I tried the smoothest blade on the market (Derby) and it was a bloodbath. Now what?

[Dtownvino]

One thing, sharper doesn’t mean less cuts. Feathers notoriously bite skin. I think Gillette Platinum, Silver Blues, Nacet, Bic Chrome, etc….will server you a lot better. The bare minimum sharpness for a blade I’ll use is a shark chrome. I can’t even look at an Astra SP, still too dull for my beard coarseness.

 

[MovingToMars]

I never enjoyed Derby Extra blades, Derby Premium blades are far superior to the Derby Extra. These retailers who send a tuck off Derby Extra's when you buy a razor from them is the biggest mistake to send to a Newbie or a seasoned shaver IMO.

+3! Derby blades are are ‘bottom-tier’ for me also!

My preference is a ‘mild/moderate’ razor paired with a sharp blade! That‘s what works best for me. However, you need to try a variety of options to see what works best for you.

I suggest you try GSB, Nacet or Personna lab to see if your results improve.

Whoever told you Derby are top of the line was more interested in making a sale than helping you out.
There are many, myself included, who dislike Derby in any version.

Thank you so much for all your replies! I had no idea the Derby Extra blade was so disliked. I found it in a couple of 'mild' sample packs and in a bunch of lists online with titles like 'the perfect blades for beginners'. So when I cut myself severely, I didn't understand how that happened. This helped, thank you!

 

[MovingToMars]

-Razors, I know in EU Landia you don't have the same one's available. I won't make the mistake of recommending a razor, but there are some key things to think about before you decide to solve your problems with more razors. Number one is covered blade tabs, you shouldn't even consider razors without this feature except for legs. You already have some. Numero dos, blade reveal. Not blade exposure, how much the blade is sticking out of the top cap. This is going to further narrow your selection, maybe too much. The above mention Tatara razors have negative blade exposure which is great for sensitive areas, but have a bit much blade reveal. Not too much though, take a look and consider that the upper limit. Blade support is number three and a lot of adjustables lack this. Looking from the side, if the blade is clamped in the middle of the razor and hanging out the side this is not a good start. If it has low blade reveal, it may be OK, but it may not. All of these things will all but prevent user error accidents. Or lessen them to the point that you actually feel like you dodged a bullet. Aggression levels for different areas are a further discussion, but I consider these the baseline for razor candidates.

-Blades, there is a lot that can be said and there is some actual testing that has been done. I choose blades based on what my skin can handle and then choose the razor based on how close I want to shave. Blades that are too sharp for your skin will cause what are called weepers and the obvious, and not so obvious, irritation. There are micro cuts that take time to discover. The Voskhod blades that are upside down and what we would call a medium sharpness blade and are some of the smoothest available regardless of sharpness. They are pretty sharp though, too much for some people. I would suggest you find blades that you can call a baseline when asking for advice, like those nice Gillette Platinums. Which are technically sharper than the Voskhods, but may or may not seem like it to you at this point.

-Technique, it is everything. Not having shaved one's face, I think it easy to learn bad habits or no clear idea to start with. You aren't working with or against gravity, unless you are shaving standing up. The thing is, you need a long flat area of skin and you need to really focus on your angle and stroke so you have it in muscle memory. Carelessly placing the razor and shaving is just waiting for the next nick. Do you know whether you are placing the razor steep or shallow, that is a rhetorical question? If you don't then you need to spend some time, it's worth it in the end. Curved surfaces and angle of attack are why you are getting slice cuts. Placing the razor right on the apex of a curve is almost guaranteed to cause this, you need to change the direction you start from or you need need to find a strategy to flatten that area before placing the razor there. I have to be careful what I say on here, but you should be able to pull skin slightly to one side an curved areas in order to shave them. But it might require changing your body position to accomplish. And you need to plot these out for every area that has different concerns. It can all go relatively fast once you have it worked out, but you can't randomly hack and swipe like every body area is the same without trouble. Eventually, you can improve closeness, but you need consistent technique first.

I admit that a cartridge allows you to just treat body shaving like cutting up vegetables for dinner, mindlessly get the job done without much thought. Safety razors both require and reward improving your technique.

Well that was a fun read! I could probably help, but I am still trying to digest all that.

Welcome to B&B though.

Thank you, and sorry for rambling on. I have trouble being brief, but I'm very grateful for your technical explanation.

RAZORS
So I chewed a bit on this part because I would like to eliminate user error, but I'm not sure I understand correctly.

