Too Fast

[SparkyLB]

I've made an executive decision. I've had so many questions and everyone's been so helpful. I've mentioned that I'm impulsive and a weakness of mine is this inability to wait.

First romance was being enamored by the lure of balsa strops. I made a set. I noticed straight away that the very edge wasn't making contact with the balsa. I knew this first by feel, then by accident--as a newcomer I lifted the spine accidentally and only then did I hear the "music" you all speak of with extra full ground hollows.

It occurred to me this was happening because Jarrod of The Superior Shave uses convex stones and this yields a hollow grind on the blade. Since the very edge looks like a gunsmith's screwdriver tip, the edge doesn't contact the wood.

I also felt like I wasn't getting the best shave. I had to use way too much pressure, and I won't recount everything you were all kind enough to tell me. Two things come to mind, and you know who you are. One of you told me, "Either way you're gonna need leather." Someone else said, "there are two kinds of pressure, the pressure against your face, and the pressure it takes to cut hair." Bottom line was you gave me pointers and this little voice in my mind kept saying, "Nope, ain't that." "Can't be that either."

You told me:
1. Stretch your skin
2. Prepare your beard
3. Work on your technique
4. YOU MUST HAVE LEATHER!!, and other gems I decided not to hear.

Don't get me wrong, I knew your were right, but I wanted solutions now! It's amazing what the impulsive mind does when you just don't want to listen!!

I made myself a honing setup with acrylic and purchased lapping films. I'm all ready to go. I decided I would remove the hollow-ground edge Jarrod gave me and hone my own brand-new razor. I consider myself reasonably intelligent, but do you see the irony in this guy who NEVER TOUCHED A STRAIGHT EDGE BEFORE going to remove an edge made by a trained man, and hone my own? What a great joke that is.

Then it hit me tonight. Just a few minutes ago. I have a brand-new Dovo that was not cheap. Its edge was crafted by a man who was trained in Solingen. Cerebral behemoth I am, I am going to take off this coticule-formed edge, re-hone a brand new blade so my balsa strops will work--I would go on, but you surely see the insanity that I didn't catch in my haste.

Today I had three days growth and I prepped my beard and stretched my skin. Really stretched it. "All the difference in the world" is a little strong, but I certainly felt the difference. I think it kind-of opened my eyes. I'm going to work on 1-4 above and see how things evolve before I change anything.

I am going too fast. I am going to slow down. I am NOT going to touch this blade until my strop from Tony Miller arrives and then we'll see how things go. I won't touch this metal with a stone, diamond paste or anything but a strop.

I appreciate everyone's input. I'm glad I didn't undo the edge on this wonderful straight razor that I got.

Deep breath. Exhale. Strop. Shave. Practice. Wait, lather, repeat.

Worst case scenario I'll buy a "vintage" razor off eBay for $20 max. and put a new edge on that. (Just for practice.....)

Damn it, man. Gimme enough rope. . . LOL

 

[Herrenberg]

Fun story, and thank you for telling it.

I kind of believe that screwing up, and then getting it right, is a better way to learn than just starting out perfect and staying perfect. You get more principles into your head that way. Or I just tell myself that because I screw up so much before getting it right.

 

[Titleist]

I've made an executive decision. I've had so many questions and everyone's been so helpful. I've mentioned that I'm impulsive and a weakness of mine is this inability to wait.

First romance was being enamored by the lure of balsa strops. I made a set. I noticed straight away that the very edge wasn't making contact with the balsa. I knew this first by feel, then by accident--as a newcomer I lifted the spine accidentally and only then did I hear the "music" you all speak of with extra full ground hollows.

It occurred to me this was happening because Jarrod of The Superior Shave uses convex stones and this yields a hollow grind on the blade. Since the very edge looks like a gunsmith's screwdriver tip, the edge doesn't contact the wood.

I also felt like I wasn't getting the best shave. I had to use way too much pressure, and I won't recount everything you were all kind enough to tell me. Two things come to mind, and you know who you are. One of you told me, "Either way you're gonna need leather." Someone else said, "there are two kinds of pressure, the pressure against your face, and the pressure it takes to cut hair." Bottom line was you gave me pointers and this little voice in my mind kept saying, "Nope, ain't that." "Can't be that either."

