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Stropping more difficult than honing?

In this thread a couple guys mentioned that stropping is more difficult than honing. I'm fairly new at both, so maybe I'm missing something, but honing is a lot trickier for me. I always seem to have trouble getting a proper bevel set all the way to the heel. BUT... it's not like I ink my bevel before stropping so who knows if I'm hitting it everywhere. And I’ve noticed that my edge can be degraded by stropping after 1um film. Straight off 1um film it’s treetopping nicely, but then I’ll strop on linen then leather and find that it’s not treetopping as well as before.

All this makes me think that my stropping technique could be improved.

Typically I’ll do around 25 laps on linen and 25-50 laps on leather after each shave. Then before a shave I’ll another 25-50 laps on leather only, no linen. If I’m honing I’ll do 25-50 laps when I’m done on 1um film. Sometimes I’ll shave off that edge and sometimes I’ll go through a pasted balsa progression.

Are there some stropping techniques that I’m missing? And am I using the linen properly? I basically use it to clean/dry the edge after shaving, but I’ve also read that it can polish as well. I’m using a Tony Miller linen & horsehide strop.
 
It took me longer to learn how to strop "optimally", although I really didn't have any idea that my stropping could have been better.

I use a Tony Miller steerhide / flax component.

In the past I was pulling the strop too tight and using too much pressure. What works for me is giving the strop a slight bow and really taking my time and using weight of the blade. I maybe use flax linen once a week (20-25 passes), other than that I solely maintain on leather/clean the blade with palm stropping.

Granted, there are variables at play, but what I do works best for me. It really brings the edge back to a place where I want it, and maintains it that way for a LOT longer than stropping used to for me with a lot less passes. I stick with about 40 on leather before a shave (used to double it thinking my T.I.s with C135 steel needed it).


I also read that post and thought about it quite a bit. Frankly, I do agree.
 
I'm a novice as well, and I know my technique could definitely improve in both stropping and honing. Having said that, stropping has only ever improved my edges to date. Whereas honing has ocassionally, especially early, had no or even a deleterious effect.

As to which is more difficult? Well, when stropping involves multiple different strops, three different media (water, oil, lather), magnification (both a loupe and a microscope), hours of frustration medidative activity, an encyclopaedia of different tests involving body parts, different types of hair, and fruit ffs, and also stropping, then I'm pretty confident in saying that honing is the more difficult... :p
 
In the past I was pulling the strop too tight and using too much pressure. What works for me is giving the strop a slight bow and really taking my time and using weight of the blade. I maybe use flax linen once a week (20-25 passes), other than that I solely maintain on leather/clean the blade with palm stropping.
I'll give this a try. I pull the leather tight enough so that there's basically zero deflection while stropping. Less pressure seems to be better with all things straight razor, so I'll make sure I'm using a light touch.
 
Learning to strop well is very important. Everyone learns differently. Watching videos helped me. My lightbulb moment was learning to keep the spine on the leather and feeling the spine leading the motion. I think I picked this up from watching this video. At around 2:00 Alfredo mentions the bit about keeping the spine on the strop:

 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
When advising n00bies in SR stropping, I recommend that they strop with no noticeable deflection in the stop. The reasoning for this is that they tend to put some toque into the blade towards the edge and, if there is deflection, this can lead to a rounding of the edge.

You can properly strop with deflection in the strop provided you allow the blade's edge to just ride lightly on the leather surface without any blade toque. Then it is the pressure on the spine only that deflects the strop. This can be difficult for n00bies to understand and achieve.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
Lifting the spine off of he leather at the "flip" is not proper form. Keep he spine on the leather.
You are correct. I should have been paying more attention. I will make another video for the next Instructions issue.

Thank you for pointing it out.
 
I would never claim stropping is more difficult than honing. They are two distinct skills that must be mastered. Personally, I find stropping easier as I can get into a rhythm while stropping that serves me well.
 
Wouldn't stropping on leather placed on a flat surface and with a width that takes up the entire blade be easier than on loose leather with a narrow width?
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
Wouldn't stropping on leather placed on a flat surface and with a width that takes up the entire blade be easier than on loose leather with a narrow width?
Probably but we're is the fun and skill in that?
 
I finished honing a razor last night then stripped with lighter pressure. Linen then leather. My edge improved!