1. Covered blade tabs: this is indeed essential, I figured this out the hard way
2. Blade reveal: there is a nice chart on this website, so I think I understand this
3. Blade support: I'm not sure what good support looks like. Does this mean that the blade simply can't move?

With regards to 3, I've noticed that the two adjustable razors adjust in a different way. When you turn the dial on the Gillette Fatboy clone, not only does the guard move up/down, but it also bends the blade further on the tightest settings. When you turn the dial on the Merkur Futur clone, nothing happens to the blade itself, only the guard moves up and down to create a bigger/smaller blade gap. For both razors, it looks as though you can switch between positive and negative blade exposure (I'm not entirely sure, but it looks that way to the naked eye). Is one way better than the other? Both adjustables clearly lower the risk of user error on the lower settings but lower settings also require more precision to shave at all (I skip hairs if I'm not careful). I haven't noticed a blade that wasn't secure in any of the four safety razors.

BLADES
This is interesting, I was thinking the other way around; pick a razor first, pair that with a blade second. The problem with the question of which blade your skin can handle is that the skin on my legs seems to have different tolerance compared to other parts of the skin. But I'm sure this is the same for men, especially those who shave their heads as well. So do you pick the blade that the most sensitive part of your skin can still handle? Weakest link style?

For instance: today was a second shave with a Wilkinson blade in the Merkur Futur clone for me. I ended up with 1 tiny nick on the knee and 1 small weeper on the shin. I nicked the knee on setting 0.5 (!) and hurt the shin on setting 2, I think. Both were user errors caused by inexperience, I'm afraid. I shaved armpits and some more unmentionable parts of the skin on setting 3.5 with no issue whatsoever. The result was, as expected: decent, but not as close as I would like. Does this mean that the Wilkinson blade is actually a tad sharp for me? (I'm starting to get the feeling that sharpness isn't the only relevant identifying feature of a DE blade.)

TECHNIQUE
Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. I couldn't really find in-depth instructions on body shaving with a safety razor, other than instructions for specific razors, which sounded like 'keep the razor at a 30-degree angle on the skin, don't press down, move blade up against the grain, done!' I'm not really sure how I'm doing.

Actually, I try to keep the angle as neutral as possible. So not steep, nor shallow, but in the middle. A guy on this forum a while back described how his shaving technique improved after someone told him not to think about the guard or the cap, and that the guard doesn't have to touch the skin at all. So he learned to shave in the middle, blade first. That's basically my aim. I thought that's what you were supposed to do?

Having said that, it's hard to keep track of the angle sometimes, especially on the knees. I shave them bent (sitting down) because that stretches the skin well, but it's like shaving 2 big lightbulbs; the angle needs to be continuously changing. I feel the blade sharply sometimes in the changing angle and the razor can also 'jump' over some bump or other. A bald head would probably pose a similar challenge. It might be just a lack of practice. Ankles are hard as well, but that has always been the case. Even with cartridges, I'd sometimes get a nasty 5-striped weeper. It seems that the problem is always the skin over bones. Shaving skin that covers more fatty/muscly tissue, like the calves, is a lot easier, a lot more forgiving. Maybe I do press a little too much still?

The advantage of a beard is also the audible feedback. I noticed it in YouTube videos, the loud scraping of the blade over the beard hairs that I think gives you information about how you're doing. Obviously, the feedback of removing the thin hairs on my legs isn't going to break through the sound barrier, I have to do it mostly by feel. I can't even see the blonde-ish hairs on 80% of my legs in our shower, so I usually have no way of knowing if a stroke with a razor was successful, other than that I felt the blade on my skin and a bit of shaving foam was removed. (Then again, the advantage of legs is you only need one pass.) Shaving armpits does come with audible and visual feedback, and I think that's part of why I rarely cut myself there despite the weird challenge of trying to shave a deep hollow. Maybe I should generally start shaving on the inside of the lower leg where there's a strip of slightly darker hair on smooth skin, just to calibrate.

True; a cartridge allows for fast, mindless, yanking around and this can be practical in a hurry. But I don't mind paying attention to a double-edge blade. I quite like it. I wouldn't call it zen exactly, but the sharpness of the blade and the slight risk forces me to concentrate on the movements and the feel of the blade on the skin and this does seem to rest the mind as well, somehow. Does this make sense? And it only takes a few extra minutes, really. But a bit less risk and some better results would be nice.

 

[MovingToMars]

Some of my girlfriends like me to shave their legs. They say it makes them feel pampered.

