Tape or not (no, not the same old question)

[gpjoe]

This is not a "Should I use tape?" thread. I've done a search, and those threads can spiral downward quickly.

I'm new to this, and acquired two razors (full hollow) which were honed with tape. I know that I should be able to use those for a while and just use a leather strop to re-align the edges between shaves, though at some point I will need to touch up the edges on a stone or film, or send them out.

So, my question is:

If I'm going to attempt to touch up the edge myself once my strop seems ineffective (I've got some film and glass plates), do I need to tape?

It seems to me that if I don't use tape, it will require removing more material from the edge to contact the apex, which basically means resetting the bevel, correct? Which of course is more than a mere "touchup" and feels outside my current skill level.

In my case, regardless of how you feel about using tape (and I'll admit that I likely won't once I learn to hone), am I better off using tape to touch up my current razors, at least until they require a more aggressive honing?...or should I throw caution to the wind, and go back to 1k and see what I can accomplish (learn)?

 

[rbscebu]

I am no expert in using tape when honing. I do use it when I have a lot of metal to remove before finally setting a blade's initial bevel.

That being said, if I was in your position I would first give it a go without tape. It shouldn't take many laps to remove the excess steel. If that doesn't work, you can always go to using tape for the refresh.

 

[silverlifter]

I'm a newbie to honing as well, so grain of salt, etc...

My understanding is that tape is used to either protect the spine, or to change the bevel angle.

If you are touching up a razor honed with tape, I'd tape the spine. If you want to experiment with bevel setting with the other razor, you'll still have one (probably) solid edge to shave off.

You can reset the bevel with tape as well, just kill the edge and away you go.

Good luck. There is nothing more satisfying than shaving off your own edge!

 

[alex1921]

- If I am touching up a taped razor, I use tape.
- If I want to go from tape to no tape I go with a lower grit stone. Doesnt take much. E.g. a 4k shapton glass will do that quickly.
- If the razor needs some TLC I will start with tape up to 2k to remove pitting etc from the bevel and then at 4k drop the tape.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

Yes. If you're doing touchups, and they were honed with tape, use tape. If you decide you want to reset the bevel later, you can do it however you like.

Especially if you're using film, no need to put extra wear on the film (not to mention the razor).

 

[alpster]

The only legit reasons to use tape are: 1 - honing a full wedge. 2 - Protecting fancy spine work. That's it. JMHO

 

[RayClem]

If you know for certain that a blade was honed by someone else using tape, you still may not know how many layers were used and how thick the tape was that was used. It is quite common to use tape when honing vintage blades, especially when the blade and/or spice is decorated. If you know who honed the blade and they will tell you the details of the tape used, then you can use tape. The spine of a straight razor does have somewhat softer steel than the edge, so if you are not careful, you can wear down the spine excessively.

That being said, if you purchase a new razor, I would suggest that you hone it without tape. That way, you never have to worry about whether to use tape or not. If the blade was previously honed with tape, you might need to reset the bevel without tape. If you just try to refresh the edge using a finishing stone, you might not actually reach the apex., Resetting the bevel will assure you have a good apex, assuming you do it properly.

 

[gpjoe]

...If the blade was previously honed with tape, you might need to reset the bevel without tape. If you just try to refresh the edge using a finishing stone, you might not actually reach the apex., Resetting the bevel will assure you have a good apex, assuming you do it properly.

This was precisely what I thought. Without tape, the apex would never be touching the stone unless the bevel was reset.

 

[Loner16]

I used to be anti tape. But, I would always forget which razors I used tape on, and which I didn't. Consequently, today they all get a layer of tape. The Koraats come with an edge that was done with tape... I save myself trying to figure out what's what..

 

[JPO]

This was precisely what I thought. Without tape, the apex would never be touching the stone unless the bevel was reset.

"resetting" the bevel should only be needed to be done if you need to remove micro chipping or for correction work. The bevel should only have to be set once.
There is no harm in doing it. You should have enough steel in a single razor to last a life time, if done correctly.

