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Jay21's Journey Journal

That area is a vortex of defeat where any dreams of BBS go to die.

Not to trivialize your misfortune but this made me laugh out loud. Very well put. Clearly, a great many shavers struggle here so be not dismayed...you're in excellent company.

FWIW, much progress is apparent here. You do seem well on your way towards nailing a comfortable and repeatable experience. Paying close attention is certainly at least half of it and your level of awareness suggests you'll have it sooner rather than later.

As for the burn, the potential causes are numerous. In your case, it may be pressure. It may be the Nacet, the Old Spice, the phase of the moon, ad nauseum. It can be, and often is, a frustratingly opaque situation. As always, the best advice remains changing as few things as possible in order to determine the culprit.

Incidentally, in my personal experience the burn has arisen most often due to:

1) inadequate prep
2) too much blade time (passes, buffing, touch-up)
3) both
 
Not to trivialize your misfortune but this made me laugh out loud. Very well put. Clearly, a great many shavers struggle here so be not dismayed...you're in excellent company.

FWIW, much progress is apparent here. You do seem well on your way towards nailing a comfortable and repeatable experience. Paying close attention is certainly at least half of it and your level of awareness suggests you'll have it sooner rather than later.

As for the burn, the potential causes are numerous. In your case, it may be pressure. It may be the Nacet, the Old Spice, the phase of the moon, ad nauseum. It can be, and often is, a frustratingly opaque situation. As always, the best advice remains changing as few things as possible in order to determine the culprit.

Incidentally, in my personal experience the burn has arisen most often due to:

1) inadequate prep
2) too much blade time (passes, buffing, touch-up)
3) both
Thank you. You’re spot on. The extra blade time surely made an impact this morning. I’m usually a two-pass shaver. In the past, two passes with any DE razor would cause burn, and the worst was with the 6c. I’ve made progress in many areas, but I have yet to master the third pass and pressure. I’ll build up to it.
 
I took Sunday off from shaving to let the burn heal. Today's shave was rather unremarkable. Two passes (WTG, XTG) with touch up using the Rockwell 6c with the R4 plate. The Nacet blade was on its second shave. More stubble feel than I would prefer, but I didn't want to risk further irritating my face after Saturday's shave. I did manage to reopen the nick on my Adam's apple, though. That needs more time to heal.

I think I really need to master the ATG because that's the only way to get the closest shave. Today was a SAS, but at least there was no irritation.

WTG really doesn't remove much, so I may experiment in the future with my first pass being XTG and then finishing with ATG. We'll see. I'll have to work up to that.

In other news, I'm loving the brush loading technique instead of flaking soap into the bowl.
 
at least there was no irritation.

Congrats! 🏆

Others may have different standards but for me the above is the target.

Any time I drag sharp steel across my face and emerge comfortable, well...that's a win.

Regarding closeness, IMHO there is a limit to what can be achieved with that's day combination of gear and experience. Respecting that limit almost always results in a good time, albeit with perhaps more stubble remaining than was hoped for.

Going progressively closer and closer without stepping over the line requires careful judgement and an ever-increasing familiarity with your setup and, especially, your face.

Having said all that, I'll readily admit that the limit is not always easy to spot. But take heart, it does become more apparent as the subtleties and nuances make themselves known to you over time. 👍
 
Congrats! 🏆

Others may have different standards but for me the above is the target.

Any time I drag sharp steel across my face and emerge comfortable, well...that's a win.

Regarding closeness, IMHO there is a limit to what can be achieved with that's day combination of gear and experience. Respecting that limit almost always results in a good time, albeit with perhaps more stubble remaining than was hoped for.

Going progressively closer and closer without stepping over the line requires careful judgement and an ever-increasing familiarity with your setup and, especially, your face.

Having said all that, I'll readily admit that the limit is not always easy to spot. But take heart, it does become more apparent as the subtleties and nuances make themselves known to you over time. 👍
As always, thanks to you and everyone else for the advice and encouragement. I was explaining to my girlfriend the other day that I joined an online community that is helping me figure out DE shaving. Her first reaction was, "Didn't cavemen shave with sharp rocks?" But, she is very supportive and appreciates the closer shaves that I've been getting.

