What equipment, at moderate cost, do I need...

[PittViper]

I am soon going to purchase my 1st real SR. The initial one I bought from Amazon, claiming to be "shave ready" is definitely not, from the discussions I've had on this site so far.

So, as I'm saving for the "real" SR that I want, I'd like to learn what equipment, moderately priced, not the cheapest, but not way overboard either, that I need to possess to hone and strop my own blades.

By way of background, I am a knife nut, and collect, carry, use, and sharpen all of my regular EDC carry knives. I've managed, with the equipment and methods I use, to usually obtain a beyond razor sharp edge on most of them, and for me it really depends on the steel and my patience.

So, in preparation for doing the same for any SR's I may currently/eventually possess, what is the most moderate cost essential equipment I need to do as I need to to maintain the edge on the SR?

I know next to nothing about honing a SR, as it is way thinner than any EDC knives I carry. I'm also certain that I need to learn stropping. I own a strop, mounted to wood, dual sided, that I use on my regular knives. One side is the suede side loaded with CrOx, the other side is smooth leather that I treat with Dia-Spray, .5 micron, for the final polished edge. I'm curious if any of this can be of any use to me in the SR world.

Also own 2 regular leather strops. But, just recently acquired them, when I got the supposedly "shave ready" SR from Amazon. So, this blade I will keep to practice techniques on.

I wish you guys to educate me on the bare essentials I need to maintain a "good" blade. The following link is what I am thinking of getting.

Boker Carbon Elite 3.0 140544 6/8 Straight Razor, Professionally Honed

I have professionally sharpened each of these razors and performed a shave test. These razors are SHAVE READY. The razor will be pre- stropped and oiled - just wipe off the oil and shave!!!Note: These are honed to order, there will be a brief delay in shipping in order to prepare the...

maggardrazors.com

So, I'm now ready for my education!

I thank all of you who may participate in this discussion.

Thanks.

 

[Lightcs1776]

In my opinion, honing a SR is easier than a knife. The angle is done for you when you keep the spine and blade edge on the honing materials. There is a lot of information on the forum on how to hone.

Bare essentials would be a razor, trop, lapping film, and perhaps a pasted balsa board (I use the pasted balsa to maintain the edge, significantly reducing the need to go back to lapping film. I use film instead of stones, but those who use stones go through a progression similar to 1K for bevel setting, 4k, 8k and 12k. I believe there are some that will go to a higher stone as well. For the razor, Boker has a good reputation. You can also find used SRs on the BST site, Gem Star Razors, just to name two. Both of these two are very reliable. I'm sure others can give you more recommendations.

 

[bluesman 7]

I would recommend a second shave ready razor in addition to the Boker. You've probably got all you need to get a good start with your strops. A shave ready razor can be kept going for a long time on clean and occasionally pasted strops. The reason for the two razors is that you can use them to leapfrog your skill level. At some point one of the razor will start performing poorer than the other. You can start trying to improve it with honing and or pasted strops. Don't touch the better razor until the one that you're working on out performs it. At that point take the worst of the two and make it your best. Rince and repeat.

 

[rbscebu]

@PittViper the first thing you will need to do is unlearn your bad habits from knife sharpening. SR honing is a totally new ball game. I was fortunate in that I never could properly hone a knife.

The cheapest way to hone a SR from scratch is with lapping film on a hand-held acrylic substrate. You will find everything you need to know here. That is how I started - thankfully.

I now use a mix of synthetic whetstones, lapping films and diamond pasted balsa strops. Set the bevel on 1k to 3k synthetic, start refining on an 8k synthetic before moving on to 5μm, 3μm and 1μm (about 25k) lapping films. That gives me a very good shave-ready edge.

For further refining to a laser keen edge, I use diamond pasted balsa strops; 0.5μm (about 50k), 0.25μm (about 100k), 0.1μm (about 200k) and finally 0.1μm hanging.

 

[Legion]

The first thing I would recommend is getting your first razor honed by someone who really knows what they are doing, and is good at it. That way you have a bench mark for what a properly shave ready razor feels like when you shave with it. Without that you will be flying blind when you want to hone yourself.

After that, you just need a good leather strop, and something to touch up the razor as the edge fades, be it a fine finishing hone, or you can probably make to with your CrOx strop for a while.

