Head-to-Head Mystic Water vs RazoRock Artisan!

[JCinPA]

Well, I am really excited about this! My favorite soap at the moment is RazoRock Artisan Line Mughetto di Bologna (Lilly of the Valley scent). I got a sample of the Mystic Water soap in a now discontinued (for good reason) scent from another B&Ber a couple weeks ago and was pretty impressed, but it's hard to lather small soap samples. Michelle from Mystic Waters spotted the thread and offered to send me a puck to do a review with! Very nice! She was playing around with Tea Tree oil and some other things in the first sample and I thought it smelled like Mr. Clean. She emailed me that was an early experiment and she offered the Lilly of the Valley and I jumped on it.

The right way to do this, in my opinion, is to give it a decent trial period, especially if it is new to you and you are comparing it to an old favorite. So I am going to do at least a two week, every-other-day comparison between her Lilly of the Valley scent and the RazoRock MdB!

I like to do a trial run or two lathering a soap before shaving with it so I get to understand it. I think that, in general, many of us over think the lathering process, and it is kind of a "Just Do It!" kind of thing. Use a lot of product, and play with it a bit. So I did that tonight.

First off, the scent is phenomenal! It does smell similar to the RR, but it is stronger. The RR is not different, really, just more subdued. The Mystic Water Lilly of the Valley scent is intoxicating, I love it! Like my first experience with the samples, though, I found it to be a bit more airy than RR. My first thought was, "This tub is way too small!" I don't know why the Italian soft soap makers use such small tubs, but part of the genius of the RR line, IMO, is the tubs are 2-3X larger than the soaps. Michelle enclosed a lathering instruction card and it basically what we call here "Marco's Method", and that is very sloppy with Cella or Proraso or Omega. I found the same thing with the Mystic Water, which comes in a tub that just contains the soap puck. So my first test lather was a bit thin and airy with this one. The RR tubs are hands-down the best containers for lathering soft soaps with a wet brush. For the extra 25 cents it might cost for a larger plastic tub, I would recommend all manufacturers use bigger ones.

So I cleaned up a Rubbermaid tub and transferred the soap to that, and tried it again, using my favorite, custom King1976 made 24mm silvertip badger brush. MUCH better. I soaked the brush, gave it a couple gentle pumps, and loaded for about a minute. Much more like the RR experience, but then when adding water I went too far and it was thin and airy. So I started lathering it on my palm, pushing it into the scuttle, whipping it then lathering on my palm some more, and eventually I was rewarded with a wonderful laterh. Not, perhaps as dense as the RR, but close. And I am dialing it in, so I think I'll be able to do a good comparison over the next couple weeks. Here is the scuttle, some later on my hand that has been sitting for a few minutes and the rubbermaid tub behind it.

Holy cow, is this stuf SLICK!!! Like buttered ice. So tomorrow, the comparison begins, I will start with an Omega boar and the razor will be my ONLY razor (gasp! yes I do not rotate!), an EJ DE89 head on a Bob's Razor Works XXL handle. I put my last Personna Lab blade in it this morning, so I will be on shave #2 with one of my favorite blades. I will finish this week out with that blade, alternating soaps every morning. Next week I will use my standard Gillette Super Platinum Black (Indian) blades. If I do a third week, I'll use a vintage NOS Schick Plus Platinum.

As I mentioned, the RR MdB is my current favorite soap, and having a nearly identical scent will make it a fairer comparison because scent can influence our subjective experience so much. I will give it enough time that I am as facile with the Mystic Water as I am with the RR, also in the interest of making a fair comparison. Then I will send the remainder off to our resident Italian soft soap guru, Marco for further testing! It's just not right to keep an entire puck intended as a sample, so I will get it off the real expert when I am done. I will be curious to see what I get next for that tub, more RR or the MW! I honestly don't know right now.

Many thanks to Michelle of Mystic Waters, and I am really, really looking forward to this. First shave with the MW is Tuesday, March 27! Stay tuned!