You told me:
1. Stretch your skin
2. Prepare your beard
3. Work on your technique
4. YOU MUST HAVE LEATHER!!, and other gems I decided not to hear.

Don't get me wrong, I knew your were right, but I wanted solutions now! It's amazing what the impulsive mind does when you just don't want to listen!!

I made myself a honing setup with acrylic and purchased lapping films. I'm all ready to go. I decided I would remove the hollow-ground edge Jarrod gave me and hone my own brand-new razor. I consider myself reasonably intelligent, but do you see the irony in this guy who NEVER TOUCHED A STRAIGHT EDGE BEFORE going to remove an edge made by a trained man, and hone my own? What a great joke that is.

Then it hit me tonight. Just a few minutes ago. I have a brand-new Dovo that was not cheap. Its edge was crafted by a man who was trained in Solingen. Cerebral behemoth I am, I am going to take off this coticule-formed edge, re-hone a brand new blade so my balsa strops will work--I would go on, but you surely see the insanity that I didn't catch in my haste.

Today I had three days growth and I prepped my beard and stretched my skin. Really stretched it. "All the difference in the world" is a little strong, but I certainly felt the difference. I think it kind-of opened my eyes. I'm going to work on 1-4 above and see how things evolve before I change anything.

I am going too fast. I am going to slow down. I am NOT going to touch this blade until my strop from Tony Miller arrives and then we'll see how things go. I won't touch this metal with a stone, diamond paste or anything but a strop.

I appreciate everyone's input. I'm glad I didn't undo the edge on this wonderful straight razor that I got.

Deep breath. Exhale. Strop. Shave. Practice. Wait, lather, repeat.

Worst case scenario I'll buy a "vintage" razor off eBay for $20 max. and put a new edge on that. (Just for practice.....)

Damn it, man. Gimme enough rope. . . LOL

I personally never believed that you should have been directed to try hone your new razor or ever use a balsa strop setup as a very new shaver. Personally, you needed a leather strop (which you have recognized and are acquiring).

But honestly, a balsa strop isn't really needed right now as you have discovered. You really need to work on your stropping technique (you can actually practice the flip with a butter knife first) you need to work on your lather viscosity and you need to work slowly on one part of your face, namely only your cheeks to start. Do that for a week and call it good and then move on to another part of your face. Save your chin area for last in my opinion. Use a DE razor or a cartridge razor to finish your shaves and feel satisfied that you are on your way.

It's very easy to try too much at one time. Honestly, leave the honing to the experts and save the pasted strop for later. Right now, a professionally honed straight razor if properly stropped should last you for quite some time.

Keep in mind that this is my opinion and mine alone.

Be patient, stay committed and I guarantee you that you will be satisfied with your progress in a month or so if not sooner.

Don't give up, keep it simple and work on one area of your face (cheeks with the grain for now) for now.

Best of luck.

 

[APBinNCA]

I will tell you something that may save you from blood donation: Body positioning is critical in front of the mirror. I have said before that sometimes I am dancing around, the single edge shuffle. You need to find the perfect alignment for the stroke you are doing, but don't just twist your body into a pretzel. Move around, constantly. It helps blood flow and avoids cramps too.

How does this avoid blood donation? Simple; you start stretching your skin, you have got it just right, but you can't quit see perfectly. Maybe you have your head tilted. You start your stroke and wiggle around trying to see and then all of a sudden your twisted body lets loose and you make just the slightest movement while the blade is moving and you see where this leads...

Just stop and re-position before putting steel to face, that is all.

 

[SparkyLB]

Fun story, and thank you for telling it.

I kind of believe that screwing up, and then getting it right, is a better way to learn than just starting out perfect and staying perfect. You get more principles into your head that way. Or I just tell myself that because I screw up so much before getting it right.

My mother in law, god rest her soul used to say two things: "There's bought sense and taught sense," and, "A hard head makes for a soft ***." Not always, but much of the time I subscribe unfortunately to the latter group. The smart man learns from the mistakes of others. That puts me in the other category.

