The myth of the longer lasting BBS

[luvmysuper]

Maybe they went to the ladies beauty shop and got their face waxed.

Unless they lived in Brazil. And then, well ..... you know

There is evidence that the ancient Egyptians used depilitories of various compounds as well as waxing to remove hair.
There's more evidence that the tools they used were for scraping off treated hair than there is for them using the tools in a razor like fashion.

 

[Butch Waxx]

There is evidence that the ancient Egyptians used depilitories of various compounds as well as waxing to remove hair.
There's more evidence that the tools they used were for scraping off treated hair than there is for them using the tools in a razor like fashion.

That makes sense….I often wondered how these fellows maintained that smooth look!

 

[Andris83]

I think I'm saying that BBS duration is based on how much hair is removed, and your individual growth rate, and that it is possible to duplicate that time period with any razor or blade.
Whether or not additional effort is required is a different issue.
For some, additional effort may be required. For me personally, no additional effort is required and I get pretty consistent results regardless of razor or blade.

I'm not going to comment much on the topic, I found some truth to what you and also what others are saying. However, saying that the blades do not matter is nonsense. A less sharp blade leaves visible stubble on my face even after 3 passes. I can buff to the point that all whiskers are removed, but it is much more comfortable to just use a sharp blade (or one that feels right in a given razor). A sharp blade I can use 3-4 times. A medium sharp blade may be good on the 1st use, ok on the 2nd, then I have to toss it. I can't shave with a less than medium sharp blade (think derby, voshkod, etc), period. The same applies to razors, I guess I can get the same result, as you said, with a less efficient razor with extra passes and more buffing, but that is beyond the point as it is way more comfortable to use a more efficient razor that does the job with 2(.5) passes, no buffing and no pressure applied.

P.s.: in the end I did comment, but this is my $0.02
P.s.2: even if we accept that we _could_ achieve the same result with any razor and any blade, then why bother with a DE/SE? Why not just grab the first cart / disposable from the shelves and hack away?

 

[tm3]

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Nice analysis.

I didn't read all the replies, but my opinion has always been that the perception of "longer lasting" is in fact caused by one shave being more uniform than the other -- i.e., some whiskers did not get shaved quite as close so they are felt sooner as they grow back.

 

[luvmysuper]

I'm not going to comment much on the topic, I found some truth to what you and also what others are saying. However, saying that the blades do not matter is nonsense. A less sharp blade leaves visible stubble on my face even after 3 passes. I can buff to the point that all whiskers are removed, but it is much more comfortable to just use a sharp blade (or one that feels right in a given razor). A sharp blade I can use 3-4 times. A medium sharp blade may be good on the 1st use, ok on the 2nd, then I have to toss it. I can't shave with a less than medium sharp blade (think derby, voshkod, etc), period. The same applies to razors, I guess I can get the same result, as you said, with a less efficient razor with extra passes and more buffing, but that is beyond the point as it is way more comfortable to use a more efficient razor that does the job with 2(.5) passes, no buffing and no pressure applied.

P.s.: in the end I did comment, but this is my $0.02
P.s.2: even if we accept that we _could_ achieve the same result with any razor and any blade, then why bother with a DE/SE? Why not just grab the first cart / disposable from the shelves and hack away?

Ok

 

[Esox]

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

I have a story too.

Post war Tech - 6 hour BBS.
Gillette New SC - 10 hour bbs.
Fatip Grande/R41 - 12 hour BBS.
GEM MMOC - 14 hour BBS.

Tech


New SC


Grande/R41


MMOC


The differences between those razors, in this discussion, is blade exposure. Blade exposure is directly related to depth of cut, assuming ones skin is supple and forgiving enough to withstand the increase in blade exposure.

Its difficult to get a picture showing the blade exposure of the MMOC, or any GEM, because of the blade tabs but few would disagree that it has generous blade exposure.

Taking advantage of increased blade exposure is another story. Technique is key but, for me at least, soap choice is just as critical. If the soap I'm using fails to make my skin supple enough, supple skin is very forgiving, I may have razor burn or a shallower depth of cut leading to a shorter BBS finish.

If, on the other hand, you are capable of getting the absolute most out of every aspect of your shave, the differences are real and tangible which brings me to your next part.

How does one judge a BBS shave? Personally, I press the heel of my palm into my chin, jawline and cheeks with quite a lot of pressure and feel ATG. If I feel nothing, I call it a BBS finish. I've also used a cotton ball but find the increased pressure gives a better feel.

For example; I can shave with a Mach 3 and get no snagging from a cotton ball but if I feel ATG with my hand with considerable pressure, I can quite easily feel stubble.

We are not machines, so this is not 100% repeatable.

No, it's not precisely repeatable on every shave but it is well enough that the differences between those razors, in my hand and on my face, each have different limitations.