In other news, a bit of disappointment. I thought I'd treat myself to a Henson AL13++ to see what the buzz was all about and to see if the fixed shaving angle would help me, but it arrived with a defect. The threads on the cap are missing a decent chunk. I contacted the seller and I'm sure they'll make things right, but it is a bit disappointing after waiting several days for the parcel to arrive.
IMG_2095a.jpg
 

Phoenixkh

I shaved a fortune
Take this with a pillar of salt...as I've only been wet shaving for just over a year now. I started out with one single edge Artist Club razor. I used that ~ 5.5 months. I learned a lot about my face and technique. At that point, I wanted to try some DE razors. I found some excellent Vintage Gillette DE razors. I only used one of them a couple times before I sent them off to Chris Spencer @ Back Roads Gold to be replated. His workmanship is amazing... top notch in every way, customer service included. I wouldn't say I had had stellar shaves with the one I used but at least, satisfactory. I wasn't blown away.

Right before we left and continuing on when we were gone for 4 weeks, I decided to buy a Blutt BR-1 1.20, along with a .86 base plate. It showed up before we returned but it was the first razor I used after we got home. It is going to be hard to communicate how I felt the first time I used it. It was like nothing I had felt previously. I purposely wanted to bump up the efficient of my AC razor by half a step or so and talked at length with @Mr. Shavington about doing that. That was the whole reason behind the Blutt BR-1 purchase.

The only reason I mention this to you, @Jay21 is because I wanted to convey my opinion that our razor selections do matter. At least they certainly have for me. I know people say, you can make any razor work and of course this is also true. But for me, there are razors I can tell the instant I put that blade to my face and take one WTG stroke that it is going to be excellent for me. I've had that same experience with 5 other razors in addition to the Blutt BR-1. Now.... what would have happened if I had used the Blutt BR-1 1.2 when I first started out? It might have been too efficient for me, I don't know. Like I said.. I already had 6.6 months of shaving with that AC razor, including our 4 week trip.

I think, after you've been at this for a few months, you'll discover the razors you like.... and the ones that don't work as well for you. You'll get into a good groove and continue to develop your technique. You won't have to buy a dozen razors to discover this, I don't believe. Through your journal and reading other threads, I suspect you'll fine a shaving buddy.... someone who share the same likes and needs as you have. That person or persons will be able to give you tailored advice based on razors you have in common. That has saved me so much time and money.
 
Take this with a pillar of salt...as I've only been wet shaving for just over a year now. I started out with one single edge Artist Club razor. I used that ~ 5.5 months. I learned a lot about my face and technique. At that point, I wanted to try some DE razors. I found some excellent Vintage Gillette DE razors. I only used one of them a couple times before I sent them off to Chris Spencer @ Back Roads Gold to be replated. His workmanship is amazing... top notch in every way, customer service included. I wouldn't say I had had stellar shaves with the one I used but at least, satisfactory. I wasn't blown away.

Right before we left and continuing on when we were gone for 4 weeks, I decided to buy a Blutt BR-1 1.20, along with a .86 base plate. It showed up before we returned but it was the first razor I used after we got home. It is going to be hard to communicate how I felt the first time I used it. It was like nothing I had felt previously. I purposely wanted to bump up the efficient of my AC razor by half a step or so and talked at length with @Mr. Shavington about doing that. That was the whole reason behind the Blutt BR-1 purchase.

The only reason I mention this to you, @Jay21 is because I wanted to convey my opinion that our razor selections do matter. At least they certainly have for me. I know people say, you can make any razor work and of course this is also true. But for me, there are razors I can tell the instant I put that blade to my face and take one WTG stroke that it is going to be excellent for me. I've had that same experience with 5 other razors in addition to the Blutt BR-1. Now.... what would have happened if I had used the Blutt BR-1 1.2 when I first started out? It might have been too efficient for me, I don't know. Like I said.. I already had 6.6 months of shaving with that AC razor, including our 4 week trip.

I think, after you've been at this for a few months, you'll discover the razors you like.... and the ones that don't work as well for you. You'll get into a good groove and continue to develop your technique. You won't have to buy a dozen razors to discover this, I don't believe. Through your journal and reading other threads, I suspect you'll fine a shaving buddy.... someone who share the same likes and needs as you have. That person or persons will be able to give you tailored advice based on razors you have in common. That has saved me so much time and money.
Very well said.
 
