Razor design and the importance of blade rigidity

[onethinline]

Reading up on SE razors (injectors, specifically), I kept seeing folks mention the advantage of the stiffer SE blades, which, like a good straight razor, create less chatter and stand up better to whiskers. In fact, some folks liken a good SE set-up to something approaching an SR shave, only much easier.

It struck me that part of a slant's effectiveness is that it torques the DE blade, making it stiffer, and somewhat overcoming the thinness of a DE blade. That, combined with the shearing angle of a slant, makes for a smooth, chatter-free shave (at least for me).

Since the slant is so good at this, why is it my Wolfman razor feels just as smooth and efficient as my ATT S2? Looking closer at the Wolfman design, it's clear that the blade is held very firmly on either side by a wide contact point of the cap, and it's pretty close to the edge. The Wolfman head clamps down on the blade in such a way that it must be more rigid than usual. I think this is a key virtue of that razor.

Looking at my other DE razors I noticed that the ones I like best, like the Wolfman or my NEW SC, are designed to tighten onto the blade close to the cutting edge. Others, like the Progress and the R41, leave a lot more "flop" room between where the cap clamps and the edge. Notably, for me, the R41, compared to the Wolfman or NEW, is a chattering, "scraping" experience (I do get close shaves from it, but it's not particularly smooth or pleasant).

With DE razors we tend to focus a lot on blade gap and exposure when it comes to aggressiveness and efficiency, but I'm wondering if we should pay as much attention to how much rigidity the razor gives the blade. At least for me with my coarse whiskers, it seems to make quite a difference.

 

[pbrmhl]

I think this is a great point. This may also explain the chatter of the Ikon Tech and, particularly, the 2011 version of the R41, which has a narrower top cap and base plate than the 2013 version.

 

[rabidus]

The NEW SC is my favorite because of its design. I have coarse hair in many areas and the SC mows them down without a problem. An added plus is that blades last longer for me. The postwar Tech is mild, but it shares the same baseplate design as the SC.

 

[nemo]

The postwar Tech is mild, but it shares the same baseplate design as the SC.

Hmm, I'm gonna have to think on that one for a bit. My recollection is they're different designs.

 

[speedwell]

Reading up on SE razors (injectors, specifically), I kept seeing folks mention the advantage of the stiffer SE blades, which, like a good straight razor, create less chatter and stand up better to whiskers. In fact, some folks liken a good SE set-up to something approaching an SR shave, only much easier.

It struck me that part of a slant's effectiveness is that it torques the DE blade, making it stiffer, and somewhat overcoming the thinness of a DE blade. That, combined with the shearing angle of a slant, makes for a smooth, chatter-free shave (at least for me).

Since the slant is so good at this, why is it my Wolfman razor feels just as smooth and efficient as my ATT S2? Looking closer at the Wolfman design, it's clear that the blade is held very firmly on either side by a wide contact point of the cap, and it's pretty close to the edge. The Wolfman head clamps down on the blade in such a way that it must be more rigid than usual. I think this is a key virtue of that razor.

Looking at my other DE razors I noticed that the ones I like best, like the Wolfman or my NEW SC, are designed to tighten onto the blade close to the cutting edge. Others, like the Progress and the R41, leave a lot more "flop" room between where the cap clamps and the edge. Notably, for me, the R41, compared to the Wolfman or NEW, is a chattering, "scraping" experience (I do get close shaves from it, but it's not particularly smooth or pleasant).

With DE razors we tend to focus a lot on blade gap and exposure when it comes to aggressiveness and efficiency, but I'm wondering if we should pay as much attention to how much rigidity the razor gives the blade. At least for me with my coarse whiskers, it seems to make quite a difference.

I can't comment on SEs since I've never used one, but I agree with what you say about DEs. To my mind, more rigid blades work better in razors that have more blade exposure. Feathers, which I think of as flexible, do not work as well for me in my R41 as certain blades that I consider to be rigid such as Derbys or Dorcos

 

[rabidus]

Hmm, I'm gonna have to think on that one for a bit. My recollection is they're different designs.

SC is OC and the postwar Tech is SB, but they both support the the blade the same way. The prewar Tech has a baseplate design like the NEW LC.

 

[kingfisher]

May be some truth to this.

Of all the DE razors I've ever used, the ones that clamp the blade the most firmly are the Feather AS-D2, the Tradere, and my Hybrid Tech (it's like a raised flat-bottom NEW but with a safety bar instead of a open comb). Solid shaves with all three.

I don't think it has that much to do with the blade gap, per se. I think it's likely due to small blade EXPOSURE, rather than to small blade gap. For example, the gap on the Tradere is HUGE. The gap on the AS-D2 is much larger than people think it is, but the razor is mild because of small exposure. Razors with small exposure generally support the blade along its long edge very close to the edge, which is what provides absolute stability.

 

[Reevers]

If you've ever shaved with a Gillette adjustable WITHOUT putting on the final 1/4 turn, you will know the importance of blade rigidity & reducing chatter, ouch!