I personally never believed that you should have been directed to try hone your new razor or ever use a balsa strop setup as a very new shaver. Personally, you needed a leather strop (which you have recognized and are acquiring).

But honestly, a balsa strop isn't really needed right now as you have discovered. You really need to work on your stropping technique (you can actually practice the flip with a butter knife first) you need to work on your lather viscosity and you need to work slowly on one part of your face, namely only your cheeks to start. Do that for a week and call it good and then move on to another part of your face. Save your chin area for last in my opinion. Use a DE razor or a cartridge razor to finish your shaves and feel satisfied that you are on your way.

It's very easy to try too much at one time. Honestly, leave the honing to the experts and save the pasted strop for later. Right now, a professionally honed straight razor if properly stropped should last you for quite some time.

Keep in mind that this is my opinion and mine alone.

Be patient, stay committed and I guarantee you that you will be satisfied with your progress in a month or so if not sooner.

Don't give up, keep it simple and work on one area of your face (cheeks with the grain for now) for now.

Best of luck.

Thanks, Titleist. Leather will be here Friday. Horsehide.

I will tell you something that may save you from blood donation: Body positioning is critical in front of the mirror. I have said before that sometimes I am dancing around, the single edge shuffle. You need to find the perfect alignment for the stroke you are doing, but don't just twist your body into a pretzel. Move around, constantly. It helps blood flow and avoids cramps too.

How does this avoid blood donation? Simple; you start stretching your skin, you have got it just right, but you can't quit see perfectly. Maybe you have your head tilted. You start your stroke and wiggle around trying to see and then all of a sudden your twisted body lets loose and you make just the slightest movement while the blade is moving and you see where this leads...

Just stop and re-position before putting steel to face, that is all.

@APBinNCA I read a lot on this forum and I've read this sentiment from you on at least 3 different threads. First thing I noticed was if I held my SR like Geofatboy with the scales up while doing my cheeks; it blocks my view. Even after I read this suggestion of yours, I never considered turning my head! I hold the SR scales down and it works, but there are many other strokes where my vision is either obscured or blocked completely. With some twisting I can likely overcome many of these limitations.

Much appreciation to @rbscebu for the tip regarding the two types of pressure. Again, thanks to all. Your interest and generosity with your knowledge is immensely helpful.

 

[Alum of Potash]

I started to respond to your other thread last night, but things were moving so fast there that the situation was changing from moment to moment.

Like I said a few days ago, don't sweat it about the balsa. What's done is done there, and you probably didn't introduce too much change as the abrasives are mild from what I understand.

Important thing now, as others have said, is to concentrate on stropping with the plain leather. Your choice, a Tony Miller strop with cotton component, seems like a good one. It should serve you well, not needing a replacement for quite some time provided it isn't seriously cut. Horsehide has a light draw from my experience and is easy to use.

As for the cotton element, the advice on the forum is often to avoid using it, as it will just add complications for a newb, and more specifically, to avoid pasting. I agree with this in starting out, but the cotton strop isn't just there for looks. For a long time, I just used the cotton element to remove detritus (lingering soap scum, beard grime, etc.) from the blade's edge after shaving, and for an occasional touch-up given an edge that needed some zip. Just a few laps to do the trick. More recently, in following the advice from a friend in France, I've begun using the cotton (or linen as the case may be) regularly for a few laps (around 5 to 8 with a full-sized hanging strop) after each shave to cut down the lap count on the leather, which is used afterwards. But again, it will be simpler for you to just use the leather side in starting out. In stropping, I now go by two things on the leather, the feel of the blade and/or the sound of the blade. As to feel, a moment where the blade seems to be passing with less resistance, and as to sound, a moment where the blade seems to "whistle" in passing on the leather. Very subtle and learned with experience, this can occur early on, something like 5-8 laps in; and afterwards, I sort of double that for good measure (i.e., maybe for a total of 10-20 laps). Pull the strops relatively taut, but not so taut as to stretch the leather or cotton, or stress the hardware stitching. I prefer to hold both strops at once, together, for underlying support and to prevent the unused piece from swinging back and forth as it dangles; but for me, this is best achieved by removing the D-rings, reinstalling the endcap leather without the D-ring on the cotton strop to minimize fraying at the end.