Jay, I took the time to reread your entire journal to see if I can discern a pattern and see if some of my insight might help you out.
I have a fair complexion and my whiskers are dark, so even if there is no stubble feel, the stubble at and below the skin level is clearly visible
I have that too and I can have had a marble skin after my shave while still not liking that way. However, it’s me stroking and touching my face and apart from the Mrs no one else. So if your hands tell you you’re smooth just be happy for you.
Sure, the r41 can cut closer, but it's not worth the extra insult that the razor does to my face
The R41 can be a harsh razor and is one of the razors I can get the closest shave with bar none. And highly highly dependant on the blade I am using. And usually the R41 requires less passes.
It seems like the 89 head is the winning design for my face, and I've had that since almost the beginning
I started out with the KCG razor and blades and I thought I had the right combination for me. After a few months I got the idea I wanted more efficiency. I could only get BBS using the Four Pass Shave (which is an excellent source of information by the way). I decided on the Fatip Piccolo Special Edition because it came with two baseplates OC and SB. All brass for little over $25. It was a match made in heaven. The design allows for steep and shallow shaving, gorgeous to look at, and nimble and not too heavy. I really should have stopped there with buying razors - but that’s another story :cuppa:
The irritation might be from too many passes or the wrong blade for my face?
Purely based on combining your story and mine I would say both and in reverse order - the irritation can be yours if you do both. That was the case for me. As much as I liked the KCG blade and still do I have to be careful with it on my neck in avoiding irritation.

Blades are very YMMV territory but I suspect that the Nacet or any other stainless isn’t doing you favours. Changing razors sometimes helps but not always. I try to use Nacet as last as possible. I try to avoid stainless whenever I can. And I learned yesterday that Astra SP might not be my cup of tea too.

Sharper blades usually lead to fewer passes and therefore less irritation. For me Dorco Titans and Dorco ST300HQ are a great match in most of my razors. I have had varying results with Tigers very much depending on the razor I use them in and also Gillette 365 is a great blade for me. And obviously KCG, but the price is not everyone’s cup of tea (I happen to live in a country where they are on sale once and then - making it more affordable). Almost all blades work well in my Fatips.
No irritation at all except where I scraped up my Adam's apple again
I tend to not shave there actually and if I do I pull skin away sideways and then shave the pulled away skin.

TLDR: Personally for me I think you could need a different blade and one with coating. Platinum or something but not stainless steel. Perhaps those Dorco’s might work for you too.

If you want a step up in efficiency but still want a comfortable shave try a Fatip. They definitely won’t break the bank if it doesn’t work out, but I am hallucinating they still. There are different handles available - the piccolo is solid and on the heavier side (but not overly heavy) and smaller in diameter (piccolo is Italian for small).

Kudos for sticking with it. After a year of DE shaving I still have user errors with a couple of razors (my more aggressive ones), but finding the Fatip and the right blade made all the difference. You will find your combination soon without throwing huge amounts of dollars at it too. And have a great shave (for you!) as a result. After which the fun really starts with buying too many blades too many soaps and too many of everything!

Cheers,

Guido
 
Jay, I took the time to reread your entire journal to see if I can discern a pattern and see if some of my insight might help you out.

I have that too and I can have had a marble skin after my shave while still not liking that way. However, it’s me stroking and touching my face and apart from the Mrs no one else. So if your hands tell you you’re smooth just be happy for you.

The R41 can be a harsh razor and is one of the razors I can get the closest shave with bar none. And highly highly dependant on the blade I am using. And usually the R41 requires less passes.

I started out with the KCG razor and blades and I thought I had the right combination for me. After a few months I got the idea I wanted more efficiency. I could only get BBS using the Four Pass Shave (which is an excellent source of information by the way). I decided on the Fatip Piccolo Special Edition because it came with two baseplates OC and SB. All brass for little over $25. It was a match made in heaven. The design allows for steep and shallow shaving, gorgeous to look at, and nimble and not too heavy. I really should have stopped there with buying razors - but that’s another story :cuppa:

Purely based on combining your story and mine I would say both and in reverse order - the irritation can be yours if you do both. That was the case for me. As much as I liked the KCG blade and still do I have to be careful with it on my neck in avoiding irritation.

Blades are very YMMV territory but I suspect that the Nacet or any other stainless isn’t doing you favours. Changing razors sometimes helps but not always. I try to use Nacet as last as possible. I try to avoid stainless whenever I can. And I learned yesterday that Astra SP might not be my cup of tea too.