 

[brucered]

looking forward to your hands on test....i'll be tuned in!

 

[VT_Hokie]

Very nice, can't wait to see the results!

 

[celestino]

Looking forward to the results. Enjoy.

 

[MeanGene]

Ditto everyone else. I haven't tried any Mystic Waters yet, and with the mad props going around, it becomes more difficult to not buy a bunch. I am looking forward to your testing!

 

[5savages]

Ditto everyone else. I haven't tried any Mystic Waters yet, and with the mad props going around, it becomes more difficult to not buy a bunch. I am looking forward to your testing!

Go for it. It's easier to buy it than to resist, and then the temptation will be gone.

 

[barneykiller]

If Razorock dosent win I call shenanigans! I'm kidding but I really love my RR Artisan. May the best soap win!
And I love the Lilly of the Valley scent as well! *high five* if I can buy another Lilly of the valley scented soap I will. I already have Muguet de france on order (after finishing the first tub) and am working on my Mughetto di Bologna.
Annnnd I found the ordering page. One Muguet please!

 

[JCinPA]

I love my RR, too, the MdB has been my top pick for 6 months now. But I am determined to give this two weeks to make it a fair heads-up. Many have posted it took them a little while to figure out how to lather QCS and now it is one of their favorites, so I am going to master this new soap. I want to make sure I am comparing soap, not lather skills, although ease in lathering is a quality we rank soaps by, to be sure. I'm off to the shower, then the sink, gents. Be back shortly!

 

[Easttexasman]

I started using Mystic Water soap samples a week ago. The coconut soap scent is just fantastic and it has a performance to match the scent.

 

[brucered]

I started using Mystic Water soap samples a week ago. The coconut soap scent is just fantastic and it has a performance to match the scent.

i love the scent, but couldn't get it to lather properly. when i bowl lathered, it was too airy and disappeared from pass to pass. when i face lathered, it dried out on my face, unless i rushed the shave. my test lathers looked great, but i have no idea if they were stable enough to last for 3pass shaves. my 2 or 3 shaves with it were irritated, left my face with weepers and irritation and not enjoyable or good shaves, which is why i do this.

i had such high hopes for it, as others were getting fantastic results and the MW scents are just unbelievable, so i'm looking forward to seeing how 2 weeks with it (during this test) will go for the John (the OP). i'm sure i'll revisit in the in the future, but for now, my face just can't take too many bad shaves in a row, before i throw in the towel, as i have too many products i know i can get to work.

i wish and hope continued success for Michelle and Mystic Water as she has some of the best customer service out, some amazing smelling soaps and listens to what B&B members are giving as feedback and i hope to be able to revisit it in the future.

 

[Easttexasman]

i love the scent, but couldn't get it to lather properly. when i bowl lathered, it was too airy and disappeared from pass to pass. when i face lathered, it dried out on my face, unless i rushed the shave. my test lathers looked great, but i have no idea if they were stable enough to last for 3pass shaves. my 2 or 3 shaves with it were irritated, left my face with weepers and irritation and not enjoyable or good shaves, which is why i do this.

i had such high hopes for it, as others were getting fantastic results and the MW scents are just unbelievable, so i'm looking forward to seeing how 2 weeks with it (during this test) will go for the John (the OP). i'm sure i'll revisit in the in the future, but for now, my face just can't take too many bad shaves in a row, before i throw in the towel, as i have too many products i know i can get to work.

i wish and hope continued success for Michelle and Mystic Water as she has some of the best customer service out, some amazing smelling soaps and listens to what B&B members are giving as feedback and i hope to be able to revisit it in the future.

My first couple of shaves with this soap the lather was pretty thin on the second and third pass. I was putting my brush is my scuttle with hot water and that was thinning out the lather. Now I just skip the scuttle and the lather is thick thru the entire shave.