When shaving my girlfriends' legs I have always used a traditional straight razor, the same as I use on my face. I do their leg shaving in four parts; lower half left leg, lower half right leg, upper half left leg and upper half right leg. I don't move from one part to another until after the first part is completed.

For me, shaving legs is very similar to me face shaving. Preparation is very important. The part is first thoroughly washed with an appropriate bar soap (my preference now is Pears Transparent (India)) followed by a good rinsing to remove all soap residue. While doing all this, I am mentally nothing the grain direction of the hairs to be shaved.

I then apply a shave-soap stick (like tallow Tabac) and lather with a synthetic shaving brush.

The first pass with a straight razor is done with the grain (WTG). The part is then re-lathered and a second pass performed against the grain (ATG).

My girls seem pleased with the results as they often come back for more when they visit.

They never asked me to shave their legs while I was previously shaving my face with a cartridge. Me shaving their legs only started after I was shaving with straight razors. They enjoy watching me straight razor shave. My face.

Thank you for your detailed description of the process! (By the way, girlfriends, as in, plural? I feel like I should congratulate you.) So you do 2 passes of the legs. Interesting. I'm not sure my skin would appreciate 2 passes, even if the first one were with the grain. Definitely something to try if the results are that good.

I understand them watching you, shaving with a classic blade is interesting somehow. Whether it's on Netflix, or reviews/tutorials on YouTube or in real life, it's just a fascinating process. I find myself watching 22-minute video reviews by Mark Szorady without skipping anything, even though I normally fast-forward that type of videos. It's the simple joy, I guess.

 

[APBinNCA]

With regards to 3, I've noticed that the two adjustable razors adjust in a different way. When you turn the dial on the Gillette Fatboy clone, not only does the guard move up/down, but it also bends the blade further on the tightest settings. When you turn the dial on the Merkur Futur clone, nothing happens to the blade itself, only the guard moves up and down to create a bigger/smaller blade gap. For both razors, it looks as though you can switch between positive and negative blade exposure (I'm not entirely sure, but it looks that way to the naked eye). Is one way better than the other? Both adjustables clearly lower the risk of user error on the lower settings but lower settings also require more precision to shave at all (I skip hairs if I'm not careful). I haven't noticed a blade that wasn't secure in any of the four safety razors.

Yes you have the idea with these adjustables. If you set a plastic ruler, or old credit card, across the cap and safety bar you can see the shave plane at different settings. As the bar moves down, the blade moves into tho shave plane(positive exposure). Also the more a blade is bent, the more rigid it will be. But it will also feel more mild, the skin is contacting more on the side of the blade edge. Also worth considering, that I forgot to mention, is some razors do have neutral exposure, but a rather large gap that can grab skin. Blade support, you would see part of the base plate under the blade almost all the way out to the edge instead of the blade overhanging the lather passages. The Tatara razors leave about 2mm of blade hanging out and is very rigid, but also safer. Blade support may not matter as much depending on the areas being shaven, but an excessively noisy razor is one that is chattering and that can lead to irritation. With the adjustables, you can accidentally experience this by not closing the top down fully and blade will physically move around when shaving. Chattering is a shorter, faster movement of the blade.

So do you pick the blade that the most sensitive part of your skin can still handle? Weakest link style?

I brought this up as something to consider because I tried all the different possible combinations of mild razor/super sharp blade, mild blade/aggressive razor. I just feel that especially for body shaving, too much of either will get you in trouble without trying! Ultimately, if you improve your technique and are still getting weepers regularly then I think you can answer the question of what should I do. I personally won't put up with anything that disturbs skin that I am shaving over daily. I frequently straight razor shave and many people don't find them as sharp as they imagine they would be, but are amazed that they seemingly don't want to harm your skin. I transferred that standard over to safety razors, it's probably too high of a bar. Like I said, the Voskhods are super smooth and adequately sharp for anything you are doing. Same goes for the Platinums, but those might be a little harsher if you mess up. I personally would assume my technique is at fault if I was getting any nicks or irritation from those and would keep using them until I get it figured out. The Wilkinson Swords(DE made) start out very smooth, but the underlying blade has been tested to get very sharp on the third or fourth shave. One way to deal with this is to bin blades one shave sooner the next time if they go from amazing to ouch.

