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My first Gold Dollar 66 honing - critic please !

After a gap of nearly a year or so, after getting my Naniwa 400 and 1000 bevel setter stones this week, I decided to venture in to honing a gold dollar 66 straight razor. I have a few which I had got a few years ago, however not much took off back then in motivating me to straight razor shave.

  • The plane of the edge and the spine was in a slight X offset
  • The shoulder was a bulbous convex fat lip, making it necessary to deal with before I could lay the razor flat on the hone
  • No tape was used through the session
  • Progression : Naniwa Chosera 400, 1000, Norton 4k/8k, Naniwa 12k, Cotton strop, leather strop, DMT coarse diamond plate

First and foremost I spent a lot of time sudying the geometry of the razor and realised that I had to first get the plane of the spine and the edge close so that I could attempt to set a bevel

With a sharpie, I realised that the shoulder was too thick and coming in the way of the hone as the heel of the razor on the "gold dollar" printed side sat inside a crater sorrounded by steel edges consisting of the spine, a bulbous shoulder and some part of the heel edge edge

I did most of the work with the Naniwa 400 and 1000 to try and make the spine and edge aligned using varying pressure points while honing. I had to hone the shoulder to allow the spine and the heel to come flat on the hone. Also required for an area to form in the heel area. One of yje photos of the shoulder down the spine shows how thick the shoulder is and it had to be grinded in to a triangle to make an apex on the heel. Yet its not as good.

End result, I could make a decent bevel except at the tip of the heel which seemed impossible to get due to the thick shoulder and that tip aligned around it.

I had a shave with the final edge and I got a surprisingly good shave. I no longer have a goatee so it was a first time full face shave, especially the thick stubble on the "goatee" part.

I did not do more than 2 passes and some few touch ups to get a decent shave, except the mustache area where I couldn't figure out the moves (and the courage / confidence to actually do it)

Attaching some pictures and I am requesting views especially any criticism you may have of what could have been done better. Images are from my humble samsung galaxy phone without a macro lens, hence please excuse the lack of sharpness.

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Anyone who turns a stock Gold Dollar 66 into an actual shaving instrument deserves a medal, not critique.

But you asked for critique, so OK.

Your second-from-last picture is mildly alarming. What is that waving along the edge? Do the bevels truly meet all the way along? Is it just an optical illusion?

Why so much honing on the stabilizer? I guess there must have been a warp. In your position, I would have been tempted to grind the stabilizer out of the way and just hone the edge. I admit that produces ugly results.
 
Anyone who turns a stock Gold Dollar 66 into an actual shaving instrument deserves a medal, not critique.

But you asked for critique, so OK.

Your second-from-last picture is mildly alarming. What is that waving along the edge? Do the bevels truly meet all the way along? Is it just an optical illusion?

Why so much honing on the stabilizer? I guess there must have been a warp. In your position, I would have been tempted to grind the stabilizer out of the way and just hone the edge. I admit that produces ugly results.

The second from last was the most painful part to figure out and correct reasonably. Wet thumb nail test didn't give much grabbing in that area for a long time, which made me grind in to the stabilizer with the dmt anf then the 400 with pressure. The apex in that portion meets but barely, not sure if it can be improved on. I really didn't know what else to do other than what I did with sheer brut force.

In fact this photo illustrates and answers your question it is not clean at the tip of the heel.

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You have not corrected the stabilizer yet. The pic's show that you are honing up on the stabilizer this is a major problem.
Use the (search forum) to ask "how to correct the razors stabilizer" you will get a wealth of knowledge on the proper corrections for these kinds of problems. This would be my first move if I were you.
 
“The apex in that portion meets but barely, not sure if it can be improved on. I really didn't know what else to do other than what I did with sheer brut force.”


Yes, it can easily.

You are honing on the stabilizer. The stabilizer is keeping the heel and likely the heel half of the edge off the stone.

It is a 5 minute fix.

You might also want to measure the thickness of the spine at the heel, middle and toe, then even the thickness if they are not the same.

Most Gold Dollars can afford to loose some spine thickness.

Take a look at this thread for how to reprofile a heel. (Anybody know anything about this razor?) Post 5.
 
“The apex in that portion meets but barely, not sure if it can be improved on. I really didn't know what else to do other than what I did with sheer brut force.”


Yes, it can easily.

You are honing on the stabilizer. The stabilizer is keeping the heel and likely the heel half of the edge off the stone.

