Are these minoSharp stones any good for SRs?

[MartyShaves]

Hi All,

I have these two minoSharp stones which I’ve had for many years. I bought them to use with my Global knives. I’ve never used the 240 grit water whetstone. Never needed anything that harsh on my knives. The 1000/8000 stone has been used a bit and as you can see the 8000 side looks like it needs lapping.

Is it worth me trying to lap it? If so what with? Do I need to buy a lapping stone? I looked at the shapton lapping stone but it’s over £200 or do I need to buy a set of something like Shapton Glass. The set I’ve looked at has 1000 HR, 3000 HR & 8000 HC. That set is £159. I could just buy the 8000 Shapton glass for £86.

is the 8000 Shapton Glass going to be any better than the 8000 minoSharp I already have? I may be better spending money on just Good lapping stone.

Basically I want to get into honing and don’t know what direction to take. I’m in Manchester in the UK if that makes a difference as to which way to go.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

“is the 8000 Shapton Glass going to be any better than the 8000 minoSharp I already have? I may be better spending money on just Good lapping stone.

Basically I want to get into honing and don’t know what direction to take.”

Neither stone appears to have been lapped. Buy an inexpensive 400/1k diamond plate, $30 and lap the stones flat and try them.

The stones were made for Global by one of the big stone makers. Global has an established relationship with King/ Matsunaga stone, likely they are rebranded King stones.

Will a Shapton 8K, finish a razor better than a King 8k? Not until you master honing, and maybe not even then.

Most any 8k finished on Chrome Oxide or CBN will shave well, or as a jump off point to a Natural finisher.

 

[MartyShaves]

“is the 8000 Shapton Glass going to be any better than the 8000 minoSharp I already have? I may be better spending money on just Good lapping stone.

Basically I want to get into honing and don’t know what direction to take.”

Neither stone appears to have been lapped. Buy an inexpensive 400/1k diamond plate, $30 and lap the stones flat and try them.

The stones were made for Global by one of the big stone makers. Global has an established relationship with King/ Matsunaga stone, likely they are rebranded King stones.

Will a Shapton 8K, finish a razor better than a King 8k? Not until you master honing, and maybe not even then.

Most any 8k finished on Chrome Oxide or CBN will shave well, or as a jump off point to a Natural finisher.

Thanks for your input, I have on order a cotton strop and some Chrome Oxide. I’m going to try refreshing my razor with that first. In the meantime I shall try and find a cheap 400/1k diamond plate and lap the stone. I need to buy a cheaper SR to practice on But don’t want a rubbish one. Currently considering the Dovo Best Quality razor to try honing on.

 

[Herrenberg]

Thanks for your input, I have on order a cotton strop and some Chrome Oxide. I’m going to try refreshing my razor with that first. In the meantime I shall try and find a cheap 400/1k diamond plate and lap the stone. I need to buy a cheaper SR to practice on But don’t want a rubbish one. Currently considering the Dovo Best Quality razor to try honing on.

Might want to hear from @Slash McCoy about his experience with Dovo Best Quality before you commit to the razor.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

So, you do not have any razors?

Yea, a Dovo would work, but you can buy a nice vintage razor for about $20 from an Antique Store or eBay and learn on that.

Did a quick check there is a guy selling 5 decent razors 2 Blue Steel, Genco, Yankee and Antoni Tadross. Clean them all up with steel wool and metal polish and you will be good. Many to chose from in the $20 price point.

Learn on the Blue Steels. The Genco and the Tadross alone, are worth twice the price including shipping and a third to quarter of what a new Dovo would cost you. Super Shavers both.

If you don’t get those, post a photo of any potential purchase and some one can advise you.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Might want to hear from @Slash McCoy about his experience with Dovo Best Quality before you commit to the razor.

Indeed you might.

Having had three lemons in three razors, I suppose I am unfairly biased. Perhaps they aren't THAT bad, right? Okay, NOW I could take one and hone it up, yeah, but early in my straight razor journey they were just overwhelmingly twisty/warpy and they needed either (1) a lot of steel removed to get down to a bevel, or (2) working with the wonk by using a very narrow hone, and not trying to "fix" the razor. Honestly, for a beginner they are not a good choice, right out of the sealed box. They need to be initially honed by someone with a bit of experience. After that, they are not particularly troublesome. The steel is great, they just need to have that initial bevel set by someone willing to do what must be done, and who knows how to do it.

The mid level Dovo razors are fine, generally. A Bismarck, for instance, would be great. Any other model based on the same blank would be great. Essentially, any Dovo costing 50% more than your "Worst Quality" should be okay, generally. Don't get mad at me if you still end up with a lemon but I have several better quality Dovos of the Bismarck pattern and all honed up quite nicely.

