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Gillette Serial Number Anomaly - Dating issue

Last night I just noticed that my two cases with the slide latches, ( Double Ring and Early 1905 Single Ring), which have the same ful info. on the bottom are actually different sizes! The Double Ring Case is larger, taller and has a thicker top lid. Both cases have the 3 Hole Blade Stamp with the $5.00 Price and the 12 Blade Info. on the bottom. I showed the pictures of my Early Single Ring, and now want to discuss my Double Ring. I acquired it nearly a year ago on "The Bay". It is "THAT RAZOR" which has been discussed on B&B since about 2010. It has a "C" Prefix on the Inner Barrel. (C 53742). There has been various discussions about this; as to whether it is a Real 1905 DR or a Mixed Matched Razor. There were also ideas, that perhaps it came from the 1906 Montreal Plant. The tooling on the "C" seems to be unique, and the last letters placed on the barrel were the B series for U.S. Single Rings. I believe it to be the Real Thing, from all I have read. The TTO knob shows more use, but I have seen some DR'S with way more wear on the knob than the handle. If it is decided to not be the Real Thing, it is still a razor in great shape that I used today to shave with. I would welcome more input on this. Here are some pictures of the two sets, and the size difference of the cases.
Tommy, these did not have TTO knobs, they had Barrel handle end knobs. The cases seem to be different for the Single Ring most likely for economic reasons. The size difference of the razors dont seem to be significant for Gillette to alter the size unless the were trying to save on case materials.

What do you mean by " The tooling on the "C" seems to be unique, and the last letters placed on the barrel were the B series for U.S. Single Rings"

Are you saying the markings of the numbers were identical to the Single rings numbers so it may be mis-matched barrels?
 
I showed the pictures of my Early Single Ring, and now want to discuss my Double Ring. I acquired it nearly a year ago on "The Bay". It is "THAT RAZOR" which has been discussed on B&B since about 2010. It has a "C" Prefix on the Inner Barrel. (C 53742). There has been various discussions about this; as to whether it is a Real 1905 DR or a Mixed Matched Razor. There were also ideas, that perhaps it came from the 1906 Montreal Plant. The tooling on the "C" seems to be unique, and the last letters placed on the barrel were the B series for U.S. Single Rings. I believe it to be the Real Thing, from all I have read.

Any chance that you could post a closer photo of the serial number? I think I remember back when that razor came up before, but I don't recall actually seeing any good shots of the stamping. The look of the inner barrel itself there in your photo, does generally seem to be in keeping with the Double Ring. The difference in wear doesn't really seem all that strange to me. I've seen plenty of razors with knobs that are more worn than the rest, but it does make sense considering how much contact it would have taken, especially back when guys had to take the blade out and dry after every shave.

The Montreal plant does seem to have done standard Single Rings with a "C" prefix on the inner barrel, like this one here in this thread. So a barrel swap is still a reasonable possibility, too.
 
Hi; I got mixed up when I used the abbreviated Term for "Twist to Open," which pertains primarily to One Piece Razors. Sorry, I meant to say, that the inner barrel knob of this 3 piece razor, showed more wear than the rest of it. I have seen this many times before, where the handle has much more silver than the knob at the end of the inner barrel. As far as the tooling goes or stamping of the "C", it looked a little different than the "C" stamped on the top of the blade guard of the Single Ring Razors from say 1911. The razor is very clean, and I believe it to be a real Double Ring. I can't see someone adding a controversial inner barrel, to the Double Ring Handle , and Silver Head of this piece of early shaving history. Some of the more knowledgeable members have stated their views on this set in the past, and many believe that it is not a mismatched Razor, and compared it to other strange examples owned by prominent members.
 
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I will try to post clearer pictures of this set. Also, where would one find a inner barrel with a "C" on it, if as the members state, that" B" was the last letter stamped on the the inner barrel, before the later letters appeared on the top of the blade guard.
 
Here are a few more pictures; 3 of the inner barrel. I hope these are a little clearer. $IMG_0652.jpg$IMG_0653.jpg$IMG_0655.jpg$IMG_0654.jpg
 
Hi; I just looked at the Canadian Single Ring inner barrel on the example you sent, and the "C" looks very plain compared to the one on my Double Ring inner barrel. The one on mine seems more elaborate, for lack of a better word. It looks like it came from a different stamp or tool. Has anyone seen this type of "C" before?
 
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Hi; I hope the new pictures, that I posted yesterday 10-21-13, of the set and inner barrel (especially the design of that particular "C,") can help determine what this actually is?(Double Ring or Mixed Set).
 
