Ordered an Unbleached Zenith Boar

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Two Manchurians.

Two coppers.

Don't forget the horse. It is a very interesting brush. Far better than I expected, but also floppy, not dense, and weird compared to most brushes I've used. Make no mistake; I like the horse and not just a little bit. Love the handle, too.

Zenith silvertips are very nice, too.

There are a lot of great Zenith brushes worth one's attention. Not to worry though as there is no hurry.

Sometimes I think we only need one brush. Sometimes I think fifty is not enough.

(That said, I don't plan to buy many more brushes. I find myself only using a select few most of the time now, but it is nice to have other options when the variety whim bites.)

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Chandu]

View attachment 1607219

Two coppers.



Jim

Someday, after sabbatical I will get the badger I have the boar and horse.

 

[Chandu]

Just to follow up, the brushes came in and I've had a chance to give them some fondling. These are all great handles, but if I had a pick a favorite it might be the butterscotch 502. It sure feels great in the hand in a variety of positions.

And I thought that red handle's brush was an unbleached knot, but I guess I got that wrong, sure looks bleached to me.

View attachment 1607138

Those look great. I really like the color of the unbleached. Will be interested in how it breaks in vs the bleached.

 

[V12Stu]

Wow, get out of my head, devil!

You and I are reading the same threads my friend. At the advice of @Phoenixkh, @Chan Eil Whiskers and many others I'm planning on a Zenith Manchurian purchase later in the year. I'm a big boar fan for sure but part of the goal with this purchase was to try all these handles with cheaper boar knots before I pick the Manchurian handle.

I love that copper handle too! The patina is cool but yeah, I've had to come to an understanding that I just need to let it do it's thing.

I'm looking forward to hearing what you think of yours!! Let us know when you get them! We can compare notes.

Yep - looks like we're on the same trajectory of working out which handle(s) work best before investing in a badger copy. That said, I expect the boars to be brilliant as well - just a different experience which will allow for a nice change as we rotate the different brushes around.

Like I say, I expect mine will take until later in the month to clear customs into the UK from Spain but as soon as I get them, I'll post some pics and experiences as well once I get them up and running.

Just been reading about getting the funk out and breaking brushes in here - I'm sure you've found it too but I thought a link wouldn't go amiss in case not.

Looking forward to the next instalment!

 

[flask28]

Yep - looks like we're on the same trajectory of working out which handle(s) work best before investing in a badger copy. That said, I expect the boars to be brilliant as well - just a different experience which will allow for a nice change as we rotate the different brushes around.

Like I say, I expect mine will take until later in the month to clear customs into the UK from Spain but as soon as I get them, I'll post some pics and experiences as well once I get them up and running.

Just been reading about getting the funk out and breaking brushes in here - I'm sure you've found it too but I thought a link wouldn't go amiss in case not.

Looking forward to the next instalment!

Great link! Thank you! And perfect timing. I don't have too many brushes but none of them have ever been particularly "funky" like I see described here.

Until I got these unbleached Zeniths . Hog House!! Dang. Now I know what everyone means by brush funk. lol. So I'm following the advice spread across that thread. @Chan Eil Whiskers turned me on to Ship Shape as a substitute for dawn, but otherwise it's the same.

The 502 brush is lathered up and sitting right now, getting a little funky cold medina.

 

[rsp1202]

I've been re-watching Turkish shave videos, where the barber whips up this bubbly, wet lather in seconds and literally jams what I assume are boar bristles onto the face of his customer (the bristles don't look like horsehair, but maybe I'm wrong). He's got his fingers pushing down on the knot, and what starts out as awful and thin lather somehow turns into something lush after lots of swirling and scrubbing. I used boars for a short period almost a decade-and-a-half ago and never got that result. I'm following along here thinking I might have missed the real show.

 

[Rivers23]

I've been re-watching Turkish shave videos, where the barber whips up this bubbly, wet lather in seconds and literally jams what I assume are boar bristles onto the face of his customer (the bristles don't look like horsehair, but maybe I'm wrong).