It is a 5 minute fix.

You might also want to measure the thickness of the spine at the heel, middle and toe, then even the thickness if they are not the same.

Most Gold Dollars can afford to loose some spine thickness.

Take a look at this thread for how to reprofile a heel. (Anybody know anything about this razor?) Post 5.

I read that post, and many others were you advise to reprofile the heel. I was wondering how to go about doing that.

Can you please elaborate what stones and strokes should I use to do that ?

The steel is very thin at the corner and can easily be removed and reshaped with a diamond plate or the side of a low grit stone. Just mark the arc with a sharpie, then follow the line.

This is from post # 6 from that thread.

question : After making that circle do I hold the razor vertical, heel down on the dmt and grind away along that line?
 
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Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
GASP! HONE WEAR!!!! YOU HAVE RUINED IT AND DEMOLISHED YOUR RESALE VALUE!

JK LOL! Don't worry about making a GD66 into an ugly razor. That has already been done for you. Go nuts. Thinner spine = better, more aggressive edge due to more acute bevel angle. Just don't take it down much below 16.0 degrees or you could have chipping, fin edge, or toppling issues. At 16.5 to 17.5 degrees it can give a pretty sporty shave.

One way to reprofile the heel, often suggested on another forum, is to take a quarter and lay it on the razor as a template. Draw an arc with a sharpie using the quarter as your template. Grind away the offending part, take the line. Only caution is if you use power tools, touch the thin part of the blade near the edge for no more than a couple of seconds or you will push the temper. When you see the BSOD, or Blue Stain of Death, your fancy Gold Dollar razor is toast. Get another one out of the box and try again.

So, that way will correct the heel with a convex curve. You can also go in with a dremel sanding drum and make a concave curve, instead, like a thumb notch. Whatever blows your skirt up. What you are really trying to do is eliminate the heel area of the edge where it is very thick or too near the stabilizer to hone easily. You will be removing about 1/4" of edge. No big loss. Once you are finished, you will not have to get the shoulder right there at the edge of the hone, and you will not accidentally run the shoulder up onto the hone.

There are a couple of vids on my youtube channel, I think. But try just using a quarter and a sharpie to mark your line, and grind back to the line, take the line, and reset your bevel. Power tools not needed. You can use a cheapie diamond plate for the rough work, sort of dragging the heel at a high angle along the plate. You can also use say a Norton 220 followed by a 1k, just use the side of the stone and not the usual honing surface, so you don't dig it up. 400 and 600 grit sandpaper will work. Don't go coarser with this operation on sandpaper, though. Chip city. I usually use a belt sander clamped upside down in my bench vise. The B&D Dragster style, with the small nose roller, works brilliantly for this. Remember, a couple of seconds only, then cool. You can dunk in ice water, or just do a dozen in rotation and when you get back around to the first, all heat is gone.

They are much better than they used to be, but back in the day I would usually fix the heel, then set a preliminary bevel, then "tape" the edge with a piece of steel from a food can lid bent over on itself, and essentially set a bevel on the spine, with the edge thus protected. This would thin the spine while maintaining parallelism. Then knock off the lower edge of the new spine wear surface to restore it to a semblance of roundness and enable future honing to reduce the thickness normally along with the edge. Then, remove the edge guard, (you can use tape but you have to change it a LOT!) and set the edge bevel again, using bright light, Belomo 10x loupe, and sharpie. So you end up with a spine as thin as you care to make it, and the spine and edge perfectly in line with each other, for easy honing. Taken to extreme,

Here is a more or less fully modded GD66. You don't have to go to such extremes, of course.
7cfe854a-f837-4ce7-b6ae-f91099f7813b-jpeg.920390


This razor has the concave style heel correction, but I did slightly round the resulting heel point. I made the nose a little more racy, too. I did quite a few in this style back in the day. Scales were 3D printed from PLA filament. Shank is thinned a bit so that there can never BE a shoulder to ride up onto the hone.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
I read that post, and many others were you advise to reprofile the heel. I was wondering how to go about doing that.

Can you please elaborate what stones and strokes should I use to do that ?

The steel is very thin at the corner and can easily be removed and reshaped with a diamond plate or the side of a low grit stone. Just mark the arc with a sharpie, then follow the line.

This is from post # 6 from that thread.

question : After making that circle do I hold the razor vertical, heel down on the dmt and grind away along that line?
Try dragging it at a 45 degree angle. That doesn't gouge up your stone so much. (which is why you use the edge of the stone, or a cheap diamond plate.)

