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My First Natural Finish

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
I think it was around the same price as the actual stone.
If you get one, post on B&B with how you found using it. I am interested in seeing how others find it to use and if I was just lucky to get the one I got.
 
Going to give it a miss, I bought a c12k years ago when they were being talked about from here and a certain seller who was selling them.
 
I'm glad I read this thread when I'm getting my sets together. I'm making the transition into SR from Japanese knives. So all I need is a good finishing stone. I understand diamond paste is easier and fools proof. But staying with natural seems true to myself from avoiding disposable products.
 
I'm glad I read this thread when I'm getting my sets together. I'm making the transition into SR from Japanese knives. So all I need is a good finishing stone. I understand diamond paste is easier and fools proof. But staying with natural seems true to myself from avoiding disposable products.
Now all you need is disposable income.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
My summary of my Adaee #12000 Cnat:

I consider this whetstone that I received to be good value for money. It came almost as flat as I could lap it. A very hard stone and slow to cut compared to my Chinese synthetics and does not develop any self-slurry with just honing. I had to use a worn 600 grit diamond plate to get some slurry from this stone.

Although I am experienced in honing on synthetics, it took me a lot of time and effort before I could start to get a really good edge off this Cnat, my first natural whetstone. There was quite a learning curve for me. Once I started to master this Cnat, I found that I could get edges starting to match my diamond pasted balsa strops progressions, not yet consistently but that may come with experience.

In concussion, I am happy that I purchased this Adaee #12000. It has been a great introduction for me into honing on natural whetstones. I am sure that there are probably better natural whetstones to be had out there but not currently within my budget. The Cnat that I received can match my edges in both keenness and comfort that I get off diamond pasted balsa.

Can this Cnat replace my lapping films? It sure can, just with a bit more effort.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
Next week, I will be returning to my Cnat honing and trying some more of the suggestions I have been given in this thread.
 
I agree. I should have added that I am now finishing my Cnat progressions with edge trailing laps when using clear water with just the faintest amount of lather.

Earlier in this thread I detailed my initial normal Cnat full progression. Here is what my full Cnat progression now consists of:
  1. Start with a shave-ready edge off an 8k or higher whetstone or 1.0μm flim.
  2. Develop a light slurry on the Cnat using a 600 diamond plate.
  3. Fifteen laps plus 3 pull strokes.
  4. End-for-end the Cnat
  5. Repeat step 3
  6. Add a little water if needed.
  7. Repeat steps 3 to 5.
  8. Rinse blade under running water to remove all traces of slurry.
  9. Add water, now down to no slurry.
  10. Repeat steps 3 to 8.
  11. Rinse blade thoroughly under running water.
  12. Add water with just a small amount of lather.
  13. Fifteen laps plus 6 short X strokes.
  14. End-for-end the Cnat.
  15. Repeat step 13.
  16. Add a little water with lather if needed.
  17. Repeat steps 13 to 15.
  18. Repeat step 11.
  19. Rinse blade thoroughly under running water and dry.
  • Cnat is bench mounted or may be held in hand if preferred.
  • All laps and strokes are done with weight of blade only as pressure.
  • All laps and strokes are done with edge leading except when including lather with the water. Then they are done edge trailing.
Once all is finished, if needed, protect the blade from oxidation until use. Just prior to use, strop the blade on a hanging clean leather strop about 60 laps - weight of blade only and strop held tight enough so that there is no noticeable deflection in the strop while stropping.
I tried to count the laps and it was about 200 laps. How often would you do this procedure to refresh the edge? How often do you lap this stone?

Very interesting one.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
I tried to count the laps and it was about 200 laps. How often would you do this procedure to refresh the edge? How often do you lap this stone?

Very interesting one.
It is not a lap count thing as every natural whetstone is different. With my Cnat, I "refresh" the edge after every shave. That is probably not needed by I just like a fresh edge with every shave.

I refresh on the Cnat with 30 laps on the burnished side with water only and then another 30 laps with water and a drop of detergent. The refresh includes short X strokes for comfort.

My stone appears to be very hard. I have not yet needed to lap it flat again after the initial lapping.
 