It is a great soap but it does not like heat.

 

[5savages]

I got a sample of the Mystic Water soap in a now discontinued (for good reason) scent from another B&Ber a couple weeks ago and was pretty impressed, but it's hard to lather small soap samples.

I'm curious...which scent was discontinued, and why?

 

[cvac]

I ordered a puck of lime from them recently. You may see it show up in an "artisan soap highlight" thread with Calani, MJ, Nanny's, and Jabonman.

 

[Phog Allen]

Michelle, you know I am in for the Lily of the Valley. Best of luck.

Cheers, Todd

 

[5savages]

When I was making the individual pucks for the first round of samples (the ones I was working on in January), I made many that I decided not to put into production I wouldn't say that they were "discontinued" because they were never made for sale, just trials. The lavender/tea tree/rose geranium blend that John didn't like was one of those but it was borrowed from a soap that I make for combination skin. YMMV with scents and my choice of which ones to go with in the end was largely based on feedback I got from my testers.

Thanks for the explanation. I was concerned that I missed something I might like.

 

[JCinPA]

When I was making the individual pucks for the first round of samples (the ones I was working on in January), I made many that I decided not to put into production I wouldn't say that they were "discontinued" because they were never made for sale, just trials. The lavender/tea tree/rose geranium blend that John didn't like was one of those but it was borrowed from a soap that I make for combination skin. YMMV with scents and my choice of which ones to go with in the end was largely based on feedback I got from my testers.

Yes, I did not mean to be overly critical of the scent, because it was a development product, not a final offering. And besides, some folks probably love tea tree oil! Notwithstanding the YMMV thing, however, I think it was best left as a development product.

Well, first shave is out of the way, and I am very happy! I will get into details below, but first a note about how I will proceed. Some have found this to be thin and airy, as I did on my first shave with a sample chunk. THAT WAS NOT THE CASE THIS MORNING. And that is precisely why I am going to do at least a two week trial. Some folks have expressed trouble lathering Queen Charlotte or The Fat, but when they dial it in it is one of the favorite products. I think comparisons based on a favorite product and something you try 2-3 times is simply not fair. We are way too familiar with our favorites and therefore not objective enough. Therefore, you will not hear me making any comparisons between these two soaps until next week, when I am confident I have properly dialed in the Mystic Water product. Until then I will describe my impressions of each shave stand-alone. Eventually I will have to do a heads-up comparison with a conclusion, but the conclusion is a long way off and the comparisons are not until next week. Save one, which is this light and airy business.

==============================================

RazoRock Mughetto di Bologna Ingredients list:

Stearic acid, tallow, water, cocos nucifera, potassium hydroxide, sodium hydroxide, fragrance, shea butter, potassium carbonate.

Mystic Water Lilly of the Valley Ingredients list:

This is laid out in a written description, not list fashion, on a small card included with the MW soap, so I do not know if it is in order of proportionality of each ingredient.

Tallow, aloe vera leaf juice, unrefined African shea butter, avocado oil, castor oil, palm oil, glycerin, stearic acid, bentonite clay and dissolved silk.

==============================================

The Shaving Implements:

The razor will never change. I have an Edwin Jagger DE89 head mounted on a Bob's Razor Works XXL with flare end, a beast of a handle which turns the EJ head into a virtual power tool. It is my 'one razor to rule them all' and I never fiddle around with anything else.

Shave #1: An Omega 10098 Professional boar brush

and a Personna Lab blade, on shave #2. First up is the MW soap. AS splash was The Veg!

Observations:

Wow! What a scent! I had already determined that the RR MdB (also Lilly of the Valley) was one of my favorite shave scents. The MW scent is HYOOGE, in a good way. Intoxicatingly delicious. I won't compare performance impressions until next week, but the RR MdB scent is more subdued. I love them both, and they are similar scents, so this will simply be for most folks about whether you like subdued or you like to be blown away. I'm not sure how I feel about that just yet, but man, this scent was tremendous. I'm not going to describe it, Lilly of the Valley is common enough in lather products that you should have some idea. It's flowery, and I love flowery, one of my favorite creams, for example, is TOBS Rose. If you are not a Rose fan, and prefer earthy or citrus scents this may not be for you, but if you are a flowery loving guy, I think you will love this scent. I sure do.

