Shaving Soap

[MilfordNJGuy]

A few questions/remarks for the vendors/experts:

1. I understood from the tests that some soaps were more fluffy and others more oily. Would it makes sense to make a soap in such a way that one side would be used to slide on a wet beard and leave an oily film while the other side would be used to get by the brush to create a fast lather?

Advantages:
a. The oily film can soften the hair while the lather is being made
b. The lather would be easier and quicker to make with out the oil so it won't get cold by a long preparation process (beyond one minute of swirling can cool the lather a lot)
c. The oily and hydrating soap could be used after the shave as well

2. For international buyers, it would be cost effective to buy large quantity of samplers/small sized soaps (about half of what's available in hotels).

Another option that would be easier to make is soap shavings.

3. I saw on your site (MilfordNJGuy) what seemed to be brick sized soaps before cutting which can reduce the amount of work done. Selling a brick would be cost effective for people who want to cut their own sizes so once they find their favorite scent/s, they can just go ahead and buy the brick sized soaps for long term use.

4. An oil that helped me a lot with skin problems is sea buckthorn oil. Another good source is Papaya fruit and most notably the fruit skin.

Alexo,

Soap is no more than "emulsified" oils caused by the reaction between an acid (oils) and a base (lye). (Now you scientifically minded guys, bear with me as I try to explain in layman's terms) What we soap makers often do is to include a little extra oil in our formula that does react to the lye and it left behind to make the soap milder. This extra oil is referred to as "superfatting" and that actually can contribute to the slip or lubrication of the skin and beard hair especially if done in a large enough amounts. When you see a label with say "Sodium Stearate" and "Stearic Acid" both included then the Stearic acid acts in the same way as the oil you mention. The "Sodium Stearate" is a sodium salt of Stearic Acid or better called a Sodium "soap" of Stearic Acid. There are Shaving soaps on the market that do this. (I did my best, if someone wishes to add to it or explain it differently, feel free!)

Also, some soapmakers do sell bricks of soap. I don't happen to because uncut logs are not able to dry out and cure the same way as cut bars can and thereby won't last as long in usage. I hope I have answered you questions!

 

[MilfordNJGuy]

Krissy made a round log mold out of PVC pipe for her shaving soap, so she could make a log (although I don't think she sells it that way) or cut it to size. The cylindrical puck seems to work better than the rectangular one for most guys.

Thank you for your suggestion. I am currently using PVC pipe for all of my experimental batches so my finished soap samples are round 3" pucks!

 

[whiteweed]

Alexo,

"emulsified" oils caused by the reaction between an acid (oils) and a base (lye). (Now you scientifically minded guys, bear with me as I try to explain in layman's terms)

Very nice, I learned a little about this reading how to make bio diesel. On this site http://www.journeytoforever.org/ This is a very cool site, look at links on left in the red.

 

[Sue]

I'm familiar with the dovetail cut. The soap and the oil side would be of differing texture. To leave an oily film on your face, I think it would also kill the lather of an adjoining soap and gunk up your raaor. After a few uses they would not wear the same and no longer fit together.

Seriously, I am not dogging your idea. Behind every new product is an idea and probaby a few saying; 'I don't think this will work'. I may be completely off base here but I don't see how trhis would be do'able.
Sue

 

[MilfordNJGuy]

I'm familiar with the dovetail cut. The soap and the oil side would be of differing texture. To leave an oily film on your face, I think it would also kill the lather of an adjoining soap and gunk up your raaor. After a few uses they would not wear the same and no longer fit together.

Seriously, I am not dogging your idea. Behind every new product is an idea and probaby a few saying; 'I don't think this will work'. I may be completely off base here but I don't see how trhis would be do'able.
Sue

I would have to agree with Sue. There was a Patent filed in the early 1930's for a shave stick with a core of cocoa butter. Great idea but it certainly looks like it didn't catch on and most likely for the reasons Sue mentioned... Too bad, but maybe someone could find a way to come up with something like that now!

 

[Sue]

Thank you for your suggestion. I am currently using PVC pipe for all of my experimental batches so my finished soap samples are round 3" pucks!

Home Depot to the rescue. To my husbands chagrin, they even cut the PVC cut into 1 foot sections when I explained why I needed it cut up. If you insulate, the PVC is great.