Do you know how true hard ark compares to Imperia La Roccia? I'm thinking about ilr because of the price.
I have both the ILR and a translucent ark. I much prefer the ark. It produces keener, smoother edges. But your prefinish work needs to be absolutely on point. I do sometimes use my ILR between 8k and the ark but I have to be careful because spending too much time on ot will take the edge backwards. But, used carefully, 20 laps max with very light pressure, it can make a pleasant shaving edge. Not everyone has had great results with them though.

A translucent or a Dan's Black will retain its value better too if you want to sell it. I think a Dan's black is about $100 for a 6x2 and an ILR in the same size is about $80 so they're in the same ballpark in terms of price. With an ark you know exactly what you're getting.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
Another comparison. This time with two identical (except for the scales timber) Titan ACRM-2 T.H.60 SRs from a weekend set. Yesterday was the pasted balsa strop finished and maintained SR.

IMG_20220711_085533.jpg
African Ebony
This morning was the Adaee #12000 Cnat finished and maintained SR.

IMG_20220712_083942.jpg
Madagascan Mahogany
Both shaves were with the same pre-lather prep and tallow Tabac face lathered with a Proraso Pro boar brush.

The result was that I could notice no difference between the two in either closeness, comfort or ease of shaving. That includes the coups de maître. I think that I may have perfected the use of my Adaee #12000 Cnat.

Just remember that probably not all of these Adaee #12000 Cnats are the same. I may have just been lucky in the one that I received and for about US$40 including shipping, I am a happy honer.
 

Steve56

Ask me about shaving naked!
It sounds like that you got a good stone - Congrats! I’ve always wanted to try a good one.

There is something about a natural finish vs synth, you can feel it. The best synth is likely the Suehiro Gokumyo 20k, which is about $200. Pricey, but it’s a lifetime stone. It’s fast, it’s hard, and it makes a very nice edge, probably the best of the synths. It’s not the same as a good natural finish, but it’s in the ballpark. It’s the stone that you want if you want the PHIG edge in 20 strokes.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
It sounds like that you got a good stone - Congrats! I’ve always wanted to try a good one.

There is something about a natural finish vs synth, you can feel it. The best synth is likely the Suehiro Gokumyo 20k, which is about $200. Pricey, but it’s a lifetime stone. It’s fast, it’s hard, and it makes a very nice edge, probably the best of the synths. It’s not the same as a good natural finish, but it’s in the ballpark. It’s the stone that you want if you want the PHIG edge in 20 strokes.
Fortunately I have the time for the extra laps I put in on the Cnat. I agree with you that honing and maintaining on a natural whetstone is a different and wonderful feeling compared to synthetics, films and, yes, even pasted balsa.

I am still not (yet) tempted to go down the natural whetstone rabbit hole. My budget does not yet allow it.
 
It sounds like that you got a good stone - Congrats! I’ve always wanted to try a good one.

There is something about a natural finish vs synth, you can feel it. The best synth is likely the Suehiro Gokumyo 20k, which is about $200. Pricey, but it’s a lifetime stone. It’s fast, it’s hard, and it makes a very nice edge, probably the best of the synths. It’s not the same as a good natural finish, but it’s in the ballpark. It’s the stone that you want if you want the PHIG edge in 20 strokes.
I agree that there's something different about the finish natural finishing stones leave. I've found that it changes the range of uses I get out of all my other blades tools. The different finishes, teeth or no teeth, aggressive edge or buttery smooth.... I had never considered it before but each knife, chisel, plane iron, kitchen knife, axe, ect... all have stones that are better suited for different purposes, even on the same tool. Even the same types of tools may benefit from different stones due to steel composition. My Les lat was cutting me plane irons faster than a cheap 220# diamond plate, way faster. I was surprised by the speed. It was faster than my old hard India stone too. I think the coticule edge cut the very old hardwood my house is made of much better than the toothy edge from a washita or even a hard ark. I wouldn't have guessed, the wood is like iron. I've done lots of sharpening and an sitting on a pile of rocks but I often have revelations and then fell like in only scratching the surface of it all. I suppose that's the fun...a ride that doesn't end.
 
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