Tape vs no tape should not make a big difference. You can correct that quite fast even on an 8k stone.
I always get the best results if i do a "deeper" refresh. The edge gets beat up from shaving and stropping. As a result the steel behind the apex gets fatigued and more brittle. When you need to refresh your edge the edge will be pushed back from shaving and convexed a little from stropping. Tape vs no tape really does not matter.

The lowest i would go for a refresh is 4k ( i prefer a 6k). That is coarse enough to get you a nice bevel in a short time.
It usually does not take much work even if you start on an 8k, however for some reason taking one extra step back seems to produce a better edge. At least that is my experience.

I would not overthink this too much. It is probably not uncommon to use a 4k as a bevel setter for razors.
Unless you are doing this professionally, the extra minutes it takes on a finer stone compared to a 1k stone really does not matter.

 

[Mr Bedlington]

My own personal take is simple if you are going to hone razors regularly including your own, which most people who own straight razors do, sometimes more out of experimentation than necessity, then at no point do you ever want to purposely change the bevel angle by removing metal from the spine, so for that reason only you should always use tape if you are not bothered by bevel angles or hone-ware to the spine then fine that's your call.

 

[gpjoe]

Well, I'm not buying or using $400 razors. So far, my "collection" consists of a few vintage razors which already exhibit some degree of wear.

To me, these razors are merely tools which I have acquired to use, not necessarily admire as collector pieces. If I do ever decide to purchase a high-dollar razor, it too would be with an eye towards using it.

I have a modest collection of firearms and watches, and use them all for their intended purpose. I never abuse my stuff. I am always careful and take great care, but I never accumulate anything strictly as an objects to be admired.

All to say: my razors will all be users, not safe queens and as such will be subjected to the customary wear and tear of such use. If that includes normal spine wear, I can live with that, especially considering that even under those conditions, the razors will still perform well and easily outlive me.

Therefore, I see no compelling argument for bothering with tape, but again this thread was not intended to discuss the merits of using tape (or not), just seeking advice on the best path forward for an amateur using razors that were honed with tape.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

You could always just ask whoever honed it before you got it. If their honing is to your liking, they will probably have the best advice on how to maintain it.

 

[gpjoe]

You could always just ask whoever honed it before you got it. If their honing is to your liking, they will probably have the best advice on how to maintain it.

Yes, I asked him after I started this thread, and he said that he taped the two that he honed.

My plan is to use those two for as long as I can keep them going with my strop and then decide how to proceed.

I have a finishing stone and some film, so I'm thinking I may try my hand at honing without taping. If I screw it up I can always send them out.

I've got an Ebay razor that I've been "practicing" on but finding that it is difficult for a n00b to master the the entire process of honing AND shaving concurrently.

 

[Mr Bedlington]

Well, I'm not buying or using $400 razors. So far, my "collection" consists of a few vintage razors which already exhibit some degree of wear.

To me, these razors are merely tools which I have acquired to use, not necessarily admire as collector pieces. If I do ever decide to purchase a high-dollar razor, it too would be with an eye towards using it.

I have a modest collection of firearms and watches, and use them all for their intended purpose. I never abuse my stuff. I am always careful and take great care, but I never accumulate anything strictly as an objects to be admired.

All to say: my razors will all be users, not safe queens and as such will be subjected to the customary wear and tear of such use. If that includes normal spine wear, I can live with that, especially considering that even under those conditions, the razors will still perform well and easily outlive me.

Therefore, I see no compelling argument for bothering with tape, but again this thread was not intended to discuss the merits of using tape (or not), just seeking advice on the best path forward for an amateur using razors that were honed with tape.

If as you say you are not at all bothered with wear and tear, I see no point in your question to start with, just set a new bevel and hone it to your liking, no point in asking the previous guy who honed the razor if he taped it or not, to me it seems like a pointless post.