Having said that, it's hard to keep track of the angle sometimes, especially on the knees. I shave them bent (sitting down) because that stretches the skin well, but it's like shaving 2 big lightbulbs; the angle needs to be continuously changing. I feel the blade sharply sometimes in the changing angle and the razor can also 'jump' over some bump or other. A bald head would probably pose a similar challenge. It might be just a lack of practice. Ankles are hard as well, but that has always been the case. Even with cartridges, I'd sometimes get a nasty 5-striped weeper. It seems that the problem is always the skin over bones. Shaving skin that covers more fatty/muscly tissue, like the calves, is a lot easier, a lot more forgiving. Maybe I do press a little too much still?

For area that are rounded, that you have manoeuvring room, I would suggest going steep safety bar first. This is similar to head shaving as you say. The thing is if you are pulling instead of pushing, the razor should glide over the rounded areas. You place the razor down right on the bar and lift up until the blade touches down, you can adjust your grip position to the balance point of the razor in order to maintain the optimum blade contact so you are merely guiding the razor. This would be allot easier way to reach your ankles too as the handle will be nearly parallel to your leg. But it is tricky, I can shave around my jaw while changing the angle on the move though. What I prefer to do is shave so the blade edge will end up in open air and then go back and pull the skin on the remaining spot maybe? You could break it down into three strokes; two toward the centre and one whatever direction works best. It will get easier once you get a lighter touch down, the necessity of pushing with the cartridge just invites trouble. I can shave sideways right along my jawbone now, but never thought I would even attempt that when I started.

I can't even see the blonde-ish hairs on 80% of my legs in our shower, so I usually have no way of knowing if a stroke with a razor was successful, other than that I felt the blade on my skin and a bit of shaving foam was removed.

This is where "removing the lather not the hair" comes in. You can judge by how the lather trail looks how well you did. This is how you shave with a straight razor, you don't go by feel. Yes sound does help, but the focus is on removing the lather with just a slight film left behind. Unfortunately, that means feeling the area and re-lathering to try again. I think you will get consistent enough in time that you won't have to keep checking. Soft hair is one area I can't help much with!

(I do have soft hairs on the back of my neck and can't hear or see them even using a mirror, but I am able to shave there weekly. I have to do the method mentioned above to find out how I did and the skin in quit sensitive to over shaving.)

 

[rbscebu]

Thank you for your detailed description of the process! (By the way, girlfriends, as in, plural? I feel like I should congratulate you.) So you do 2 passes of the legs. Interesting. I'm not sure my skin would appreciate 2 passes, even if the first one were with the grain. Definitely something to try if the results are that good.

I understand them watching you, shaving with a classic blade is interesting somehow. Whether it's on Netflix, or reviews/tutorials on YouTube or in real life, it's just a fascinating process. I find myself watching 22-minute video reviews by Mark Szorady without skipping anything, even though I normally fast-forward that type of videos. It's the simple joy, I guess.

Yes, it's plural. I am not a great believer in monogamy and I expect my girlfriends to be similarly inclined.

When shaving with a straight razor (SR), either traditional or replaceable blade type, you really learn about shaving with light (no) pressure and the correct blade angle for the blade's edge is all about. With reasonable care, SR shaving is no where near as dangerous as many people believe. Me, I'm scared to shave with a "safety" razor as I cannot see the blade's edge on my skin. "Safety" razor shavers are the fearless ones.

With both correct and a good technique, there is no skin irritation or damage when SR shaving. You can then do multiple passes both WTG and ATG. Most find that it takes about 15 to 30 daily straight razor shaves to get everything sorted out and working properly.

If you ever took up leg shaving with a straight razor, you would certainly have bragging rights with your friends .

Here are some instructions on SR shaving:

Traditional SR Shaving Instructions for Beginners - Rev. F

Attached is a copy of the latest revision of Traditional SR Shaving Instructions For Beginners (Rev. F). It now includes all sections; Shaving Instructions, Pasted Balsa Strops and Lapping Films Honing From Bevel Set to Shave-Ready. It's a big file but a wealth of knowledge.

www.badgerandblade.com

How safe is SR shaving? Just think of this. When most men only shaved with SRs, the average life expectancy was about 40yo. Since "safety" razor came in vogue, the average life expectancy has steadily increasing to 70yo or more.

 

[Invicta]

Welcome to B&B.
That was an interesting read and I have a few comments for you. Forgive any repitition from the preceding replies.

I'm confused. After 3 months of using several razors and double-edge blades, I really thought I was getting the hang of it. Then I tried the Derby Extra (which my local shaving expert considers a 1 on a sharpness scale of 1 to 10) and my 'shaving experience' turned into a horror movie.

