- Thread starter
- #41
GD66 Bevel Set - How to
- Thread starter TheBeast
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #42
The edge shaves arms and legs without pressure with spine touching the skin. Picks Up hairs about 3mm from the skin, they stay laying on the razor.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
Just for fun, maybe strop, and try a shave as it is, if you have time on your hands.
- Thread starter
- #44
My beard is like wire, even the edge gifted to me that was perfected on balsa strops didn't shave too smooth. Also, I suck at SR shaving. With a shavette I get acceptable shaves but with lots of irritation.
So I'll hold out on test shaving for now and train with the shavette.
- Thread starter
- #45
I know counting laps is not the way to go, but it's not going nowhere Near as fast as on tutorial videos.
Is it ok to just do hundreds - thousands of laps until I am satisfied with the scratches?
I shouldn't expect results like in TheAxMethod videos, where there is a nice scratch pattern and edge after a few laps, but it bugs me how many I need to get somewhere.
Is it ok to just do hundreds - thousands of laps until I am satisfied with the scratches?
I shouldn't expect results like in TheAxMethod videos, where there is a nice scratch pattern and edge after a few laps, but it bugs me how many I need to get somewhere.
I would take a step back and watch some of e.g. @KeithVJohnson1 or caleb on YouTube. It is much easier to pick up on information from other when you have spent some time with the stones, as you have already.
Go back to basics and see if there is something you have missed. Sometimes a small change can make a big difference.
If you share a short video of what you are doing on the stones, you will probably get allot of good advice.
- Thread starter
- #47
Here is a minute long video of my X strokes on the 3k which I am currently doing to remove 1k stria.
It might also be worth while to calculate the bevel angle on the GD to see if it is still within a limit the razor can hold. Even a Dovo razor can have problems if the bevel angle drops below 15-16 deg.
To me it seems like you are doing fine.
These microscope images can be a little misleading sometimes.
The deeper striations you see might also be caused by bits of the steel getting imbedded into the stone as it brakes off. This is particularly a problem with steel of lower quality or bad heat threat. It might be much easier to hone a razor with better steel. Or your particular one might even be a problematic one.
- Thread starter
- #49
I don't have a micrometer to measure the angle, Unfortunately, but I will get one at some Point.
Yes, the micrscope images are too zoomed in, but I check the state of the blade with a loupe while honing.
To try something other than a GD, I took a vintage swedish out. As the bevel was set on 1k before, I Made some extra laps, finished under dripping water as lightly as I could with short Xs. Diagonal stria was easy to remove on the 3k, no rush, no pressure, just rolling Xs (smiling wedge). I will see how much I Can progress with that razor on my own.
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
The shave-ready SR I PIFed to @TheBeast was a Comoy's of London (rebadged GD66?) and had a full Method edge finished on diamond pasted balsa. He tried it a few times then decided SR shaving was not for him. He then PIFed it to one of his friends who was interested in SR shaving.
@TheBeast now has the Comoy's back in his position. The blade's edge could have been deteriorated during this period.
- Thread starter
- #51
Seems like the edge lost most of it's quality. I Remember a few months back when I tried it Brand new, I said I was amazed how it Can shave with such a low angle. Now it doesn't seem to shave well even with the spine away from the skin further than the spine's thickness. I'll try it again after picking up the skill with my shavette. Then I might refresh the edge on 12k, if my honing will be in the level of producing a shaveable edge. My wires for beard hairs doesn't make it easy.
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
Knowing that Comoy's blade well, I would give it about 10 to 15 laps on an 8k (finishing with 4 or 5 short pull strokes), then 20 to 30 laps on the 12k (followed by 8 to 10 short X strokes). All honing done with no pressure, weight of blade only. That should give a good shave-ready edge. After each shave, repeat the 12k honing (with the short X strokes) until you notice no further improvement.
The above will not get the blade's edge back to where it originally was when you received it. For that you will need lapping films and diamond pasted balsa.