Here is a vid, doing the convex style of heel correction, with the quarter and sharpie. Razor is a GD P-81 though, not a 66. I am using a belt sander but you don't have to and in fact I recommend you not use power tools the first few times you do this.

 
Try dragging it at a 45 degree angle. That doesn't gouge up your stone so much. (which is why you use the edge of the stone, or a cheap diamond plate.)

Here is a vid, doing the convex style of heel correction, with the quarter and sharpie. Razor is a GD P-81 though, not a 66. I am using a belt sander but you don't have to and in fact I recommend you not use power tools the first few times you do this.

I'm thinking of picking up a Dremel tool to do these kinds of corrections and modifications. Would you recommend against that?
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
I'm thinking of picking up a Dremel tool to do these kinds of corrections and modifications. Would you recommend against that?
A dremel is wonderful. A dremel is also horrible. You will ruin a few razors, almost certainly, with it. When you are ruining a GD66 and you have 99 more because you bought 100 from the factory for $2 each, it's all fun and games. When you are putting the final touches on your only GD, getting it ready for the annual competition with deadline only three days out, it is heartbreaking. When you are just gently touching up a slightly abused vintage Filly, it is excruciating anguish, rending of garments and gnashing of teeth. When you have a half dozen GD208 razors and you hope to get one super killer blade out of the lot, worthy of new scales and a good polish, that is being realistic. When you have already done 20 or 30 and you think you got the hang of it, famous last words. When you have a few under your belt and you are totally focused and concentrating because you know how you can send shattered splinters of steel all over the room and into any unshielded eyeball, but you are not one to waste time when the careful use of powertools has been proven to be a force multiplier and time saver for you, then maybe that is pretty smart and logical.

I honestly think no power tools is a good policy for your first few modifications. However, I have no dog in that fight. Not my eyeballs or razors at risk, after all. Anyway, I will never know unless you post about your catastrophe.

Just sayin, the big orange heavy duty knockoff sold by Harbor Freight under the Chicago brand is half the cost and lasts twice as long, and has the same size chuck so you can use the same bits and bobs. Don't waste your money on the little stones or steel burrs or diamond bits. There are two things you will use a lot of, and that is the sanding drum attachment and the little sanding drums for it, the felt polishing wheels, and less used, the cutting disks. Those disks shatter a LOT. The other two tools can grab an edge and fling a razor over the goalpost, or shatter it into shrapnel, or overheat the thin steel near the edge for a BSOD. Bad stuff happens fast, at 30,000 RPM.

If you go for it, get two things for sure. Goggles, AND a full face mask. You WILL be glad you did, maybe later but probably sooner.

Doing a heel without power tools works every bit as well as using them successfully. Just takes a little longer. Did the doctor only give you 6 more hours to live or something? Take your time. Think about what you are doing. Stop and carefully regard your progress and how much is still to do. Save your money. That's my considered suggestion.
 
GASP! HONE WEAR!!!! YOU HAVE RUINED IT AND DEMOLISHED YOUR RESALE VALUE!

JK LOL! Don't worry about making a GD66 into an ugly razor. That has already been done for you. Go nuts. Thinner spine = better, more aggressive edge due to more acute bevel angle. Just don't take it down much below 16.0 degrees or you could have chipping, fin edge, or toppling issues. At 16.5 to 17.5 degrees it can give a pretty sporty shave.

One way to reprofile the heel, often suggested on another forum, is to take a quarter and lay it on the razor as a template. Draw an arc with a sharpie using the quarter as your template. Grind away the offending part, take the line. Only caution is if you use power tools, touch the thin part of the blade near the edge for no more than a couple of seconds or you will push the temper. When you see the BSOD, or Blue Stain of Death, your fancy Gold Dollar razor is toast. Get another one out of the box and try again.

So, that way will correct the heel with a convex curve. You can also go in with a dremel sanding drum and make a concave curve, instead, like a thumb notch. Whatever blows your skirt up. What you are really trying to do is eliminate the heel area of the edge where it is very thick or too near the stabilizer to hone easily. You will be removing about 1/4" of edge. No big loss. Once you are finished, you will not have to get the shoulder right there at the edge of the hone, and you will not accidentally run the shoulder up onto the hone.