Some extracts from the Standardized Textbook of Barbering (1950 ed., pg. 24):

Most barbers use a pair of strops, consisting of a canvas and a leather. The relative importance of canvas and leather is still a moot question. The viewpoint is accepted by barbers that the leather strop is indispensible, where the canvas may or may not be necessary, depending on the individual's co-ordination of hone and strop. With some types of hones, however, the canvas is considered necessary.
[. . .]
When the razor is freshly honed, it should be finished on the leather only. Subsequently it is advisable to use the canvas first. then the leather, each time the razor is stropped.

Again, I would recommend you to slow down and concentrate on what you have at this stage, a sharpened razor and a strop. Less is more as to lap counts too in wanting to avoid damaging/rolling the edge from the start. Later, you might want to acquire a medium sized no. 7 or no. 8 coticule (or translucent Arkansas if you already have one) for touch-ups as needed (lately, I have been lapping to 600x and using baby oil to good effect), but that should be all. The rest is heading down the rabbit hole from the start, as voiced by the rabbit here, yours truly.

Good luck. It sounds like you are doing quite well overall.

 

[SparkyLB]

I started to respond to your other thread last night, but things were moving so fast there that the situation was changing from moment to moment.

Like I said a few days ago, don't sweat it about the balsa. What's done is done there, and you probably didn't introduce too much change as the abrasives are mild from what I understand.

Important thing now, as others have said, is to concentrate on stropping with the plain leather. Your choice, a Tony Miller strop with cotton component, seems like a good one. It should serve you well, not needing a replacement for quite some time provided it isn't seriously cut. Horsehide has a light draw from my experience and is easy to use.

As for the cotton element, the advice on the forum is often to avoid using it, as it will just add complications for a newb, and more specifically, to avoid pasting. I agree with this in starting out, but the cotton strop isn't just there for looks. For a long time, I just used the cotton element to remove detritus (lingering soap scum, beard grime, etc.) from the blade's edge after shaving, and for an occasional touch-up given an edge that needed some zip. Just a few laps to do the trick. More recently, in following the advice from a friend in France, I've begun using the cotton (or linen as the case may be) regularly for a few laps (around 5 to 8 with a full-sized hanging strop) after each shave to cut down the lap count on the leather, which is used afterwards. But again, it will be simpler for you to just use the leather side in starting out. In stropping, I now go by two things on the leather, the feel of the blade and/or the sound of the blade. As to feel, a moment where the blade seems to be passing with less resistance, and as to sound, a moment where the blade seems to "whistle" in passing on the leather. Very subtle and learned with experience, this can occur early on, something like 5-8 laps in; and afterwards, I sort of double that for good measure (i.e., maybe for a total of 10-20 laps). Pull the strops relatively taut, but not so taut as to stretch the leather or cotton, or stress the hardware stitching. I prefer to hold both strops at once, together, for underlying support and to prevent the unused piece from swinging back and forth as it dangles; but for me, this is best achieved by removing the D-rings, reinstalling the endcap leather without the D-ring on the cotton strop to minimize fraying at the end.

Some extracts from the Standardized Textbook of Barbering (1950 ed., pg. 24):

Most barbers use a pair of strops, consisting of a canvas and a leather. The relative importance of canvas and leather is still a moot question. The viewpoint is accepted by barbers that the leather strop is indispensible, where the canvas may or may not be necessary, depending on the individual's co-ordination of hone and strop. With some types of hones, however, the canvas is considered necessary.
[. . .]
When the razor is freshly honed, it should be finished on the leather only. Subsequently it is advisable to use the canvas first. then the leather, each time the razor is stropped.

Again, I would recommend you to slow down and concentrate on what you have at this stage, a sharpened razor and a strop. Less is more as to lap counts too in wanting to avoid damaging/rolling the edge from the start. Later, you might want to acquire a medium sized no. 7 or no. 8 coticule (or translucent Arkansas if you already have one) for touch-ups as needed (lately, I have been lapping to 600x and using baby oil to good effect), but that should be all. The rest is heading down the rabbit hole from the start, as voiced by the rabbit here, yours truly.