The duration of BBS time for the razors I mentioned above are repeatable for me. I may be able to squeak a 7 hour BBS out of a Tech or I may have an 8 hour BBS with the SC. My Grande however is very consistent at 12 hours with a fresh Feather blade as was my R41, for the little I used it. The MMOC is the exception. With a fresh PTFE blade on shaves 1-3, the BBS finish has been over 18 hours. A fresh blade cuts easier and, as the blade wears, the duration of the BBS lessens. Typically, my MMOC gives me a BBS of 14 hours through the life of the blade during 10 shaves.

 

[luvmysuper]

I have a story too.

Post war Tech - 6 hour BBS.
Gillette New SC - 10 hour bbs.
Fatip Grande/R41 - 12 hour BBS.
GEM MMOC - 14 hour BBS.

Tech
View attachment 1462670

New SC
View attachment 1462671

Grande/R41
View attachment 1462672

MMOC
View attachment 1462673

The differences between those razors, in this discussion, is blade exposure. Blade exposure is directly related to depth of cut, assuming ones skin is supple and forgiving enough to withstand the increase in blade exposure.

Its difficult to get a picture showing the blade exposure of the MMOC, or any GEM, because of the blade tabs but few would disagree that it has generous blade exposure.

Taking advantage of increased blade exposure is another story. Technique is key but, for me at least, soap choice is just as critical. If the soap I'm using fails to make my skin supple enough, supple skin is very forgiving, I may have razor burn or a shallower depth of cut leading to a shorter BBS finish.

If, on the other hand, you are capable of getting the absolute most out of every aspect of your shave, the differences are real and tangible which brings me to your next part.

How does one judge a BBS shave? Personally, I press the heel of my palm into my chin, jawline and cheeks with quite a lot of pressure and feel ATG. If I feel nothing, I call it a BBS finish. I've also used a cotton ball but find the increased pressure gives a better feel.

For example; I can shave with a Mach 3 and get no snagging from a cotton ball but if I feel ATG with my hand with considerable pressure, I can quite easily feel stubble.



No, it's not precisely repeatable on every shave but it is well enough that the differences between those razors, in my hand and on my face, each have different limitations.

The duration of BBS time for the razors I mentioned above are repeatable for me. I may be able to squeak out a 7 hour BBS out of a Tech or I may have an 8 hour BBS with the SC. My Grande however is very consistent at 12 hours with a fresh Feather blade as was my R41, for the little I used it. The MMOC is the exception. With a fresh PTFE blade on shaves 1-3, the BBS finish has been over 18 hours. A fresh blade cuts easier and, as the blade wears, the duration of the BBS lessens. Typically, my MMOC gives me a BBS of 14 hours through the life of the blade during 10 shaves.

Ok

 

[Esox]

Ok

 

[Phoenixkh]

I don't know much because I haven't put in the time most of you have. I do know I was shocked the very first time I used my Claymore Evolution and got a closer shave than my Fusion Power razor. And I'm not exaggerating..... my face was the smoothest it's been since I started growing facial hair. My wife even commented...

That's why I haven't experimented with other razors.... just various blades and I did find quite a bit of variance there. I settled on two AC blades out of 6.... those two gave me closer shaves and lasted longer as well.

Now, the rest of the shaving experience is still fascinating me.... but that's for other threads.

 

[luvmysuper]

View attachment 1462694

No, I think folks are free to believe whatever they choose to believe, and my opinion is no more important than anyone else.
I just made the decision to recognize that folks have different ideas on the subject, and instead of trying to reiterate my own opinion, I can show that I recognize and accept that others may not agree.

 

[Lord NSIC]

It occurred to me reading this that I was unsure if it was ignorance or apathy for me when it came to the subject of a "BBS shave." I am happy to report, that after much thought, I have come to the conclusion that I don't know, and I don't care.

 

[Medivh]

The only thing that we can all agree on is that we all enjoy shaving for one reason or another and pretty much any serious shaving discussion ends with a lot of different points of views and opinions, hence why YMMV exists.

 

[Filudo]

There is much more to the feeling of stubble.
There is wide variability amongst humans in what they can actually fell (tactile stimulation and transmission); so NOT everyone is the same.
Now the beard.......not sure why it sometimes grows more and some less......maybe what we eat and how we sleep.......

Finally, I bet some razors actually scrape, peel the top layer of the skin......(when some of us have a burning sensation, which could be cause by a multitude of inputs).

All I will say, enjoy your shaves, people are different and what works for one might not work for another......it's about your shaves and your results (experiment) and find out your best mix.

And one thing I have never read: as I have aged, I have 50/50 dark and white hair.....and those dark ones distributed around look bad!!! I did not mind having an all dark stubble (I did that for good 20yrs, the Miami vice look), but now it looks like a sick possum. Got to shave it all frequently

 

[Swingboy8]

@Esox : thanks for the accurate pictures of different angles ! I think that the NEW SC regular neutral angle must be technically shallower compared to the Tech one...