 

[gpjoe]

If as you say you are not at all bothered with wear and tear, I see no point in your question to start with, just set a new bevel and hone it to your liking, no point in asking the previous guy who honed the razor if he taped it or not, to me it seems like a pointless post.

Easy for someone who likely possesses the experience required to hone a razor. I'm still finding my way.

Sorry to have put you out, I was merely looking for guidance on what would be the best course for someone just starting out. I'm rolling the dice every time i take a razor to any type of hone, be it a strop, stone, or film.

I figured that just for a touchup that the best route would be tape (since they were honed with tape), and merely wanted to confirm that with the smarter people, like you.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Mr Bedlington]

Easy for someone who likely possesses the experience required to hone a razor. I'm still finding my way.

Sorry to have put you out, I was merely looking for guidance on what would be the best course for someone just starting out. I'm rolling the dice every time i take a razor to any type of hone, be it a strop, stone, or film.

I figured that just for a touchup that the best route would be tape (since they were honed with tape), and merely wanted to confirm that with the smarter people, like you.

Thanks for the input.

I'm not trying to come across as sarcastic, I'm just trying to be helpful, if as you say the razors are not that expensive, and you are not that concerned about a little hone-wear, then now would be the perfect opportunity being fairly new to the game to try your hand at resetting the bevel and trying to walk them through a progression to a shave-ready finish.

 

[ZeelandsRoem]

I was merely looking for guidance on what would be the best course for someone just starting out. I'm rolling the dice every time i take a razor to any type of hone, be it a strop, stone, or film.

My advice is to try to hone them without tape. Since they are inexpensive razors, it's good to learn how much pressure on the spine is too much (or too little). If the razor/s are messed up, then it's not a big loss and you can get other razor/s. But in the beginning I'd say try to use very little to no pressure and see how things work.

Alternatively, you can also use tape and evolve from there, but eventually it's good to learn both ways (tape and no tape) and use them to your advantage when necessary.

Or get some Gold Dollars and experiment until you get good results and you're confident to hone your current razors.

 

[steveclarkus]

This is not a "Should I use tape?" thread. I've done a search, and those threads can spiral downward quickly.

I'm new to this, and acquired two razors (full hollow) which were honed with tape. I know that I should be able to use those for a while and just use a leather strop to re-align the edges between shaves, though at some point I will need to touch up the edges on a stone or film, or send them out.

So, my question is:

If I'm going to attempt to touch up the edge myself once my strop seems ineffective (I've got some film and glass plates), do I need to tape?

It seems to me that if I don't use tape, it will require removing more material from the edge to contact the apex, which basically means resetting the bevel, correct? Which of course is more than a mere "touchup" and feels outside my current skill level.

In my case, regardless of how you feel about using tape (and I'll admit that I likely won't once I learn to hone), am I better off using tape to touch up my current razors, at least until they require a more aggressive honing?...or should I throw caution to the wind, and go back to 1k and see what I can accomplish (learn)?

I don't use tape - ever (except once on a wedge I honed for someone else). If you use tape, you will need to use it every time you do a touchup. Razors were designed to hone just on the spine. The spine and edge will wear at the same time and maintain a consistent bevel. Using tape will affect the geometry as the edge will be wearing while the spine is not. I know there are many who use tape but I am not one of them but to each his own.

 

[gpjoe]

I'm not trying to come across as sarcastic, I'm just trying to be helpful, if as you say the razors are not that expensive, and you are not that concerned about a little hone-wear, then now would be the perfect opportunity being fairly new to the game to try your hand at resetting the bevel and trying to walk them through a progression to a shave-ready finish.

No problem. I'm just trying to find my way and hoping to avoid any pitfalls by taking advantage of the vast experience and knowledge here. My questions may seem basic, obvious, or even redundant, and I may think I know the answer based on pure geometry or logic, but it's reassuring to know that I'm not going too far off the reservation.