Sharper blades usually lead to fewer passes and therefore less irritation. For me Dorco Titans and Dorco ST300HQ are a great match in most of my razors. I have had varying results with Tigers very much depending on the razor I use them in and also Gillette 365 is a great blade for me. And obviously KCG, but the price is not everyone’s cup of tea (I happen to live in a country where they are on sale once and then - making it more affordable). Almost all blades work well in my Fatips.

I tend to not shave there actually and if I do I pull skin away sideways and then shave the pulled away skin.

TLDR: Personally for me I think you could need a different blade and one with coating. Platinum or something but not stainless steel. Perhaps those Dorco’s might work for you too.

If you want a step up in efficiency but still want a comfortable shave try a Fatip. They definitely won’t break the bank if it doesn’t work out, but I am hallucinating they still. There are different handles available - the piccolo is solid and on the heavier side (but not overly heavy) and smaller in diameter (piccolo is Italian for small).

Kudos for sticking with it. After a year of DE shaving I still have user errors with a couple of razors (my more aggressive ones), but finding the Fatip and the right blade made all the difference. You will find your combination soon without throwing huge amounts of dollars at it too. And have a great shave (for you!) as a result. After which the fun really starts with buying too many blades too many soaps and too many of everything!

Cheers,

Guido
Thank you thank you thank you for taking the time to do all this. I reallt appreciate all the effort that went into this personal favor. I’ll give your suggestions a shot!
 
Most welcome Jay and I realised this morning I forgot one - dawned on me during the shave: short strokes! I use very short strokes bordering on buffing strokes. This decreases risk of irritation because I stop sooner and more ability therefore to correct midway.

Guido
 
Thanks to everyone for all the advice and help. It's been most generous of you. I'm certainly going to try some different blades to see if that helps with any of the irritation issues.

Since I had to shave this morning, and I was running a bit behind, I decided to have a quick shave. While I'm waiting to order some new blades, I picked up my EJ 89, which I know the best of all my razors. It had a Nacet already in it, so what the heck. Let's see how this goes.

I only did two passes. I feel like the WTG stroke hasn't been doing much of anything. It's certainly not very efficient, so it was essentially wasted face time of the blade. I started with XTG and finished with ATG. For years, I thought I could never do ATG, even with cartridges, but especially with DE razors. It turns out that I most likely can. The problem in the past was too much pressure and too steep of an angle. Well, those reasons and my trouble swirl. I would hit that and immediately regret that decision. This morning, I took a very shallow angle and gently clipped the hair off ATG.

The result: BBS-. I few spots needed touchup, but I forwent those in the hopes of saving on blade time and irritation. My swirl is a hopeless abyss of doom and the last bastion for stubble, but other than that, I'm happy with the results. The Old Spice had some sting, but I'm not sure if that's simply because I went ATG or if the blade is still causing irritation. An hour later after the shave, the irritation is fairly minimal. By this point with other shaves, I'd know if I set my face on fire. So far, so good. I could probably live with this for the rest of my shaving life, but I know there's room for improvement and irritation can further be minimized.

I'm thinking other blades might serve me well while using this two-pass technique. This method and razor are certainly efficient enough for my liking. I need to work on my technique and find the best blade for my face. I have one KCG left and I may even go back to the Astra SP to test out my refined techniques. I'll have more information then and can make a more informed decision.

Thanks again, everyone!
 
It’s fun to do as well Jay. That’s what this forum excels at - helping each other out to get better shaves. And another huge part of this community is the PIF and sooner or later you will get to experience that as well.

That and enabling others to get even more stash than you do! :cuppa:

Guido
 
As always, thanks to you and everyone else for the advice and encouragement. I was explaining to my girlfriend the other day that I joined an online community that is helping me figure out DE shaving. Her first reaction was, "Didn't cavemen shave with sharp rocks?" But, she is very supportive and appreciates the closer shaves that I've been getting.

In other news, a bit of disappointment. I thought I'd treat myself to a Henson AL13++ to see what the buzz was all about and to see if the fixed shaving angle would help me, but it arrived with a defect. The threads on the cap are missing a decent chunk. I contacted the seller and I'm sure they'll make things right, but it is a bit disappointing after waiting several days for the parcel to arrive.
View attachment 1632055
Apparently, this piece is missing by design to protect the threads during "gunk" buildup. I'm relieved!
 