I am just wondering, that if many of the highly regarded members of B&B believe that 1905, was the date of the first Single Rings; then, could it also be possible that some of these had come in the Double Ring Cases. By this I mean with the Three Hole Blade Picture, the Price of $5.00, and the 12 Blade information on the bottom. Could the other cases with just the blade picture stamped on the bottom, have come a little later on?
That is possible since the cases were interchangeable at some time;

$sing1.JPG
 
I just noticed a 1906 French Advertisement on Ebay for a Gillette Double Ring Razor. The ad is entitled "Rasoir de Surete", Gillette Safety Razor. I just wonder if maybe these double rings advertised abroad, could have a letter Prefix, along with the numbers, as mine does. I would welcome all input on this. This is the first time I ever saw such a 1906 ad from another country, for a Double ring. I am hoping that mine will be considered the Real Thing; however, if not then, so be it.
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I read somewhere in this thread someone made the statement "if it doesn't have pic's it never happened". I was saying that that particular statement is a load of crap. Just because a person has not uploaded photos, it doesn't mean the item, or event, or whatever, does not exist. I should not have posted anything, and I'm sorry if I caused any problems by posting my sentiments.
 
I read somewhere in this thread someone made the statement "if it doesn't have pic's it never happened". I was saying that that particular statement is a load of crap. Just because a person has not uploaded photos, it doesn't mean the item, or event, or whatever, does not exist. I should not have posted anything, and I'm sorry if I caused any problems by posting my sentiments.
You have not caused any issues, i was just curious about the pics that you referred to.
 
Hi; I posted what I think are better pictures, as you asked for, and wondered if you or any one else, has seen an inner barrel with a "C" stamped in the exact style as this. The funny thing is, this razor has resided and been sold exclusively in Canada, until, I got a hold of it early this year. It has the Nov. 04 (US), as opposed to any Canadian markings. I read your 2011 thread on this razor, and found it to be very possible and probable. This was under "Double Ring with Serial "C". I am hopping a consensus can decide something as to the veracity of this item! I believe also, that this could have been a part of a production of Double Rings involving both Chicago and Montreal.
 
I just noticed a 1906 French Advertisement on Ebay for a Gillette Double Ring Razor. The ad is entitled "Rasoir de Surete", Gillette Safety Razor. I just wonder if maybe these double rings advertised abroad, could have a letter Prefix, along with the numbers, as mine does. I would welcome all input on this. This is the first time I ever saw such a 1906 ad from another country, for a Double ring. I am hoping that mine will be considered the Real Thing; however, if not then, so be it.
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Gillette was working a Patent in France to prevent lapse, that means that Gillette had to prove that they were making razors/blades in that country they are in [ France] The Patent lapse time is usually within 3 years. The deadline for Gillette was end of 1905. Gillette quickly found a factory make razors/blades to prevent the Patent lapse. But the French did not believe this, they knew Gillette was doing a StopGag to prevent the Patent lapse. Gillette was out and had to leave and go to another French location where they made mainly blades and not Double Rings.

I think that this Double Ring advertising was just for show and not real. Gillette most likely did this to show the French government that were makng razors there in order to prevent the Patent lapse. Gillette in France most likely did not have the expensive razor production machinery to make razors.
 
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When you stated that the inner barrel, "seems to be in keeping with the Double Ring", did it have to do with the size, or shape? Another thing I forgot to mention, is that when I put the Double Ring in question on a digital scale, it always weighs at least 1 gram less than my 1905 Single Ring or any of my other Single Rings. My scale is not the greatest, but these are the readings I get every time. I noticed that Achim's Double Ring is a gram less than his 1905 Single Ring also.
 
Can someone please show me something with this type of "C" located on the inner barrel? As I mentioned earlier, the illustrations given, look very plain and not as wide or elaborate as the "C" shown in my picture. I know that this "Double Ring" Razor was sold at least twice in Montreal, over the past couple or years. Hope to get more input as to this razor's validity as a "Rare" type of Double Ring, or a" Partial" Double Ring with an added Single Ring Barrel!!!!!!
 
Can someone please show me something with this type of "C" located on the inner barrel? As I mentioned earlier, the illustrations given, look very plain and not as wide or elaborate as the "C" shown in my picture. I know that this "Double Ring" Razor was sold at least twice in Montreal, over the past couple or years. Hope to get more input as to this razor's validity as a "Rare" type of Double Ring, or a" Partial" Double Ring with an added Single Ring Barrel!!!!!!
What you want to know requires actual other razors with the C and other factors that many here dont have in this present time. Gillette made variations on numbers and letters due to tech errors or other uncontrollable factors. Your razor can be that result of those issues.

What we provide here would be theories or educated guesses that can atleast give you a sense of the date of production. But when it comes to number anomalies or exact razor specs, that may entail many intrinsic investigations or razor comparisons to validate the theories or guesses. Due to the lack of production models or historical resources we can not ascertain or give you any more than what we can look into. I do not want to give any misleading info, but on the other hand i can tell you what we have to go on with the limited resources that we have on Gillette DD razor production history.
 
Thank you very much Alex for your frank and informative answer. I really do appreciate this; and, I too can't wait until tomorrow to shave again!
 
Thank you very much Alex for your frank and informative answer. I really do appreciate this; and, I too can't wait until tomorrow to shave again!

Tommy, I too can't wait for tomorrow to come not only so i can shave again, but also maybe another C dated razor or other razor info may come up that can help you or other members that seek answers to Gillette's many mysterious razor or dating questions.:thumbup1:
 
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