I like the rectangle downspout for bath soap too.
Sue

 

[alexo]

Thanks to all the experts for your detailed answers. I learned a lot and will start my own soap business shortly (maybe next life)

I saw a store once that did sell soaps by cutting bricks to the customer's requirements. I understand it would take longer to cure but it's an Eco-friendly solution for people who want to buy for long term and cut their soaps to the size they need. Anyway, a vendor that won't offer this option, will be reported to Al Gore and Greenpeace so beware

 

[Hughies_online]

I dream of a tallow-based soap with a menthol infusion.....

 

[alexo]

Whiskey or brandy infusion for me, thanks.

 

[Stinkis]

Whiskey or brandy infusion for me, thanks.

My God! The thought of having warm lather smelling like Laphroaig in my brush is just too much!

 

[MilfordNJGuy]

Cymric,
(Since soap is not considered a cosmetic by the F.D.A., companies don't have to list their ingredients and ingredient listings can be hard to find much like ingredients for the products from Europe!)

Cymric,

What I stated above, "Since soap is not considered a cosmetic by the F.D.A." is indeed correct! However, what I didn't include is that "shaving soap" and "shave soap" are considered cosmetics by the FDA as was stated to me by a representative of the FDA on the phone today so correct labeling is very important! (Thanks to Krissy for pointing that out to me.) Packaging must include them at *** (point of sale) but apparently internet sites are not required to list them so that is why these lists are difficult to find! I just wanted to clear that up and since I could find on option to "Edit" my post I am posting the correction here.

 

[Sue]

Cymric,

What I stated above, "Since soap is not considered a cosmetic by the F.D.A." is indeed correct! However, what I didn't include is that "shaving soap" and "shave soap" are considered cosmetics by the FDA as was stated to me by a representative of the FDA on the phone today so correct labeling is very important! (Thanks to Krissy for pointing that out to me.) Packaging must include them at *** (point of sale) but apparently internet sites are not required to list them so that is why these lists are difficult to find! I just wanted to clear that up and since I could find on option to "Edit" my post I am posting the correction here.

It is my understanding that everyone who 'sells' whether it's ebay, a webstore, etc.; list their ingredients in descending order of the percent of content. The only exception to that is; 'ABC Big Bux Corporation' can go thru a very expensive legal process to be exempted by proving that their ingredients are proprietary and that they'd be damaged.

Excluding that - all sellers/vendors must, by law, list their ingredients in descending order of percentages either on the product itself or it's packaging.

Were you told by FDA specifically that internet sites do not have to comply? This goes against everything I have ever read. I would still list mine but I see many that do not or list obviously in such a way that is not compliant.

"Soap" used for anything other than cleansing (such as shaving), is considered a cosmetic so the descending ingredient rule applies.

I know of one website that was shut down about three years ago by FDA for non-compliance in labelling, at least that is what I was told.
Sue

 

[MilfordNJGuy]

It is my understanding that everyone who 'sells' whether it's ebay, a webstore, etc.; list their ingredients in descending order of the percent of content. The only exception to that is; 'ABC Big Bux Corporation' can go thru a very expensive legal process to be exempted by proving that their ingredients are proprietary and that they'd be damaged.

Excluding that - all sellers/vendors must, by law, list their ingredients in descending order of percentages either on the product itself or it's packaging.

Were you told by FDA specifically that internet sites do not have to comply? This goes against everything I have ever read. I would still list mine but I see many that do not or list obviously in such a way that is not compliant.

"Soap" used for anything other than cleansing (such as shaving), is considered a cosmetic so the descending ingredient rule applies.

I know of one website that was shut down about three years ago by FDA for non-compliance in labelling, at least that is what I was told.
Sue

Sue,

My question to the FDA was only regarding the use of the term "shave soap" or "shaving soap" and whether or not it was or was not considered a cosmetic by the FDA. It was my observation that "APPARENTLY" (which you did not "bold") "internet sites are not required to list them so that is why these lists are difficult to find!" I was just pointing out what became very obvious to me in searching on the Internet for comparison products. (I recall recently reading that packaging requires proper ingredient listing but internet sites are not required to list all ingredients. I'll try and locate that source.) Try a search and you'll see what I mean!

I use proper FDA ingredient listing for any "cosmetic" products listed on my website. The non-cosmetic items (soap) are in decending order as well so I am indeed aware of proper procedure in regard to labeling. I hope this clears things up! Thanks!