 

[onethinline]

If you've ever shaved with a Gillette adjustable WITHOUT putting on the final 1/4 turn, you will know the importance of blade rigidity & reducing chatter, ouch!

This is a great point! I didn't know about the final quarter turn when using my Fatboy, but DID add the final turn with the Slim I received the other week, and the shaves with the Slim have felt smooth and solid. Maybe not QUITE as solid as with the Wolfman or NEW SC, but still.

I really do think the rigidity given to the blade by a razor design is key. Interesting to evaluate this aspect in our favorite razors and how it tracks with how they feel shaving.

 

[Labarum]

It struck me that part of a slant's effectiveness is that it torques the DE blade, making it stiffer, and somewhat overcoming the thinness of a DE blade. That, combined with the shearing angle of a slant, makes for a smooth, chatter-free shave (at least for me).

I have long thought that the twist in the blade must increase its rigidity, and that may have as great an effect as the slicing action.

And look at the deep slots in the safety bar. Should we think of the Merkur Slant as a semi open comb razor?

 

[Cash_Stronomer]

Makes perfect sense to me!

 

[BigJ]

Interesting suggestion! Thanks.

Will look forward to seeing what some of the more mechanical types think.

 

[Red Rider]

Blade stabilization was a key design of the Gillette Tech razor. I feel the difference in the shave between a razor that stabilizes a blade well vs one that does not regardless of blade gap. Slanted heads do aide in blade rigidity as well as thicker blades such as injector and Gem blades. Harder to engineer in non slant razors that use today's thinner DE blades. Can be found on some vintage razors and better modern ones made of better materials.
Great post and a good read thanks.

 

[poikkeus]

Of the few razors I've had (ATT, Gillette NEW, Gillette Red Tip, Gillette Aristocrat Junior, and a few others), there are two stages in loading a blade. (1) Insert the blade, and (2) closing the housing so the blade is held rigid and flexed. It's assumed that the blade isn't going to move, since it's clamped into place and flexed.

I've not experienced any razors where the blade isn't flexed. For many razors, it's integral to the success of a shave. (Carts avoid the problem, since the blades never flex.) So I agree: rigidity of the blade is essential. A blade shouldn't flex or bend once it's loaded into a razor.

Which razors don't have this feature?

 

[onethinline]

What I'm proposing (this is just me postulating, really!) is that while yes, nearly every DE razor flexes the blade, it may matter how much play is left between where the blade is clamped by the razor and the cutting edge. A slant can get around this because torquing the blade offers a lot of rigidity, but other razors differ in how much play or "flap" they leave between the clamp point and the edge. My theory is this explains why designs like the Wolfman, the NEW, or slants feel smoother, less chattering, than razors like my R41 or Progress, which hold the blade further back.

 

[CamberwellCarrot]

Would a shim under the blade not serve to effectively stiffen the cutting blade and thereby reduce chatter, though possibly at the expense of increasing the blade gap? Each razor might need to have its shim(s) finely tuned for width however. What's the thinnest blade available which could be used as a shim?

 

[poikkeus]

I think I understand the point better now.

This is well worth investigating, though it's very difficult to validate.

 

[JohnG10]

Some straight razor info may help add some insights to this discussion

Straight razors with an extra hollow grind flex more at the edge (while shaving) than hollow grinds, which flex more than half Hollow grinds, which flex more than wedge grinds.

When the edge on a straight razor deflects a tiny bit while shaving hairs, it gives more skin irritation (since it always deflects along the hair shaft, the direction the hair shaft is sloped - which is always towards the skin.

However, if you adjust the angle a straight razor sits against your skin, then you can get the cutting action 100% aligned with the blade (edge to spine) so no deflection happens with even the thinnest grinds.

The thicker (less flexible) grinds are a lot easier for a beginner to use - because they are more tolerant of missing the perfect angle by small amounts. This deflection is what causes chatter in a DE.

For a DE - if you get the blade to skin angle just right - you won't get any chatter even when the blade isn't particularly rigid. For example, I routinely adjust the aggressiveness of the vintage Gillette 3 piece razors by loosening the handle so the blade exposure and gap is bigger (and the blade flex is a lot less). I have no chatter even when the handle is just barely compressing the blade.

YMMV - I shaved daily with straight razors for 6 years before trying a DE. IMO DEs are waaaay more convenient, shave 5% faster, and shave 90% as close - and can get just as close with an extra pass and touch-ups.

 

[onethinline]

Great addition to the discussion, John, thanks! I definitely find that irritation follows "chatter" from the blade, so what you describe would make sense. My one foray into straight razor shaving involved a hollow grind (not sure how hollow) razor, and I remember the chattering feeling being surprising, but I doubtless had not mastered the angle.

 

[Doublesharp]

Granddad had this three piece Gillette that he had ground down a blade for and used it as a shim with it. Not sure if he put it on top or below the full sized blade. Seems like below.

Never tried it, but i have the razor.

Another hot towel for my friend here,
Doublesharp