I understand that you are still very early into your honing journey but I think you are making it hard for yourself. You would have been better to first develop a reasonably good traditional SR shaving technique with a shave-ready SR and then learn to hone.
Anyway, you are now heading down the whetstone honing path so you just have to do your best. Don't worry to much about the looks of the bevel/edge. It is the shave that counts. Striations and small chips may look bad but quite often they do not deteriorate the SR's shaving quality. Always remember, looks don't shave.
I have two very good shaving SRs, each with a chip or two in the edge. These chips can just be seen with the naked eye under a good direct light source. Because both SRs shave so well, I am not concerned about the chips. They will eventually be worn out over the next few years.
The shave test is the only real test of a SR.
- Thread starter
- #53
Agreed. My bad for not doing enough shaves with the Comoy off the balsa strops.
I started seeing progress the last two days honing. I am determined to make it work. Once I do, I will smile at how lost I was at the beggining. Same with SR shaving.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
whoa...I see one thing that might be occasionally causing you problems and holding you back. Always flip the EDGE up and over when you make the turn, not the spine. Keep the spine on the stone. If the razor lifts off the stone at the turn, touch down with the spine first, then the edge, but always flip the Edge up and over. When you flip the edge down at the turn, you are begging for premature contact with the stone.
Otherwise I don't see anything wrong with the stroke. Pressure looks okay though in truth it is hard to tell from here.
- Thread starter
- #55
Yes I see your concern. I find it a little clumsy to roll over the razor on the spine by twisting/rolling it in between my fingers. Then I have to readjust my grip for every lap.
That's why I came Up with an idea to start the action of lifting the edge away from the Stone, rolling the razor on the spine. Then I just don't roll All the way through, but raise the spine from the Stone Once the edge is gone from the Stone. Then I place the razor spine first on the Stone and roll it to place the edge on the stone.
It's rolling on the spine with extra Steps (lifting it Up edge first and placing it down spine first). This way my grip on the razor remains and it feels much quicker and comfortable.
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
I experienced the same when I started but I forced myself to flip the edge and keep the spine in contact with the whetstone. It didn't take long until it all felt quite natural.
It should also be done when stropping - edge up and over while the spine stays on the strop.
In both cases, be sure to have the edge come in contact with the whetstone/strop very gently. Do not let the edge "slam" down.
- Thread starter
- #57
Well, better to put it into muscle memory now, while starting. I'll force myself as Well.
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
If I (a slow learner) can do it, you (young, highly intelligent and well educated) can do it
.- Thread starter
- #59
My hands work 10x slower than my head... Getting my college degre seems easier than getting a shaveable edge right now, haha.If I (a slow learner) can do it, you (young, highly intelligent and well educated) can do it
Is that after 8k or 3k, photos in post 41?
How you flip the razor does not matter, I flip the razor spine first without issue, as do many folks, just do not hit the edge on the stone.
I am more concerned with the random angled X stria, (circle stria, I believe) in post beginning at 34, up to 39 and even some light random stria is visible in post 41.
All that random X stria should easily be removed in 10-20 laps on the 3k. There is no need to do “hundreds” of laps.
When addressing a honing issue, remove as many variables as possible. Honing, in-hand creates an additional variable. Place the stone on an elevated stone holder, a rubber holder, block of wood or another stone to give your hands clearance and steady the stone.
I suspect that you are not using enough pressure. You should be able to easily bevel set a razor in 10-20 circles and 20-40 laps, with 10-15 additional finish laps.
1k circle stria should easily be removed completely from the back of the bevel to the edge in 10-20 laps, completely. That the X stria remains after many laps, I suspect you are not using enough pressure.
I use a fair amount of pressure doing circles, pressure for the first 10 laps and lighten up for the next 10. Finish laps are with lite pressure.
Starting a new stone, first 10 with pressure, the next 10 with lighter pressure and finish laps with light pressure. These are ballpark numbers, you do as many as you need.