If you want to go cheap, either let an experienced straight shaver pick out a good vintage one for you to pounce on, or have yourself a few Gold Dollars. Yes, a few, not just one, because they are only a few bucks each and then you can destroy one or two, and no biggie. So you can go at them with a heavy hand, not fearing the consequences. For vintage, I have a soft spot for American razors from about 1910 to 1940. Genco, or Geneva Cutlery, is the first that comes to mind, but there are about 20 other well known brands that are quite good, and very affordable. A Solingen razor would be my next choice, and for a few bucks more, maybe a Japanese western style razor or a Swedish razor. What? I guess by that, I mean nearly any vintage razor that has not been severely mistreated should be okay, and a better choice than a modern entry level Dovo. Exception, due to cult status and overpricing, Sheffield blades such as the good but IMHO overhyped Wade and Butchers. Oh, and do avoid wedge or near wedge razors, initially. A half to full hollowground razor is much easier to hone.

A bit better than a GD but still cheaper than a nice vintage would be a Titan ACRM-2 th.60. I had one and it was pretty straightforward to hone, not a bad razor, but about 4x the cost of a GD. Ask our resident Titan guru, @rbscebu for more info on them, if you are curious, or do a forum search. I did not particularly like the higher priced Titans, for various reasons, but that one, which is also their cheapest model, was okay. I would say it is a reasonable entry point for honing your own razors.

 

[rbscebu]

For a person looking to try straight razor honing and keeping the cost down, for lapping flat, I would suggest something like a 300mm x 300mm smooth flat floor tile and W&D sandpaper. This setup should only cost you a few quid.

Later you can start using a polished granite/marble tile with W&D. I generally restrict the use of diamond plates to whetstone dressing rather than lapping. Some whetstones can rather quickly wear out a diamond plate.

If doing a lot of lapping, the most economical way is to use silicon carbide powder on W&D on tile.

 

[rbscebu]

....A bit better than a GD but still cheaper than a nice vintage would be a Titan ACRM-2 th.60. I had one and it was pretty straightforward to hone, not a bad razor, but about 4x the cost of a GD. Ask our resident Titan guru, @rbscebu for more info on them, if you are curious, or do a forum search. ....

Slash is referring to the Titan ACRM-2 T.H.60. A Gold Dollar 66 sells for about US$7 including shipping while their 208 sells for about US$10 including shipping. The Titan ACRM-2 T.H60 sells for about US$20 including shipping. All three are available on AliExpress.

The additional cost with the Titan gets you a better finished blade (but still not shave-ready), timber scales (GD 66 & 208 are plastic) and steel with some chromium added (slightly more rust resistant than the GDs). Titan also throw in a 60mm wide denim strop, some cerium rare-earth stropping paste and a nice PU leather zippered SR case.

Whether the price difference is worth it is up to you.

 

[MartyShaves]

So, you do not have any razors?

Yea, a Dovo would work, but you can buy a nice vintage razor for about $20 from an Antique Store or eBay and learn on that.

Did a quick check there is a guy selling 5 decent razors 2 Blue Steel, Genco, Yankee and Antoni Tadross. Clean them all up with steel wool and metal polish and you will be good. Many to chose from in the $20 price point.

Learn on the Blue Steels. The Genco and the Tadross alone, are worth twice the price including shipping and a third to quarter of what a new Dovo would cost you. Super Shavers both.

If you don’t get those, post a photo of any potential purchase and some one can advise you.

View attachment 1598006

Shame it’s a US listing. I always seem to have issues buying from the US with import duty etc. I’m not now looking at the Dovo Best Quality as a razor to learn to hone on. I have a SR, it’s a TI and I’m only up to shave number 5. I was advised not to practice on that as it cost £300. I’m unsure if it is truly shave ready or not so thought I’d buy another cheaper razor to practice honing on. I will probably have to up my budget by about 50% on top of the Dovo Best Quality. If I do see a vintage razor on here I will post a picture for thoughts so thanks for that.

Am I right in thinking you can’t post links to razors on ebay. Only tell people that there is one on there? I couldn’t find those ones you mentioned but that may be because they don’t come up when searching from the UK.

 

[MartyShaves]

Indeed you might.

Having had three lemons in three razors, I suppose I am unfairly biased. Perhaps they aren't THAT bad, right? Okay, NOW I could take one and hone it up, yeah, but early in my straight razor journey they were just overwhelmingly twisty/warpy and they needed either (1) a lot of steel removed to get down to a bevel, or (2) working with the wonk by using a very narrow hone, and not trying to "fix" the razor. Honestly, for a beginner they are not a good choice, right out of the sealed box. They need to be initially honed by someone with a bit of experience. After that, they are not particularly troublesome. The steel is great, they just need to have that initial bevel set by someone willing to do what must be done, and who knows how to do it.