The shift from a pivoting cartridge to a DE razor does require a considerable change in technique. You don't have to consider the blade angle with a cartridge because the pivoting head does that for you but a DE has a fixed head and you have to constantly adjust the blade angle to the area being shaved. Usually short razor strokes are recommended.
Razor blades are subjective topic but fortunately there are many to choose from.

I ordered a safety razor which came with 15 DE blades and I was so excited when the package arrived that I immediately hopped into the shower, placed the razor on my ankle and on auto-pilot drew it straight up whilst pressing down, just like in the commercials. HOOO BURN. That was pretty dumb, especially since I'd already seen some YouTube videos of a happy man who kept saying: 'remember gentleman, let the razor do all the work'. I just forgot. But I liked the first results enough to keep trying (despite losing a strip of tan).

That is why you see references about no pressure and correct blade angle. Get this right and you should have no irritation, nicks, cuts or weepers. Do remember that a good lather is just as important for a good shave so don't rush the preparation of the area to be shaved. This may help; Lathering | Badger & Blade
If gel works for you that is okay, from what I read it is generally slicker than the foam from a can.

I've found out that I have sensitive shins, tricky ankles, bumpy knees, an impractically deep left armpit and a bikini area that, counter-intuitively, seems to require a more aggressive approach than the rest of me. Now I read on this forum that an adjustable safety razor would 'ruin your technique', but is there any way around it when one is attempting to body shave with a single safety razor?

I think an adjustable razor is ideal for shaving the different body parts. You can adjust the aggressiveness to suit different areas.
Do bear in mind that some areas may need more than one pass so don't expect to remove the stubble in one pass. Armpits in particilar need mutiple passes from different directions for a really close shave as the hair grows in different directions.
Ankles are mostly bone with changing contours and covered in a thin layer of skin so shave carefully around the ankles.
There is a lot of loose skin over the knees so bend the knee to stretch the skin when shaving that area. It is easy get a cut if the blade grabs the loose skin.

Razor #4 is a Merkur Futur clone with a cap that does cover the sides and it's so good. It doesn't provide the best grip in the shower when you need to turn the handle, but I love it anyway. Setting 0.5-1.0 is perfect for ankles and knees, I use 1.5 for shins, 2 for calves and 3-3.5 for armpits etc.

If that is the best razor for you then stick with that razor. It is better to work with just one razor. I would have thought razor #3 would work just as well and probably has a good grip.

I've mostly been using Gillette Platinum and Wilkinson Sword DE blades. The results are quite similar. The blades are good and durable, but I kept thinking I'd like the shave to be just a little closer, especially the armpits

The Gillette Platinum would be the best blades but also Gillette Silver Blue or Nacet are worth a try. I cannot comment on the Wilkinsons as I rarely use them.
Gillette Platinum blades have a good blend of smoothness and sharpness. The Feather blades are sharp but not as smooth as Gillette Silver Blue blades.

Actually, I try to keep the angle as neutral as possible. So not steep, nor shallow, but in the middle. A guy on this forum a while back described how his shaving technique improved after someone told him not to think about the guard or the cap, and that the guard doesn't have to touch the skin at all. So he learned to shave in the middle, blade first. That's basically my aim. I thought that's what you were supposed to do?

I think you have that correct; neutral blade angle or design angle as it is sometimes referred is probably best and applies to any razor. The cap and safety bar should be in contact with the skin, this may help; Blade Angle | Badger & Blade

 

[lasta]

Skirt wearing, pink, bikini, beach, full sun, wet body...sorry where we we?

Oh right, razors. Get yourself a Baili BR171. Very cheap, but shaves just like your modern Tech with the tabs covered. Personally, I don't care much about blade rigidity, but no lacking here. Modern Wolfmen are descended from this haha.

I would match that with one of your longer handles as that's what I prefer for shaving areas I can't see. But you seem like a flexible women, maybe that's not a problem for you

 

[Old Hippie]

Welcome! No matter what your shaving "context" you'll find a lot of information here.

Derby blades...no. Just no. I tried them for another reason -- they are just a wee bit wider between edges than some other blades and I wanted to see if that would "up the shave" I was getting. Could have gotten a closer shave with an old credit card.

But using a wider blade may help. The most often-recommended one I see is the Kai DE blade, clocking in at a millimetre wider which can be pretty significant.

Another trick some use is to place a second DE blade between the cutting blade and the baseplate. This requires carefully using a pair of good scissors to trim the edges off the shim. (Wear gloves, eye protection and close-toed shoes) This will increase the effective blade gap which may also affect the blade exposure (not "reveal"). I have a couple of razors I shim, and get good shaves.