The Italian barbers do the same thing. Yes, it's boar bristle, all Italian (and Turkish) barbers that I've seen on Youtube use boar brushes. They openly say it's the only kind of brush that is supposed to be used for shaving. But, keep in mind that their boar brushes are fully broken in so don't expect it right out of the box.
Oh, and Turkish barbers use the ARKO soap and it's really a great soap. Italians use Proraso.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

It would be a faster process with shorter drying times.

Generous Break In Required​

​

Both brushes could be used by many gentlemen right out of the box. I prefer broken in and softer boars, especially including unbleached boars. Other unbleached brushes have taken considerable breaking in to fully suit me as well as they can.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[flask28]

The Italian barbers do the same thing. Yes, it's boar bristle, all Italian (and Turkish) barbers that I've seen on Youtube use boar brushes. They openly say it's the only kind of brush that is supposed to be used for shaving. But, keep in mind that their boar brushes are fully broken in so don't expect it right out of the box.
Oh, and Turkish barbers use the ARKO soap and it's really a great soap. Italians use Proraso.

I've been re-watching Turkish shave videos, where the barber whips up this bubbly, wet lather in seconds and literally jams what I assume are boar bristles onto the face of his customer (the bristles don't look like horsehair, but maybe I'm wrong). He's got his fingers pushing down on the knot, and what starts out as awful and thin lather somehow turns into something lush after lots of swirling and scrubbing. I used boars for a short period almost a decade-and-a-half ago and never got that result. I'm following along here thinking I might have missed the real show.

Yes! I've noticed that same thing. If you jump to 0:42 in this video

That's a whole different level of hydrated lather than what I'm making. I'm been moving in that direction but you can see the "lather bowl" is full of super soapy water, not lather. And that boar looks huge!

Same deal with this Korean barber, although I think he's using a synthetic. If you jump to 3:40 you'll see him mixing up what looks like soapy water to me.

I think that super thin lather a SR shaver thing, it's super slick and easier to see what you are doing. @Tanuki, master of the straight, has described his lather that way to me, much like you see in these videos. I've been trying to thin up my lather over time, using less soap and more water - but not that thin though!!

Wow, that Korean assistant is bringing some serious game to handing out towels. I'm not that serious when I meet the president of my company.

 

[flask28]

It would be a faster process with shorter drying times.

Generous Break In Required​

View attachment 1608145​

Both brushes could be used by many gentlemen right out of the box. I prefer broken in and softer boars, especially including unbleached boars. Other unbleached brushes have taken considerable breaking in to fully suit me as well as they can.

Happy shaves,

Jim

Your photos make those brushes look so much better than mine do

I agree, these two unbleached boars remind me of the Semogue SOC boar in that they seem surprisingly soft out of the box. I think most shaving brothers could use them straight away. Outside of, you know.

I lathered up both brushes in MWF today and let them sit around that way, fattening them up after they spent some time soaking in Ship Shape brush cleaner. It's been about six hours now of lather-bath and I'll probably clean them soon and leave them to try overnight. They have less odor already!

It's surprising, to me, that even out of the box the 30 cycled bleached B33 seems to have more backbone than the brand new unbleached 502, but the 502 does have a taller loft. I think the taller unbleached 507 has the same basic knot dimensions as the B33 (506 handle) though, so it might be a a better basis for comparison of the two as these break in.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Yes! I've noticed that same thing. If you jump to 0:42 in this video

That's a whole different level of hydrated lather than what I'm making. I'm been moving in that direction but you can see the "lather bowl" is full of super soapy water, not lather. And that boar looks huge!

Same deal with this Korean barber, although I think he's using a synthetic. If you jump to 3:40 you'll see him mixing up what looks like soapy water to me.

I think that super thin lather a SR shaver thing, it's super slick and easier to see what you are doing. @Tanuki, master of the straight, has described his lather that way to me, much like you see in these videos. I've been trying to thin up my lather over time, using less soap and more water - but not that thin though!!