The mid level Dovo razors are fine, generally. A Bismarck, for instance, would be great. Any other model based on the same blank would be great. Essentially, any Dovo costing 50% more than your "Worst Quality" should be okay, generally. Don't get mad at me if you still end up with a lemon but I have several better quality Dovos of the Bismarck pattern and all honed up quite nicely.

If you want to go cheap, either let an experienced straight shaver pick out a good vintage one for you to pounce on, or have yourself a few Gold Dollars. Yes, a few, not just one, because they are only a few bucks each and then you can destroy one or two, and no biggie. So you can go at them with a heavy hand, not fearing the consequences. For vintage, I have a soft spot for American razors from about 1910 to 1940. Genco, or Geneva Cutlery, is the first that comes to mind, but there are about 20 other well known brands that are quite good, and very affordable. A Solingen razor would be my next choice, and for a few bucks more, maybe a Japanese western style razor or a Swedish razor. What? I guess by that, I mean nearly any vintage razor that has not been severely mistreated should be okay, and a better choice than a modern entry level Dovo. Exception, due to cult status and overpricing, Sheffield blades such as the good but IMHO overhyped Wade and Butchers. Oh, and do avoid wedge or near wedge razors, initially. A half to full hollowground razor is much easier to hone.

A bit better than a GD but still cheaper than a nice vintage would be a Titan ACRM-2 th.60. I had one and it was pretty straightforward to hone, not a bad razor, but about 4x the cost of a GD. Ask our resident Titan guru, @rbscebu for more info on them, if you are curious, or do a forum search. I did not particularly like the higher priced Titans, for various reasons, but that one, which is also their cheapest model, was okay. I would say it is a reasonable entry point for honing your own razors.

Thanks for the heads up Slash! My thought now is to more likely go with the 50% increase in budget over the Dovo Best Quality. I don’t particularly want to go cheap but don’t want to potentially spoil a great razor. I have sharpened knives before on a stone and I’ve watched loads of YouTube videos so I don’t think I would ruin a razor but maybe struggle to get it shave ready. I could then send it off to be professionally sharpened If I can’t manage it.

I may buy a mid range razor from The Invisible Edge in the UK. He hones them before sending out so will give me a chance to have another look at something shave ready. Then which ever of my razors shaves the worst I could try the Chromium Oxide and strop on. If that doesn’t bring the edge back then try on the 8000 stone, CO & strop then leather strop. Even if the means on my expensive razor. Does that sound like a reasonable way forward?

 

[MartyShaves]

For a person looking to try straight razor honing and keeping the cost down, for lapping flat, I would suggest something like a 300mm x 300mm smooth flat floor tile and W&D sandpaper. This setup should only cost you a few quid.

Later you can start using a polished granite/marble tile with W&D. I generally restrict the use of diamond plates to whetstone dressing rather than lapping. Some whetstones can rather quickly wear out a diamond plate.

If doing a lot of lapping, the most economical way is to use silicon carbide powder on W&D on tile.

I like the sound of trying to lap on a tile. I think I have a granite 300 x 300 tile in my garage. How do you stick the W&D sandpaper on it or does it just grab onto it when wet? Also what grade W&D for sorting my 8000 stone out? The stone is quite soft as it was easy to build a slurry on when sharpening knives. It would probably clog W&D up but I suppose you just keep rinsing it.

 

[Kyle89]

I like the sound of trying to lap on a tile. I think I have a granite 300 x 300 tile in my garage. How do you stick the W&D sandpaper on it or does it just grab onto it when wet? Also what grade W&D for sorting my 8000 stone out? The stone is quite soft as it was easy to build a slurry on when sharpening knives. It would probably clog W&D up but I suppose you just keep rinsing it.

Water should be okay to let the sandpaper grab, granted if you have trouble with the corners bending upwards, some spray adhesive should be okay (unless someone chimes in and says that's the worst idea ever). In regards to clogging, water is your friend.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

You can lap a synthetic stone with a sheet of 220 and a flat surface, but you will be lapping a synthetic water stone frequently and doing so on sandpaper is messy and pain in the butt. Invest in an inexpensive 300-400 diamond plate.

When you first lap a stone, mark a grit pattern with a soft pencil and remove all the pencil. Mark the grid and remove it 3-4 times to ensure that the stone is flat and that the slurry did not wash off the pencil and the stone is still not flat. Lap under running water. If the stone is not lapped flat the first time, it will have pockets of rough grit that will surface as the stone wears and that will reflect on you bevel and edge. Bevel the edges, they can become sharp and rough and will scratch a bevel and edge.