A non-adjustable razor can be "twist adjusted" by slacking off the handle 1/8 to 1/4 turn. Some care is needed, as some razors don't have a lot of blade tension to spare and it's easy to go too far. Loose blades don't shave worth a toot and may also cut you. I've had it happen.

O.H.

 

[timetofly]

Whoever told you Derby are top of the line was more interested in making a sale than helping you out.
There are many, myself included, who dislike Derby in any version.

Derbys are the BEST!When it comes to hats, Soap Box, and horse racing

 

[ivan_101]

Out of the 3 Derby models the Derby Usta is the only Derby blade I would buy. But... I got a sample of the newer blue label Derby Extra, and I have to admit they were better than the old green ones I have (bought 10-11 years ago).

 

[Attog]

I like aggressive razors and aggressive blades more then dull I mean smooth ones. Why? Because if you go with aggressive razor/ blade you go with you pass and boom, whiskers - gone. It is better for your skin - less passing over it.
if you go with dull blade guess what, you do your pass and whiskers still plenty there so what you’re gonna do? That’s right, put more pressure and/or passes to get rid of whiskers. And since dull blade is still plenty sharp to damage your skin you end up with irritation or cuts.
That is the same reason why I don’t go x zillion uses per blade. Once blade is getting dull I take a new one.

 

[LMcC]

As a guy that doesn’t like a lot of excess body hair, and also a cyclist (shaved legs in the summer, sometimes at least) what has worked best for me is a somewhat mild open comb razor - I prefer the Merkur 25c when not shaving my face - and a reasonably sharp blade. Usually Astra SS, Gillette 7 O’clock black, or Wizamet. Unlike my face, I do body shaving in the shower, and just hand lather Dr. Bronners liquid soap and apply lotion afterwards. I don’t try to lather a whole leg at a time, but more like this side of calf, then that side. Hope that’s a little helpful.

 

[MovingToMars]

The Gillette Platinum blades that your using are great and among my favorites because they’re very smooth. Switch the handles from razor #1 to razor #2 so that it weighs more and performs better. Also get some glycerin soap to rub on prior to building your lather. Happy shaves!

No way, this actually worked! Thanks! The blade is completely secure, I'll try this.

The uncovered blade tabs are unfortunate though, so the Gillette 7'O Clock Silver is legs-only. But I did like the mildness of this one. Who knows, maybe I'll end up using 2 different razors on the regular.

 

[MovingToMars]

Welcome to B&B!

Derby blades are so dull you probably cut yourself using way too much pressure in an attempt to get them to cut.

So many changing angles. Pressure is not your friend, but correct razor angle is exceedingly important. It will improve with practice.

At the risk of getting thrown off the forum, I'm going to suggest Bic Metal disposable razors as a possibility.

Thank you!

Well, that is possible, I suppose. But I thought I was being really careful, especially after the first cuts. Maybe the blade is thinner or more flexible or something? Or maybe quality control isn't great at Derby and there's a bit more variation in sharpness from one blade to the next. Yeah, I'm definitely going to practise the safe angles, thanks!

I do have a BIC double-edge blade, somewhere in the testing queue. Maybe I could start there, but I'll put the Bic Metal on the list of alternatives for when I've exhausted all the safety razor options and desperation strikes. Let's hope I'm not buying those in a couple of months.

 

[MovingToMars]

I Got my Feather ASD2 early in shaving and I am glad I did. My skin improved so much and it's a great razor. I can probably sell it for nearly what I paid. Idk if the Masamune is quite as mild or if I would have gotten such great results if I hadn't used the Feather first. Tbh maybe?. The reason I like the Masamune more is cause new. Smaller handle and adjustable. I don't think picking either one is a gamble really.
Yes you would get better results with either than a lessor razor.

This makes sense, actually. Oh, and for the health of your skin, it's absolutely worth it, I agree. I've read this in several reviews and if a good safety razor means the difference between suffering skin irritation and not, it's almost like a medical cure. I have to say that cartridge razors never gave me much irritation though unless I used dull cartridges for too long. That gave me strawberry skin; bright red dots. Sharp blades, DE or otherwise, don't trigger this, regardless of the brand. So this isn't a factor for me in choosing a razor.