Now about this thin and airy thing. It is true, BUT IT IS NOT DEBILITATING to the lather, if you get it right. First of all, it has been pointed out that this soap does not like heat. Neither do I. I use a scuttle, but my entire shave process is done with comfortably warm water, not hot. Hot water causes me to have an irritating shave, I just like my lather to be warm, as in not cold. So I do not believe this was the cause. The MW is airier than many other creams and soaps I have tried, it just is. But so is Provence Sante, Mama Bears, and a few others I have tried, and they are fine products. The key with something that is a little airy is to USE A TON of product. My personal opinion is most lather issues around here revolve around being too abstemious with the product and trying to stretch it with too much water. If you do that with MW (or Provence Sante, a triple milled, or Mama Bears, a melt/pour) you will have issues with disappearing lather. If you use enough product, you will be just fine.

So, I used the 'Marco Method' (which Michelle recommends on the little card that comes with the soap), loaded for a full minute in that tub you see in the photo above (Her tubs are useless for lathering, but to be fair, so are Cella's, Proraso's, Omegas, etcetera. Italian soft soap makers should take a page out of RR's book, and use their tubs, which are simply perfect for proper loading). After moving to the scuttle, and adjusting the water a bit, I got a dense thick, cushiony lather. But you can actually see the tiny bubbles with the naked eye (I wear reading glasses, but not while shaving).

After continuing to face lather a bit, I got an outstanding lather, fairly dense, and very slick indeed. No irritation at all and the razor glided very nicely indeed. Now while doing the first pass, the lather in the scuttle started to thin out a LITTLE bit. When I whipped it up briefly, it came right back to life, just like I have experienced with the aforementioned PS and MB soaps. Continuing to lather on my rinsed and wet face, it was beautiful! Each time between passes, I found that. Each time, I whipped it up to a near perfect lather which held up well on my face. So, while I did observe this to be a little airier than other soaps, it is similar in this regard to a couple others which are the same way. I think those who have complained about this either being difficult to lather or thinning on the face are using too little product, too much water, too HOT water, or some combination of the three. I don't think the soap is any less effective because of this, and it is definitely in the lather quality range of PS or MB. If you are having issues with MW, take my advice. Scoop it out of the original tub, get it in a GaldWare or Rubbermaid or Pyrex dish of sufficient size, use a good boar brush, and load that sucker up heavily! You will be rewarded and I think your opinion will change.

On the whole boar/badger thing... I have recently introduced good boars (they are not expensive at all) into my rotation for soft soaps. I love my custom silvertip shown above, but there is NO doubt in my little military mind that the boar is made for these soaps, and the badger is great with creams. I don't have a preference between brushes, per se, I like them both, but I do prefer boars with soft soaps and badger with creams. Try it, you will likely be surprised if you have not used a good boar before. But, I digress.

The Results:

A very comfortable, DFS shave, 3 passes plus touch-up. Thick, slick comfortable lather that provides plenty of glide. I form an impression of slickness as the shave progresses because I rinse out of the stoppered sink, so the water becomes progressively more soapy, but this product was plenty slick. If you are having glide issues, again, I suggest more product, and get it out of the tub into something larger and use Marco's Method. Others have commented on this soap's slickness as well, so if you are not feeling it, I respectfully suggest it is you, not the soap. You have to spend enough time with these products to dial them in.

Afterwards, as you might imagine from reading the ingredient list, my face feels fantastic! We are beyond the coldest, driest part of the winter here, and I do not have problem skin, but boy, my face looks and feels terrific. I was very happy indeed with today's shave.