The Korean video has too much light for me to catch all that I'd like to, but the Turkish video is wonderfully interesting.

I don't know what these Turkish shaves cost, but it looks like you get your money's worth whatever the price. Is the owner of the shop a chiropractor?

I'd say there are multiple ways to skin a cat make great lather. The main thing I notice in the lather department is the amount of work the Turkish barber does with his brush. It's far from being just a matter of slapping on the right amount of lather. (The barber I go to just slaps on lather out of a machine and goes to town. Not that he's done any shaving on me beyond just a post hair cut neck shave.)

I love the Turkish shave. The barber is a no nonsense experienced professional barber and it shows. Nothing is fancy. There are no flourishes. But what a great shave and what a complete "shaving experience!"

I wondered whether he was using a real straight razor (the kind you hone) or a barber's razor with a replaceable blade (like an AC blade)? I could not be sure. My forced bet would be a straight, but why not strop it? Burning the edge is a neat trick. Actually he had plenty of neat tricks. It was a treat to watch him.

Notice the level of attention and intensity on the barber's part.

To my way of thinking - I shaved for perhaps a year and a half exclusively with straight razors, but I'm by no means a straight razor master - the straight razor increased my already good understanding of how well hydrated a lather should be.

It seems very apparent to me, and has for a very long time, that a lather does not have have to be thick in the sense of being deep on the skin or a thick layer on the skin. The only part of the lather that matters touches our skin and immerses our generally very short whiskers.

More lather, thicker Santa Claus lather, just gets in the way and impedes our view of things, right?

Having said that, I still prefer, even if using a straight razor, Santa Claus lather. Of course, that means I'm sometimes wiping some of it off with a finger so I can see where the razor's fixing to go. Still, I like a lot of lather to begin with.

My lather though is very hydrated.

Also, I know my own face far better than a barber would know the face of a customer so I don't have to see everything so very well.

I'm a 100% of the time face latherer. I enjoy building the lather on my face. I enjoy the feeling of the deliciously scrubby knot.

Regardless of how one skins the cat one must use enough soap and enough water and get the proportions right. With some soaps that's a tricky proposition, but many soaps allow a good bit of latitude in the proportions.

Thanks for sharing these videos. The Turkish video is a real find!

According to my understanding which mostly comes from my grandfather and grandmother, there was a time when American gentlemen of a certain status and with the means went to the barber every day other than Sunday for a shave. Knowing my grandfather I'd say that meant three things. The shaves were excellent and enjoyable. The process was fast because time is money so the barbershop was very close to the office and the shaves were quick. The shaves were cheap.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Mr. Shavington]

Fascinating to watch that Turkish barber - it’s always soothing to watch a master craftsman at work. Using an open flame to remove ear hair was novel too.

Returning to Zenith brushes, though, if I had to select one shavng brush brand for life then Zenith would be the one and I’d be perfectly happy with that. Every Zenith brush I’ve had was outstanding by any benchmark, and it’s as true for their badgers as it is for their boars, horses and synthetics.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

On a very good day, I can even manage to flatter with my iPhone and light box my SOC boar.​

Your photos make those brushes look so much better than mine do

Sometimes my photos of my brushes make my brushes look better than mine do, too.

I agree, these two unbleached boars remind me of the Semogue SOC boar in that they seem surprisingly soft out of the box. I think most shaving brothers could use them straight away. Outside of, you know.

It's not that the unbleached boars can't be used right out of the box. They can.

To me though a boar knot should be broken in. Some are largely or mostly broken in when we buy them. Some, are not.

Many boars - bleached Zeniths and my two Mondial boars for example - are largely chemically broken in and thus soft from the get go. Other boars - my Omega Mighty Midget, my Proraso Pro, my Omega Jade, and my unbleached Zeniths - have been too stiff and too harsh for me until I broke them in via an offline break in process.