It's not a gamble in general I think, I meant a gamble for me because I'm worried about my ability to handle a safety razor well enough. The problem is that the Merkur Futur clone has exceptionally good reviews. It's also called the QSHAVE or the Ming Shi 2000s and people who own the real thing say it's nearly indistinguishable. So what does it say if I can't get a razor like that to work for me well enough? It's a Catch-22. I would like better results, and to get better results I should probably buy a better safety razor, but because I haven't seen much close to the results I'm hoping for with the safety razors I currently own, I'm not confident an expensive true quality razor would make a big enough difference, making me hesitant to invest, which means I'll keep shaving with the off-brand razors, which might be why I'll never get the results that could convince me to buy better quality. There you go. But I am curious, so at some point I'll just walk into a specialty shop to drool at the good stuff.

Oh here are mine. They do each look gorgeous in person. I love the Masamune but most people still say the Feather is prettier. The handle is grippier. The Masamune has a sufficient grip, but feather has uncanny amazing grip, and that helped me a lot.
Otoh. Once you get good you will want to experiment and the Masamune can use different plates and heads. Definitely the open comb isn't for a beginner. I hear the regular solid comb masamune is slightly more aggressive than Feather. Which I think is doable for a new person to learn on for sure.

Really? I think the Masamune looks like a designer safety razor. The grippier handle on the Feather seems like a big plus though. The handle on my fake Futur gets so slippery I'm considering wrapping a rubber band around it.

 

[MovingToMars]

I am in the camp that dislikes Derby blades. There are a number of smooth and efficient, highly regarded blades from which to choose, for example Gillette Silver Blues and Nacets and Israeli Personnas and Personna Lab Blues. I'd say any of those would be a pretty safe bet. I am also in the camp that likes a mild stainless steel razor. I like to let the weight of the razor do much of the work. I like the carefree nature of a mild blade. It is easy for me to get BBS with three comfortable passes using an Edwin Jagger DE89 (mild but ZAMAK, not stainless steel), a Feather AS-D2, or an Above the Tie Windsor with a mild plate, my current and all time favorite, razor. Using the Windsor and a Lab Blue, every shave is BBS, smooth and comfortable, and irritation, nick, and weeper free. Just take your time going with, across, and against the grain with minimal pressure. Also find the lather that feels best. It may or may not look like a white cloud. I prefer a thickish soap layer on the wet end of the spectrum but dry enough not to drip. It takes about five seconds to load enough for three passes using Martin de Candre or Pre de Provence.

Thanks, this really gives me an idea of how you achieve a weeper-free shave. And the DE89 is really affordable, great tip! What do you think of the grip of the handle though?

And I'll add those blades to my Excel sheet

 

[Oliviamaynard]

This makes sense, actually. Oh, and for the health of your skin, it's absolutely worth it, I agree. I've read this in several reviews and if a good safety razor means the difference between suffering skin irritation and not, it's almost like a medical cure. I have to say that cartridge razors never gave me much irritation though unless I used dull cartridges for too long. That gave me strawberry skin; bright red dots. Sharp blades, DE or otherwise, don't trigger this, regardless of the brand. So this isn't a factor for me in choosing a razor.

It's not a gamble in general I think, I meant a gamble for me because I'm worried about my ability to handle a safety razor well enough. The problem is that the Merkur Futur clone has exceptionally good reviews. It's also called the QSHAVE or the Ming Shi 2000s and people who own the real thing say it's nearly indistinguishable. So what does it say if I can't get a razor like that to work for me well enough? It's a Catch-22. I would like better results, and to get better results I should probably buy a better safety razor, but because I haven't seen much close to the results I'm hoping for with the safety razors I currently own, I'm not confident an expensive true quality razor would make a big enough difference, making me hesitant to invest, which means I'll keep shaving with the off-brand razors, which might be why I'll never get the results that could convince me to buy better quality. There you go. But I am curious, so at some point I'll just walk into a specialty shop to drool at the good stuff.



Really? I think the Masamune looks like a designer safety razor. The grippier handle on the Feather seems like a big plus though. The handle on my fake Futur gets so slippery I'm considering wrapping a rubber band around it.

Yeah. People seem to love the Feather. People into DE shaving like the Masamune people not like the ASD2.
The grippy handle is very nice. One design feature of ASD2 other than the extra grippy handle that you would prefer is the ASD2 has zero tab overhang. The whole blade is covered. The Masamune leaves a tiny bit uncovered

 

[MovingToMars]

One thing, sharper doesn’t mean less cuts. Feathers notoriously bite skin. I think Gillette Platinum, Silver Blues, Nacet, Bic Chrome, etc….will server you a lot better. The bare minimum sharpness for a blade I’ll use is a shark chrome. I can’t even look at an Astra SP, still too dull for my beard coarseness.