This is probably the reason why my 1st shave with the NEW RFB wasn't as close of what i get with Tech #24. (usually 12h & sometimes even 14h)

I've just checked both razors and, indeed, i think the RFB applies more torsion to the blade than the post-war Tech / or maybe this is the blade gap which is smaller on the RFB.
So i think that the RFB regular neutral angle must be slightly steeper than the Tech one, if i'm not mistaken.

I will correct that for this morning shave !

 

[Esox]

All I will say, enjoy your shaves, people are different and what works for one might not work for another......it's about your shaves and your results (experiment) and find out your best mix.

That is some of the best advice I've ever read. It takes time and experimentation to find the best things for each of us and very few times, will that combination work for anyone else. We all have different skin and different hair composition. I personally used a highly methodical approach. Identifying weaknesses in my shaves, understanding them and doing my best to eliminate them. That takes time, perseverance and commitment.

@Esox : thanks for the accurate pictures of different angles ! I think that the NEW SC regular neutral angle must be technically shallower compared to the Tech one...

This is probably the reason why my 1st shave with the NEW RFB wasn't as close of what i get with Tech #24. (usually 12h & sometimes even 14h)

I've just checked both razors and, indeed, i think the RFB applies more torsion to the blade than the post-war Tech / or maybe this is the blade gap which is smaller on the RFB.
So i think that the RFB regular neutral angle must be slightly steeper than the Tech one, if i'm not mistaken.

I will correct that for this morning shave !

You're welcome.

When it came to blade angle, as part of a razors geometry, I wasnt very concerned with it because the razor can be used at any angle the blade will engage at. It just takes a minor adjustment in grip position and pressure applied. The R41 and Fatip are perfect examples of that. The R41 positions the blade more steeply than the Fatip, the green line, as well as the profile of the head lends a steeper angle.

Some pressure is always applied. For me, angle dictates that pressure. Shaving very shallow I use more pressure than when shaving steep because, when I shave shallow, I push the cap into my skin. I can come close to meeting the same edge to skin angle with the R41 as I can the Grande, its all in how I hold it and the pressure I apply.

The red line below denoting the level of my skin to approximate the angle edge to skin I generally prefer.



The location of all pressure applied however is never on the edge but instead, on the cap. The area between the green lines below.

Applying pressure on the cap forces the skin to rise to meet the edge and is very easy to control once you get the hang of it. When shaving ATG it also helps the hairs stand up. As the cap slides over the skin, the pressure creates a sort of wave of skin ahead of the blades edge. The curve of the skin helps make the whiskers stand up for a closer cut.

Once it all came together and I found my best blades for a single pass ATG shave, using a Gillette Yellow on 48 hours growth in my Grande, with any of my top soaps, the only thing I feel is the cap sliding over the lather. It took me two full years, shaving every other day, to learn to shave like that and find my best blades and soaps.

My main point being, if the absolute best shave is what you desire, it is possible to have it. It just takes time and commitment to find it.

 

[thombrogan]

now it looks like a sick possum. Got to shave it all frequently

Alternatively…

 

[sanookd]

I don't know much because I haven't put in the time most of you have. I do know I was shocked the very first time I used my Claymore Evolution and got a closer shave than my Fusion Power razor. And I'm not exaggerating..... my face was the smoothest it's been since I started growing facial hair. My wife even commented...

That's why I haven't experimented with other razors.... just various blades and I did find quite a bit of variance there. I settled on two AC blades out of 6.... those two gave me closer shaves and lasted longer as well.

Now, the rest of the shaving experience is still fascinating me.... but that's for other threads.

Have you tried a straight yet?

 

[Phoenixkh]

Have you tried a straight yet?

No.... I have a couple AC barber razors but I haven't had the guts to try them yet. They do call me from time to time.

 

[sanookd]

No.... I have a couple AC barber razors but I haven't had the guts to try them yet. They do call me from time to time.

Please answer that call and satisfy your curiosity. It doesn’t take guts, just patience, perseverance and desire.

 

[LRod]

I don't shave ATG so I don't seek a BBS shave ever. I shave daily and I'm happy with a DFS where I see no traces of whiskers or shadow. I'm good with feeling the smoothness when I run my hand on my face North to South. I could care less if I can feel the slight roughness when I run it the other way. Since I shave everyday, the BBS shave for me would mean definite irritation. But I respect those that can handle it and those that must have that feel (or no feel).
So how about a different analysis:
A longer lasting DFS?
I see that as a valid possibility for some when using different razors, blades, number of passes etc..
I'd have to agree with @luvmysuper that the longer lasting BBS is probably a myth.
BBS is BBS!
When you've reached BBS, you've reached the max so I don't see a possibility of shaving any lower than that.
Now a DFS, that's a different story!