I just wanted to give a shoutout to @Guido75 @Phoenixkh @know1special and everyone else for taking the time to help me these last few days. It's greatly appreciated and far more than I ever expected when joining this community.

Happy to do so! 😎👍

As Guido mentioned, we are simply continuing the long tradition of knowledge transfer that we ourselves have benefitted from.

There is a wealth of experience here, and now...that includes you!

Hopefully, as you grow into your method you'll feel equally compelled to reach out and give a bit of guidance to those newly arrived.
 
Jay, I took the time to reread your entire journal to see if I can discern a pattern and see if some of my insight might help you out.

I have that too and I can have had a marble skin after my shave while still not liking that way. However, it’s me stroking and touching my face and apart from the Mrs no one else. So if your hands tell you you’re smooth just be happy for you.

The R41 can be a harsh razor and is one of the razors I can get the closest shave with bar none. And highly highly dependant on the blade I am using. And usually the R41 requires less passes.

I started out with the KCG razor and blades and I thought I had the right combination for me. After a few months I got the idea I wanted more efficiency. I could only get BBS using the Four Pass Shave (which is an excellent source of information by the way). I decided on the Fatip Piccolo Special Edition because it came with two baseplates OC and SB. All brass for little over $25. It was a match made in heaven. The design allows for steep and shallow shaving, gorgeous to look at, and nimble and not too heavy. I really should have stopped there with buying razors - but that’s another story :cuppa:

Purely based on combining your story and mine I would say both and in reverse order - the irritation can be yours if you do both. That was the case for me. As much as I liked the KCG blade and still do I have to be careful with it on my neck in avoiding irritation.

Blades are very YMMV territory but I suspect that the Nacet or any other stainless isn’t doing you favours. Changing razors sometimes helps but not always. I try to use Nacet as last as possible. I try to avoid stainless whenever I can. And I learned yesterday that Astra SP might not be my cup of tea too.

Sharper blades usually lead to fewer passes and therefore less irritation. For me Dorco Titans and Dorco ST300HQ are a great match in most of my razors. I have had varying results with Tigers very much depending on the razor I use them in and also Gillette 365 is a great blade for me. And obviously KCG, but the price is not everyone’s cup of tea (I happen to live in a country where they are on sale once and then - making it more affordable). Almost all blades work well in my Fatips.

I tend to not shave there actually and if I do I pull skin away sideways and then shave the pulled away skin.

TLDR: Personally for me I think you could need a different blade and one with coating. Platinum or something but not stainless steel. Perhaps those Dorco’s might work for you too.

If you want a step up in efficiency but still want a comfortable shave try a Fatip. They definitely won’t break the bank if it doesn’t work out, but I am hallucinating they still. There are different handles available - the piccolo is solid and on the heavier side (but not overly heavy) and smaller in diameter (piccolo is Italian for small).

Kudos for sticking with it. After a year of DE shaving I still have user errors with a couple of razors (my more aggressive ones), but finding the Fatip and the right blade made all the difference. You will find your combination soon without throwing huge amounts of dollars at it too. And have a great shave (for you!) as a result. After which the fun really starts with buying too many blades too many soaps and too many of everything!

Cheers,

Guido
I’d like to ask some questions about blade recommendations. I had no idea that Nacets didn’t have some sort of coating. Maybe, like you said, it is causing some irritation. I also have Astra SPs, which do have coating. They are noticeably less sharp, but maybe the coating can help me. I got irritation from them in the past, but that was earlier in my journey when I know I was applying too much pressure. What specifically did you recently conclude that may have turned you off from them?

I’m looking at other coated blades. What are your thoughts on Gillette Platinums? GSB that have teflon?
I have an old stash of Personna (USA) blue comfort coated I may try again. I remember them being neither sharp nor smooth, but that was with my less refined technique. I also have a KCG remaining. How do you think these compare to other Gillette blades?

Thanks.
 

thombrogan

Lounging On The Isle Of Tugsley.
So far as I know, all stainless double edge blades have PTFE/Teflon even if they’re listed as stainless, chrome, Platinum, tungsten, titanium, iridium, super iridium
 
So far as I know, all stainless double edge blades have PTFE/Teflon even if they’re listed as stainless, chrome, Platinum, tungsten, titanium, iridium, super iridium
So then the Nacets have a coating, just not platinum. Maybe I need to focus on trying blades that are confirmed to have platinum. Is that considered to typically cause less irritation for most users?
 
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