I also slowed down which helped a lot.

Lifting the spine off of he leather at the "flip" is not proper form. Keep the spine on the leather.
Not sure if I lifted the spine or not. I’ll pay attention this next time.
 
Wouldn't stropping on leather placed on a flat surface and with a width that takes up the entire blade be easier than on loose leather with a narrow width?

Not sure there are any rules. Sometimes I prefer a looser leather. May have to do with the weight of the razor. A 4/8 full hollow feels different on the leather than an old Wade & Butcher 7/8 near wedge :).

When I first started, I could not understand why anyone would take a 2.5 inch strop over a 3 inch. Now I enjoy stropping an edge in sections on a 2.5 (or 65 mm) wide strop.

Different strokes (pardon the pun)!
 
I finished honing a razor last night then stripped with lighter pressure. Linen then leather. My edge improved!

I also slowed down which helped a lot.


Not sure if I lifted the spine or not. I’ll pay attention this next time.

With the spine maintaining contact, try alternating 10 laps with and without the edge making contact - at slow speed. This was an eye opener for me.

I suspect (but can't prove) that the nicks in my first strop were the result of lifting the spine off the leather at the turnaround.
 
Yes I understand very well everyone's preferences (fun). I know that these preferences change over the course of experience (skill) but is it unreasonable, for a beginner, to start with something that is simple and efficient so as not to degrade the edge?

....same for honning tools...
 
“Straight off 1um film it’s treetopping nicely, but then I’ll strop on linen then leather and find that it’s not treetopping as well as before."

Too much pressure or dirty strop

Stropping seems deceptively easy, but it is easy to damage an edge with a single stroke on a strop.

It can take a year to master stropping and get to a point where you are consistently improving an edge, (remember a single stroke can damage an edge). Two step forward, one back is common.

Most edges requiring re-honing are because of stropping. Bad stropping or stropping on a dirty strop. All razors that I get in for honing have multiple deep scratches on the bevel and microchipped edges.

If the bevel and edge only touch your face and beard where do the deep scratches come from?

A dirty strop. All day and night, every day, airborne dust settles on your strops. How big is airborne dust? Larger than the finest stone or paste you used.

A razor edge cannot be seen with less than 1000 magnification, the real edge. So, it does not take much to damage or rip off the actual cutting edge. Improper stropping, or too much pressure will flex and eventually break off the cutting edge, causing a harsh shave. Dust on the strop will scratch the bevel and end in a chip at the edge. A razor left uncleaned with soap, skin, hair and blood on the edge and bevel will begin to rust overnight. Rust is Ferrous Oxide, an abrasive, but what size?

If not cleaned from the razor it will contaminate/paste a strop.

After your next shave clean your razor as you would normally, look at the bevel and edge with magnification. Yup, that muck is eating your edge and contaminating your strop.

So if you start with a dirty strop, you start in the hole, add pressure and bad technique deeper in the hole. Yea it can easily take a year to learn to strop, I have taught folks to hone in an hour, in person. The only way to learn to strop is to strop.

Go slow, never lift the spine from the strop, stop then flip, do not slam the edge into the strop, do not use too much downward pressure, and clean your strops. Taughtness of the strop does not matter that much, stropping razors on a paddle or on a bench causes more problems and the need/feel to use more pressure.

Yes, there is or can be a stropping progression, different levels of stropping polish. Stropping on leather is straightening and polishing the bevel and edge.

But that, is a whole other dark and deep rabbit hole.
 
I finished honing a razor last night then stripped with lighter pressure. Linen then leather. My edge improved!

I also slowed down which helped a lot.


Not sure if I lifted the spine or not. I’ll pay attention this next time.
My response was directed at @rbscebu who posted advice in the form of a video directed at people who he likes to call "n00bies".

The purpose of my reply was simple: If we're going to offer videos, documents, required reading and other information, directed at people just starting out (I personally detest the term "noobie"), that information had better be accurate.

Lifting the spine off of the strop at the flip is a big no-no. Anyone here who claims to know what they are doing should already know that.
 
I honed another razor today and the edge improved again with stropping. I think my problem was just going too fast. I thought I had it down after a few months but clearly not.

What’s a good way to keep a strop clean? It’s only a couple weeks old so it’s not like there’s years of crud built up on it. I figure the linen will get dirtier than the leather.
 
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