Do not do short strokes, do full strokes, and do more of an X stroke from corner to corner. Start with the heel on the stone, come straight down so the heel remains on the stone, the toe may be off the stone. After about 1.5- 2 inches start to curve the stroke, so that you shift the pressure across the blade from heel to toe, (imagine a marble on the razor at the heel and you want to roll the marble smoothly and slowly to the toe at the bottom of the stone), the toe ends about mid stone at the bottom, not the corner. The same stroke is use through the entire progression.
Also, your stone appears dry, use a squirt bottle, and keep a puddle on the stone, if needed add more water to keep the stone flooded.
The goal of the rolling X stroke is to shift the pressure from the heel to the toe, that is the rolling part of the stroke. You are not doing X strokes and your heel is not on the stone at all. If you continue to hone that way you will make a frown, may have already. It’s an easy fix.
There is no right or wrong way to hone, hand-held, how you flip, which stroke, whatever works. But I think lack of pressure is your main issue and honing with the stone on the bench will allow you to adjust your pressure easier. I have taught a number of folks to hone in-person, almost to a man, lack of pressure has been an issue. They read forums where weight of the blade honing is mantra, but if you do, you will need to do hundreds of laps.
Try different techniques and find what works for you, and likely it will not work for all razors, you have to adjust to hone the razor as it needs to be honed.
Use an X stroke, heel on the stone, end toe tip in the middle of the stone.
More pressure, start heavy, finish light with each stone.
Roll your pressure.
More water.
Stone on the bench.
How you flip the razor does not matter, I flip the razor spine first without issue, as do many folks, just do not hit the edge on the stone.
I am more concerned with the random angled X stria, (circle stria, I believe) in post beginning at 34, up to 39 and even some light random stria is visible in post 41.
All that random X stria should easily be removed in 10-20 laps on the 3k. There is no need to do “hundreds” of laps.
When addressing a honing issue, remove as many variables as possible. Honing, in-hand creates an additional variable. Place the stone on an elevated stone holder, a rubber holder, block of wood or another stone to give your hands clearance and steady the stone.
I suspect that you are not using enough pressure. You should be able to easily bevel set a razor in 10-20 circles and 20-40 laps, with 10-15 additional finish laps.
1k circle stria should easily be removed completely from the back of the bevel to the edge in 10-20 laps, completely. That the X stria remains after many laps, I suspect you are not using enough pressure.
I use a fair amount of pressure doing circles, pressure for the first 10 laps and lighten up for the next 10. Finish laps are with lite pressure.
Starting a new stone, first 10 with pressure, the next 10 with lighter pressure and finish laps with light pressure. These are ballpark numbers, you do as many as you need.
Do not do short strokes, do full strokes, and do more of an X stroke from corner to corner. Start with the heel on the stone, come straight down so the heel remains on the stone, the toe may be off the stone. After about 1.5- 2 inches start to curve the stroke, so that you shift the pressure across the blade from heel to toe, (imagine a marble on the razor at the heel and you want to roll the marble smoothly and slowly to the toe at the bottom of the stone), the toe ends about mid stone at the bottom, not the corner. The same stroke is use through the entire progression.
Also, your stone appears dry, use a squirt bottle, and keep a puddle on the stone, if needed add more water to keep the stone flooded.
The goal of the rolling X stroke is to shift the pressure from the heel to the toe, that is the rolling part of the stroke. You are not doing X strokes and your heel is not on the stone at all. If you continue to hone that way you will make a frown, may have already. It’s an easy fix.
There is no right or wrong way to hone, hand-held, how you flip, which stroke, whatever works. But I think lack of pressure is your main issue and honing with the stone on the bench will allow you to adjust your pressure easier. I have taught a number of folks to hone in-person, almost to a man, lack of pressure has been an issue. They read forums where weight of the blade honing is mantra, but if you do, you will need to do hundreds of laps.
Try different techniques and find what works for you, and likely it will not work for all razors, you have to adjust to hone the razor as it needs to be honed.
Use an X stroke, heel on the stone, end toe tip in the middle of the stone.
More pressure, start heavy, finish light with each stone.
Roll your pressure.
More water.
Stone on the bench.
Similar threads