There are a couple of vids on my youtube channel, I think. But try just using a quarter and a sharpie to mark your line, and grind back to the line, take the line, and reset your bevel. Power tools not needed. You can use a cheapie diamond plate for the rough work, sort of dragging the heel at a high angle along the plate. You can also use say a Norton 220 followed by a 1k, just use the side of the stone and not the usual honing surface, so you don't dig it up. 400 and 600 grit sandpaper will work. Don't go coarser with this operation on sandpaper, though. Chip city. I usually use a belt sander clamped upside down in my bench vise. The B&D Dragster style, with the small nose roller, works brilliantly for this. Remember, a couple of seconds only, then cool. You can dunk in ice water, or just do a dozen in rotation and when you get back around to the first, all heat is gone.

They are much better than they used to be, but back in the day I would usually fix the heel, then set a preliminary bevel, then "tape" the edge with a piece of steel from a food can lid bent over on itself, and essentially set a bevel on the spine, with the edge thus protected. This would thin the spine while maintaining parallelism. Then knock off the lower edge of the new spine wear surface to restore it to a semblance of roundness and enable future honing to reduce the thickness normally along with the edge. Then, remove the edge guard, (you can use tape but you have to change it a LOT!) and set the edge bevel again, using bright light, Belomo 10x loupe, and sharpie. So you end up with a spine as thin as you care to make it, and the spine and edge perfectly in line with each other, for easy honing. Taken to extreme,

Here is a more or less fully modded GD66. You don't have to go to such extremes, of course.
7cfe854a-f837-4ce7-b6ae-f91099f7813b-jpeg.920390


This razor has the concave style heel correction, but I did slightly round the resulting heel point. I made the nose a little more racy, too. I did quite a few in this style back in the day. Scales were 3D printed from PLA filament. Shank is thinned a bit so that there can never BE a shoulder to ride up onto the hone.

Mind blown on the suggestions.

A question about spine thinning. Looking at your moded gd66, the spine is thinned and tapers from the tang gradually in to the spine?
 
A dremel is wonderful. A dremel is also horrible. You will ruin a few razors, almost certainly, with it. When you are ruining a GD66 and you have 99 more because you bought 100 from the factory for $2 each, it's all fun and games. When you are putting the final touches on your only GD, getting it ready for the annual competition with deadline only three days out, it is heartbreaking. When you are just gently touching up a slightly abused vintage Filly, it is excruciating anguish, rending of garments and gnashing of teeth. When you have a half dozen GD208 razors and you hope to get one super killer blade out of the lot, worthy of new scales and a good polish, that is being realistic. When you have already done 20 or 30 and you think you got the hang of it, famous last words. When you have a few under your belt and you are totally focused and concentrating because you know how you can send shattered splinters of steel all over the room and into any unshielded eyeball, but you are not one to waste time when the careful use of powertools has been proven to be a force multiplier and time saver for you, then maybe that is pretty smart and logical.

I honestly think no power tools is a good policy for your first few modifications. However, I have no dog in that fight. Not my eyeballs or razors at risk, after all. Anyway, I will never know unless you post about your catastrophe.

Just sayin, the big orange heavy duty knockoff sold by Harbor Freight under the Chicago brand is half the cost and lasts twice as long, and has the same size chuck so you can use the same bits and bobs. Don't waste your money on the little stones or steel burrs or diamond bits. There are two things you will use a lot of, and that is the sanding drum attachment and the little sanding drums for it, the felt polishing wheels, and less used, the cutting disks. Those disks shatter a LOT. The other two tools can grab an edge and fling a razor over the goalpost, or shatter it into shrapnel, or overheat the thin steel near the edge for a BSOD. Bad stuff happens fast, at 30,000 RPM.

If you go for it, get two things for sure. Goggles, AND a full face mask. You WILL be glad you did, maybe later but probably sooner.

Doing a heel without power tools works every bit as well as using them successfully. Just takes a little longer. Did the doctor only give you 6 more hours to live or something? Take your time. Think about what you are doing. Stop and carefully regard your progress and how much is still to do. Save your money. That's my considered suggestion.
Thank you so much for the thorough reply. I'm definitely not in a rush and can do without power tools.
 
A dremel is wonderful. A dremel is also horrible. You will ruin a few razors, almost certainly, with it.
I haven't ruined any, so far. But I admit I've made some serious ugliness.

I agree that a Dremel is optional for heel reduction. It seems less optional when you're trying to get more hollow into a very worn kamisori.
 
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