I will continue with my normal 3-pass DFS daily shave this week, but next week after I am certain I have mastered lathering this like I have the RR, I will go for a BBS with both and see if I get any irritation. Today, however, none at all.


Verdict: The first shave was impressive! I'm looking forward to this. Stay tuned.

 

[brucered]

Wow John...very nice review and suggestions....

Time to give it another try, marco method (which i used 1st, then someone said less water) and load for longer (similar to MWF) and see how it goes.

i'm taking your advise on the container, switched it to an empty RR one, put on the WM lid and will try it out again. i'm off work this week, so have some extra "shave time" to work on the lather process etc.

did yet another TEST lather, in a dry scuttle, loaded for longer, 45sec or so, and have enough lather for 3 shaves, yet alone 3 passes. it's been solidly sitting in the scuttle for 10min or so and has yet to diminish or evaporate.

perhaps i jumped the gun by throwing in the towel so soon

here is a shot of my new "hybrid" container. RR bottom, MW lid. lots of room to lather in now.

 

[JCinPA]

Yes, I would, Bruce. As you know, I was cognizant of the airy thing, and I did have a little trouble with the first sample chip I used. This lather (I think) is never going to be as dense as, say, Taylor's Avocado, but I do not see that as a problem at all. It's just different. But when I got enough product on that brush, I got a great lather and a great shave.

I've found I have to 'reconstitute' the Provence Sante or the Mama Bear lather between passes, too, but this too, is not an issue. I was very happy with the shave. I am really looking forward to this, and I expect that my impressions will become more favorable, not less, as I become more adept with this product. Just a guess, but time will tell.

If you have not used a Boar, I STRONGLY suggest getting one, it makes a world of difference. I will always take my silvertip badger to my TOBS Rose or C.O. Bigelow, but this, and the other Italian soft style soaps really shine with a good boar.

I favor the Omega pro series, which are very similar knots in different handles, or the Semogue 2000. I don't think spending a lot of money on a boar (which is hard to do, but folks find a way ) pays off in a boar. But get one if you don't already have one. And despite their fans, the VDH boar that comes in their kit is simply not comparable to an Omega pro series or a Semogue 2000. You may like them, but it's just not.

Cheers

 

[5savages]

Wow! What a scent! I had already determined that the RR MdB (also Lilly of the Valley) was one of my favorite shave scents. The MW scent is HYOOGE, in a good way. Intoxicatingly delicious. I won't compare performance impressions until next week, but the RR MdB scent is more subdued. I love them both, and they are similar scents, so this will simply be for most folks about whether you like subdued or you like to be blown away. I'm not sure how I feel about that just yet, but man, this scent was tremendous. I'm not going to describe it, Lilly of the Valley is common enough in lather products that you should have some idea. It's flowery, and I love flowery, one of my favorite creams, for example, is TOBS Rose. If you are not a Rose fan, and prefer earthy or citrus scents this may not be for you, but if you are a flowery loving guy, I think you will love this scent. I sure do.

A great play-by-play, for sure!

While I agree that the MW LotV is a floral scent (obviously), I don't find it to be a feminine type of scent. I do not care for straight up rose scent in my soap, but I do LOVE this Lily of the Valley.

 

[kingfisher]

John, I would actually recommend going at this soap with a bit drier brush than you're currently using, and then adding water dropwise during the bowl portion. You can end up with a perfect lather either way, but you have to use a lot more time and a lot more product if you go at it with a wet brush a la the Marco method.

By the way, I'm the guy who wrote the lathering instructions you received.......but now I actually give a gentle squeeze to the brush before loading, and add water later, and I find the final lather is less "airy" when loaded in this fashion.

YMMV. Like I said, either way you get a great lather if you do it properly. I can just get a great lather sooner by using a slightly drier brush (not bone dry like the soap-lathering tutorial suggests, but considerably drier than the Marco method).