If you lap under running water, flushing the slurry from the stone and diamond plate, you will not damage a diamond plate. If you lap not under running water the slurry will clog the plate and rip the diamonds out.

I lap my stones before each honing and often in the middle of honing and definitely before doing the final finish laps on each stone. Just a few quick laps under running water to keep the stone face clean and cutting uniformly and to re bevel the edges.

You do not need a high dollar diamond plate to lap waterstones. You also do not need loose Silicone Carbide to lap water stones.

If you bought a new TI and did not pay for Honing, it was not shave ready. Some can come close, but they are not honed shave ready from the factory.

If you tape the spine, ink the bevel and do a single lap on the lapped 8k, how much ink is removed and where will tell you how much work needs to be done and how the razor need to be honed. Check your tape frequently and replace it if you burn through. Tape will protect the spine from excessive wear and minimize damage.

Once you have a uniform stria pattern on the bevel and a straight edge, stropping on Chrome Oxide should produce a shave ready edge from the 8k.

The razor then can be maintained on linen and leather strop. Stropping is a difficult skill to master, a single errant stroke can ruin a bevel and its back to the 8k to establish a new edge.

 

[rbscebu]

I like the sound of trying to lap on a tile. I think I have a granite 300 x 300 tile in my garage. How do you stick the W&D sandpaper on it or does it just grab onto it when wet? Also what grade W&D for sorting my 8000 stone out? The stone is quite soft as it was easy to build a slurry on when sharpening knives. It would probably clog W&D up but I suppose you just keep rinsing it.

Water surface tension holds the W&D in place. Depending on how much stone you need to remove, you can start with 80 or 100 grit then finish on about 220 grit for course whetstones (up to about 3k), 360 grit for mid-range (3k to 6k) and 600 grit for ≥6k. If lapping under running water, they should not clog up.

If W&D doesn't suit you, you can then try diamond plates.

 

[MartyShaves]

If you bought a new TI and did not pay for Honing, it was not shave ready. Some can come close, but they are not honed shave ready from the factory.

I bought it from The Invisible Edge in the UK. They say they hone each razor before sending them out and many have confirmed this. As you have said, poor stropping can spoil an edge so I could have taken the edge off. I'm going to try chromium oxide to bring the edge back before rushing to putting it on a whetstone.

If you tape the spine, ink the bevel and do a single lap on the lapped 8k, how much ink is removed and where will tell you how much work needs to be done and how the razor need to be honed. Check your tape frequently and replace it if you burn through. Tape will protect the spine from excessive wear and minimize damage.

I probably wont tape the spine, only because I'm a bit obsessed with angles etc. and don't mind a bit of wear as long as the edge is right. The razor was a gift so will never be sold even if I don't end up always shaving with it.

You can lap a synthetic stone with a sheet of 220 and a flat surface, but you will be lapping a synthetic water stone frequently and doing so on sandpaper is messy and pain in the butt. Invest in an inexpensive 300-400 diamond plate.

Yeah I will probably do this.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Do yourself a favor and tape the spine. The whole spin/bevel wear at the same rate is a myth that has been unfounded ages ago.

What is true is, new honers will needlessly grind and trash a spine with regularity. Tape your razor spine until you master honing, then decide if you want to continue to tape.

A razor has never stopped shaving because of tape, tons of razors will not hold an edge because they were not taped. The fix for such trashed razors is to tape the spine to make up for lost steel.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Do yourself a favor and tape the spine. The whole spin/bevel wear at the same rate is a myth that has been unfounded ages ago.

What is true is, new honers will needlessly grind and trash a spine with regularity. Tape your razor spine until you master honing, then decide if you want to continue to tape.

A razor has never stopped shaving because of tape, tons of razors will not hold an edge because they were not taped. The fix for such trashed razors is to tape the spine to make up for lost steel.

How has simple arithmetic been "unfounded" ages ago?

What is true is, SOME new honers will needlessly grind and trash a spine with regularity, not all or even most, particularly when forewarned.

If a spine has worn so thin in relation to the blade width that it will not take or hold an edge, THEN tape. The honer should make a knowledgeable decision to tape or not, in light of the bevel angle and the shaving qualities of the razor, and not automatically tape. Or not tape, either one.

I have said my piece. You may have the final word on this issue. Refute as you feel you must.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Glad we agree. “Tape your razor spine until you master honing, then decide if you want to continue to tape.”

I just hate that there are all those Million’s of razors on eBay and Antique stores, that will not shave because they were honed with tape.

Millions, gone to waste…