Thank you for the suggestions! The Platinum and Nacet blades keep coming up, or so it seems. I'm starting to think I'm just going to have to experiment with those and other blades mentioned to see which one is both safe and versatile enough. I got a little hesitant to try new blades after the Derby incident.

 

[MovingToMars]

Yes you have the idea with these adjustables. If you set a plastic ruler, or old credit card, across the cap and safety bar you can see the shave plane at different settings. As the bar moves down, the blade moves into tho shave plane(positive exposure). Also the more a blade is bent, the more rigid it will be. But it will also feel more mild, the skin is contacting more on the side of the blade edge. Also worth considering, that I forgot to mention, is some razors do have neutral exposure, but a rather large gap that can grab skin. Blade support, you would see part of the base plate under the blade almost all the way out to the edge instead of the blade overhanging the lather passages. The Tatara razors leave about 2mm of blade hanging out and is very rigid, but also safer. Blade support may not matter as much depending on the areas being shaven, but an excessively noisy razor is one that is chattering and that can lead to irritation. With the adjustables, you can accidentally experience this by not closing the top down fully and blade will physically move around when shaving. Chattering is a shorter, faster movement of the blade.

I brought this up as something to consider because I tried all the different possible combinations of mild razor/super sharp blade, mild blade/aggressive razor. I just feel that especially for body shaving, too much of either will get you in trouble without trying! Ultimately, if you improve your technique and are still getting weepers regularly then I think you can answer the question of what should I do. I personally won't put up with anything that disturbs skin that I am shaving over daily. I frequently straight razor shave and many people don't find them as sharp as they imagine they would be, but are amazed that they seemingly don't want to harm your skin. I transferred that standard over to safety razors, it's probably too high of a bar. Like I said, the Voskhods are super smooth and adequately sharp for anything you are doing. Same goes for the Platinums, but those might be a little harsher if you mess up. I personally would assume my technique is at fault if I was getting any nicks or irritation from those and would keep using them until I get it figured out. The Wilkinson Swords(DE made) start out very smooth, but the underlying blade has been tested to get very sharp on the third or fourth shave. One way to deal with this is to bin blades one shave sooner the next time if they go from amazing to ouch.

For area that are rounded, that you have manoeuvring room, I would suggest going steep safety bar first. This is similar to head shaving as you say. The thing is if you are pulling instead of pushing, the razor should glide over the rounded areas. You place the razor down right on the bar and lift up until the blade touches down, you can adjust your grip position to the balance point of the razor in order to maintain the optimum blade contact so you are merely guiding the razor. This would be allot easier way to reach your ankles too as the handle will be nearly parallel to your leg. But it is tricky, I can shave around my jaw while changing the angle on the move though. What I prefer to do is shave so the blade edge will end up in open air and then go back and pull the skin on the remaining spot maybe? You could break it down into three strokes; two toward the centre and one whatever direction works best. It will get easier once you get a lighter touch down, the necessity of pushing with the cartridge just invites trouble. I can shave sideways right along my jawbone now, but never thought I would even attempt that when I started.

This is where "removing the lather not the hair" comes in. You can judge by how the lather trail looks how well you did. This is how you shave with a straight razor, you don't go by feel. Yes sound does help, but the focus is on removing the lather with just a slight film left behind. Unfortunately, that means feeling the area and re-lathering to try again. I think you will get consistent enough in time that you won't have to keep checking. Soft hair is one area I can't help much with!

(I do have soft hairs on the back of my neck and can't hear or see them even using a mirror, but I am able to shave there weekly. I have to do the method mentioned above to find out how I did and the skin in quit sensitive to over shaving.)

There are so many gems in your reply, that I think I'm going to print some of your advice. This is really helpful! Thank you so much for taking the time to type all of this. I'm sort of studying all the details now and will implement the instructions next time. I'll post the results later.

My sample pack happens to contain two Voshkod blades, so I can try those at the same time. Hah, yeah, the Platinums do punish a lack of focus it might be fun to compare them.

Frankly, I don't think that 'no bleeding' is too high a bar? Is it? I won't put up forever with cuts that are serious enough I have to keep pressure on them after shaving. I don't mind a bit of irritation or micro-cuts though. For now, I'm just hoping to get to a point where over 50% of the shaves is weeper-free. I'll keep you posted.