 

[krissy]

websites are not required to post the ingredient list, but many people do so customers know what is in the product they are buying. (mostly incase of allergies) but the product itself is required to have the ingredient listing as Sue described on the package itself or on the outer box that goes with the container.

It's the product itself that is important not the website description that is selling them.


That is why you find so many ebay/etsy sellers and people with websites NOT including the info on the listing. They don't have to. BUT many aren't aware that they have to follow the FDA rules either and don't have an ingredient list on the package either. After all how many healing salves/ointments are being made with healing and medical claims made in the description on ebay/etsy. (that's one of my own personal pet peeves though)

 

[Sue]

Sue,

My question to the FDA was only regarding the use of the term "shave soap" or "shaving soap" and whether or not it was or was not considered a cosmetic by the FDA. It was my observation that "APPARENTLY" (which you did not "bold") "internet sites are not required to list them so that is why these lists are difficult to find!" I was just pointing out what became very obvious to me in searching on the Internet for comparison products. (I recall recently reading that packaging requires proper ingredient listing but internet sites are not required to list all ingredients. I'll try and locate that source.) Try a search and you'll see what I mean!

I use proper FDA ingredient listing for any "cosmetic" products listed on my website. The non-cosmetic items (soap) are in decending order as well so I am indeed aware of proper procedure in regard to labeling. I hope this clears things up! Thanks!

David, I am not at all questioning you or your labelling. I hope you didn't interpret my post that way. (Your soap is awesome BTW. Now I'm 'Sophisticated'

I have searched, since reading this post, for a referance that internet sites are not required to list unsuccessfully. I never question it with the 'big nane' brands because I know they can go for the proprietary buy-out and most probably do. Customer knowledge of what they are buying is vital IMO. I see EU standards in the future.
Sue

 

[Sue]

websites are not required to post the ingredient list, but many people do so customers know what is in the product they are buying. (mostly incase of allergies) but the product itself is required to have the ingredient listing as Sue described on the package itself or on the outer box that goes with the container.

It's the product itself that is important not the website description that is selling them.


That is why you find so many ebay/etsy sellers and people with websites NOT including the info on the listing. They don't have to. BUT many aren't aware that they have to follow the FDA rules either and don't have an ingredient list on the package either. After all how many healing salves/ointments are being made with healing and medical claims made in the description on ebay/etsy. (that's one of my own personal pet peeves though)

One of mine also. Some are putting themselves into the 'drug' category with it's own set of regulations.
Sue

 

[moonshine44]

Pre de Provence has a sage bath soap that I really like. It would be cool to have a shaving soap with that same scent...

 

[krissy]

One of mine also. Some are putting themselves into the 'drug' category with it's own set of regulations.
Sue

Yep that's a whole new can of worms that most want to avoid like the plague.

 

[Jim]

David, I am not at all questioning you or your labelling. I hope you didn't interpret my post that way. (Your soap is awesome BTW. Now I'm 'Sophisticated'

I have searched, since reading this post, for a reference that internet sites are not required to list unsuccessfully. I never question it with the 'big nane' brands because I know they can go for the proprietary buy-out and most probably do. Customer knowledge of what they are buying is vital IMO. I see EU standards in the future.
Sue

We at the B&B also share some of these concerns and this was part of the reason behind this coda in the vendor rules-

Vendors should expect in-depth, specific questions about their products and be prepared to discuss manufacturing process and ingredients.

 

[MilfordNJGuy]

Sue,

No, not at all but since you brought it up, I felt I would take the opportunity to share with possible customers that I do my best to make sure that I am complient with all government rules and regulations in regards to ingredients listings. It's good business! Glad you like the "Sophisticated". I can't stop smelling the "Oakmoss Lavendula" that I purchased from you! I had to put it away! (I even tried to look up "Oakmoss Lavendula" fragrance oil! LOL It must be your own special blend! What fragrance notes does it have?)

Jim,

I appreciate the opportunity at Badger & Blade to be able to address issues like this and look forward to providing any information to anyone here who requests it.

Krissy,

Thanks for posting about ingredient listing in regard to Internet sales. I thought that was the case as was evident in my exhaustive searches for comparable ingredients listings! Do you have any link about this? I would like to look into it a bit more, thanks!