That doesn't mean I couldn't and didn't use any of them from Day One. I used the Omegas for sure, right out of the box, and thought I liked them well enough. But I discovered they were actually a bit too harsh for my skin which led me to the offline break in process.

I want to see millions of split ends on an unbleached knot before I use it and I want it to be soft the first time it touches my skin. In the real word that means a shave or two or three to test the knot, a test shave during the break in process. In my experience, the process takes a good many dry to wet to dry cycles, perhaps more than thirty.

For a bleached boar knot, the process is unnecessary (for me) but even the bleached knots break in as they are used. At least to a degree they break in more than they had before being shipped to us.

For an unbleached boar knot, the process is 4+ necessary (for me) but might not be for others.

The SOC boar (mine) is not a brush I like. Mine took forever to break in. I also could say it has never really broken in. It's never transformed into a knot I like in spite of a lot of use and a good bit of offline break in work. In my view of it, it splays funny, and is way too much lacking in form. It's not properly dense. It's unlike the good boar knots I have from Semogue, Zenith, Omega, and Mondial. It's barely worth keeping and hardly worth using. I would hope I got a dud.

My Stirling boar was worse than the SOC boar and was thrown away even though I liked the handle.

(My SOC Misturas are great knots!)

For the record, I probably said nice things about the Stirling boar knot and the SOC boar knot, but I've learned better.

Semogue's LE boar #35/50 is a fabulous knot. I believe it's bleached and know it was great right out of the box.

Sometimes I think maybe my skin is a bit more sensitive to hard knots than everybody else's skin. Meaning I'm a snowflake.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Fascinating to watch that Turkish barber - it’s always soothing to watch a master craftsman at work. Using an open flame to remove ear hair was novel too.

Returning to Zenith brushes, though, if I had to select one shavng brush brand for life then Zenith would be the one and I’d be perfectly happy with that. Every Zenith brush I’ve had was outstanding by any benchmark, and it’s as true for their badgers as it is for their boars, horses and synthetics.

One day I might see a Zenith synthetic in just the right handle...

The rest? I agree. Zeniths are hard to beat. One can spend more money and get a lot less for it.

From this angle the knot looks fine, but only from this angle. In spite of the bump, the knot performs perfectly and feels great. In this photo, the brush was brand new.​

I have one Zenith brush which arrived with a knot which shouldn't have passed QC. The knot is badly and visibly misshapen such that there is a largish bump on one side.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Mr. Shavington]

Nah, you’re not a snowflake, Jim. Shaving is about removing stubble without distressing the skin - what’s wrong with seeing it that way? Why would you want anything other than a luxurious shaving experience? And when did shaving brushes become tools for exfoliation?

And, honestly, where I come from ‘exfoliation’ is probably the snowflakiest word you could possibly utter.

 

[rsp1202]

I wondered whether he was using a real straight razor (the kind you hone) or a barber's razor with a replaceable blade (like an AC blade)?

It's likely a Shavette-style razor by Sedef.

 

[rsp1202]

I still feel the lure of badger and boar. Maybe a Mistura for a two-fer? It comes with that beautiful Taj resin handle.

As for here and now, that Zenith 502 butterscotch looks great, if only it came bleached.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I still feel the lure of badger and boar. Maybe a Mistura for a two-fer? It comes with that beautiful Taj resin handle.

As for here and now, that Zenith 502 butterscotch looks great, if only it came bleached.

Why would you want it bleached when you can buy it unbleached.

With enough breaking in work which just means enough dry to wet to dry cycles one can have the best of any bleached knot in terms of softness coupled with the most delicious scrub on the planet.

Of course my tastes and preferences are showing again.

The twins are soaking again.​

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[rsp1202]

Why would you want it bleached when you can buy it unbleached.

Lazy, I am.

Then, again, that's one good looking brush.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Lazy, I am.

Then, again, that's one good looking brush.

Me, too. Lazy.

Happy shaves,

Jim