Good luck. It sounds like you are doing quite well overall.

Good stuff, sir. I had to smile about your comment on the other thread. It must have been tough to decide the opportune moment to get a word in edgewise.

 

[Frank Shaves]

I will second the idea of buying an inexpensive vintage razor on eBay for learning on. Look at sold razors sorted by price from low to high to begin to learn what is out there for $25 and under. You will be surprised by the number of good razors in this price range if you are willing to do so a little sanding and perhaps remove a small chip.

 

[SparkyLB]

W. H. Morley & Sons 11/16" Straight Razor -- Clover Brand Germany I got this old SR. Of course, the photography was stellar eBay quality highlighting mostly the scales, and the blade somewhat out of focus at a greater distance. It is an instrument for practice, though. For the price, I don't have to worry if I turn it into a butter knife.

The more I read on this forum the more gems I find. I watched the series on honing last night on You Tube which I was directed to from links in the sticky section of "honing" on our forum.

Of course, as usual I'm jumping WAY ahead and I think I'm going to learn how to strop first!

 

[Frank Shaves]

Excellent choice!

I bought one of these recently. The blade on the one I bought is a tad wonky - meaning not perfectly straight - which is even better. Not saying the blade on yours is wonky .

 

[SparkyLB]

Excellent choice!

I bought one of these recently. The blade on the one I bought is a tad wonky - meaning not perfectly straight - which is even better. Not saying the blade on yours is wonky .

I know you did! That's where I got the name W.H. Morley and Sons from. Your steel looks a lot better.

It would be a treat if I could one day turn this thing into a shaver.

 

[Frank Shaves]

I know you did! That's where I got the name W.H. Morley and Sons from. Your steel looks a lot better.

It would be a treat if I could one day turn this thing into a shaver.

Cleaning it up is easy. Get yourself some 200/240, 400, 800, 1200, 2000 grit wet/dry sandpaper, and just sand the blade one grit at a time. No need to remove the scales on your razor. Be careful holding the razor. After a little practice you will learn to do it without cutting yourself. The cuts are part of your indoctrination.

After 2000 grit, I use 00 and 0000 steel wool followed by Mothers polish. Not sure the steel wool is necessary, and you can use the steel and/or Mothers on the scales. Takes a few hours, but you will be amazed at how nice the razor cleans up.

I usually spray the entire blade with WD-40 getting into the pivot pin for the first two grits. The WD-40 contains a compound that will convert any red oxide (rust) to black oxide (magnetite) which is inert.

Full disclosure: If the pitting is really deep, I go down to 100 grit.

 

[Frank Shaves]

Before I forget. Wrapping the sandpaper around a wine cork works well for parts of the blade, especially the blade faces.

I normally sand the entire blade parallel to the edge and then finish sanding the blade faces perpendicular to the edge - which is the direction in which most razors are ground. Rattlers are normally ground parallel to the edge.

If you look closely at a blade that has not been restored, you should be able to see the original grind marks.

 

[SparkyLB]

Before I forget. Wrapping the sandpaper around a wine cork works well for parts of the blade, especially the blade faces.

I normally sand the entire blade parallel to the edge and then finish sanding the blade faces perpendicular to the edge - which is the direction in which most razors are ground. Rattlers are normally ground parallel to the edge.

If you look closely at a blade that has not been restored, you should be able to see the original grind marks.

Yes. I've noticed the machine marks on my Dovo that look like ribs. Thanks!

 

[Frank Shaves]

Yes. I've noticed the machine marks on my Dovo that look like ribs. Thanks!

When I started cleaning up blades, my obsessive compulsive wanted to try to remove the grind marks. I now find the grind marks to be cool and see them as part of a razor's DNA.

 

[SparkyLB]

I've loved the ribs from the first time I saw them. I consider them a sign of consistency/health of the machine/machining that made them. On a Rolex they'd be called unacceptable chatter marks. On a straight razor, they just appeal to me.

 

[JPO]

I've made an executive decision. I've had so many questions and everyone's been so helpful. I've mentioned that I'm impulsive and a weakness of mine is this inability to wait.

First romance was being enamored by the lure of balsa strops. I made a set. I noticed straight away that the very edge wasn't making contact with the balsa. I knew this first by feel, then by accident--as a newcomer I lifted the spine accidentally and only then did I hear the "music" you all speak of with extra full ground hollows.

It occurred to me this was happening because Jarrod of The Superior Shave uses convex stones and this yields a hollow grind on the blade. Since the very edge looks like a gunsmith's screwdriver tip, the edge doesn't contact the wood.

I also felt like I wasn't getting the best shave. I had to use way too much pressure, and I won't recount everything you were all kind enough to tell me. Two things come to mind, and you know who you are. One of you told me, "Either way you're gonna need leather." Someone else said, "there are two kinds of pressure, the pressure against your face, and the pressure it takes to cut hair." Bottom line was you gave me pointers and this little voice in my mind kept saying, "Nope, ain't that." "Can't be that either."

You told me:
1. Stretch your skin
2. Prepare your beard
3. Work on your technique
4. YOU MUST HAVE LEATHER!!, and other gems I decided not to hear.

Don't get me wrong, I knew your were right, but I wanted solutions now! It's amazing what the impulsive mind does when you just don't want to listen!!

I made myself a honing setup with acrylic and purchased lapping films. I'm all ready to go. I decided I would remove the hollow-ground edge Jarrod gave me and hone my own brand-new razor. I consider myself reasonably intelligent, but do you see the irony in this guy who NEVER TOUCHED A STRAIGHT EDGE BEFORE going to remove an edge made by a trained man, and hone my own? What a great joke that is.

Then it hit me tonight. Just a few minutes ago. I have a brand-new Dovo that was not cheap. Its edge was crafted by a man who was trained in Solingen. Cerebral behemoth I am, I am going to take off this coticule-formed edge, re-hone a brand new blade so my balsa strops will work--I would go on, but you surely see the insanity that I didn't catch in my haste.

Today I had three days growth and I prepped my beard and stretched my skin. Really stretched it. "All the difference in the world" is a little strong, but I certainly felt the difference. I think it kind-of opened my eyes. I'm going to work on 1-4 above and see how things evolve before I change anything.

I am going too fast. I am going to slow down. I am NOT going to touch this blade until my strop from Tony Miller arrives and then we'll see how things go. I won't touch this metal with a stone, diamond paste or anything but a strop.

I appreciate everyone's input. I'm glad I didn't undo the edge on this wonderful straight razor that I got.

Deep breath. Exhale. Strop. Shave. Practice. Wait, lather, repeat.

Worst case scenario I'll buy a "vintage" razor off eBay for $20 max. and put a new edge on that. (Just for practice.....)

Damn it, man. Gimme enough rope. . . LOL

If you are not getting contact with the entire bevel you are probably flexing the blade too much. A concave bevel will actually make better contact when you move to a flat surface. The bevel created on a convex surface gives you a more shallow angle. When you move to the balsa you are creating a steeper convex apex.

 

[SparkyLB]

If you are not getting contact with the entire bevel you are probably flexing the blade too much. A concave bevel will actually make better contact when you move to a flat surface. The bevel created on a convex surface gives you a more shallow angle. When you move to the balsa you are creating a steeper convex apex.

Thanks for the reply. So the concave bevel on the very edge does NOT hinder contact with the balsa strop? If I understand, when you say steeper, the balsa strop is thinning out the very edge?

 

[JPO]

Thanks for the reply. So the concave bevel on the very edge does NOT hinder contact with the balsa strop? If I understand, when you say steeper, the balsa strop is thinning out the very edge?

The balsa is not thinning the bevel. You just end up with a slightly convex bevel. No harm in that. It can be a really simple way to maintain an edge.

 

[APBinNCA]

If you are not getting contact with the entire bevel you are probably flexing the blade too much. A concave bevel will actually make better contact when you move to a flat surface. The bevel created on a convex surface gives you a more shallow angle. When you move to the balsa you are creating a steeper convex apex.

Is this basically the same affect of putting a micro bevel on my axes? Namely that it is only affecting the very end providing some strength/resistance to dulling. You still have a convex, but it is less convex in other words?