 

[PittViper]

@PittViper the first thing you will need to do is unlearn your bad habits from knife sharpening. SR honing is a totally new ball game. I was fortunate in that I never could properly hone a knife.

The cheapest way to hone a SR from scratch is with lapping film on a hand-held acrylic substrate. You will find everything you need to know here. That is how I started - thankfully.

I now use a mix of synthetic whetstones, lapping films and diamond pasted balsa strops. Set the bevel on 1k to 3k synthetic, start refining on an 8k synthetic before moving on to 5μm, 3μm and 1μm (about 25k) lapping films. That gives me a very good shave-ready edge.

For further refining to a laser keen edge, I use diamond pasted balsa strops; 0.5μm (about 50k), 0.25μm (about 100k), 0.1μm (about 200k) and finally 0.1μm hanging.

Thanks for the link. I will be checking it out.

 

[Herrenberg]

When I started on all this, I figured honing a razor to a keen edge would be so much easier than honing a knife. Built-in angle guide? Pfft. Piece of cake.

Nope. I learned about pressure, and the rolling X-stroke. Turns out when you are dealing with such a fine edge, you need lots of subtle tricks to pamper it to an appealing keenness.

The best thing, though, is you get to test all the results on your face, which makes for a better learning curve than just cutting brisket or tomatoes or turnips or potatoes.

 

[PittViper]

In my opinion, honing a SR is easier than a knife. The angle is done for you when you keep the spine and blade edge on the honing materials. There is a lot of information on the forum on how to hone.

Bare essentials would be a razor, trop, lapping film, and perhaps a pasted balsa board (I use the pasted balsa to maintain the edge, significantly reducing the need to go back to lapping film. I use film instead of stones, but those who use stones go through a progression similar to 1K for bevel setting, 4k, 8k and 12k. I believe there are some that will go to a higher stone as well. For the razor, Boker has a good reputation. You can also find used SRs on the BST site, Gem Star Razors, just to name two. Both of these two are very reliable. I'm sure others can give you more recommendations.

Thanks so much. Since I have "sharpening" general knowledge, I do understand progression of coarseness, just have never sharpened a razor blade. Actually, until I got into these forums, I didn't realize it was so popular. If you look at the beginning of my original post in this thread, you will see my intended first good SR, and I am pretty sure, as I will tt the place, that it is beyond shave ready. Thanks again.

 

[PittViper]

When I started on all this, I figured honing a razor to a keen edge would be so much easier than honing a knife. Built-in angle guide? Pfft. Piece of cake.

Nope. I learned about pressure, and the rolling X-stroke. Turns out when you are dealing with such a fine edge, you need lots of subtle tricks to pamper it to an appealing keenness.

The best thing, though, is you get to test all the results on your face, which makes for a better learning curve than just cutting brisket or tomatoes or turnips or potatoes.

Thanks a lot, I will keep that in mind!

 

[PittViper]

@PittViper the first thing you will need to do is unlearn your bad habits from knife sharpening. SR honing is a totally new ball game. I was fortunate in that I never could properly hone a knife.

The cheapest way to hone a SR from scratch is with lapping film on a hand-held acrylic substrate. You will find everything you need to know here. That is how I started - thankfully.

I now use a mix of synthetic whetstones, lapping films and diamond pasted balsa strops. Set the bevel on 1k to 3k synthetic, start refining on an 8k synthetic before moving on to 5μm, 3μm and 1μm (about 25k) lapping films. That gives me a very good shave-ready edge.

For further refining to a laser keen edge, I use diamond pasted balsa strops; 0.5μm (about 50k), 0.25μm (about 100k), 0.1μm (about 200k) and finally 0.1μm hanging.

Hi,
Thanks for your reply.

I did pm you, so if you see it, perhaps you can direct me with that question.

I've been searching Amazon for the honing, balsa stropping necessities, and have everything in my cart I think I need bar the balsa. I will try a hobby shop.

I hope you get back to me on my pm message.

Thanks,

Viper

BTW, if I didn't pm you by accident, and did so to someone else, I apologize. My question is a comprehensive guide to daily stropping with leather (or balsa), like the honing compendium. I wish to see such a compendium for stropping as well.

 

[rbscebu]

.... My question is a comprehensive guide to daily stropping with leather (or balsa), like the honing compendium. I wish to see such a compendium for stropping as well.

If I get the time. I'll try and put together a guide to daily leather stropping. My guide will only cover stropping on clean hanging leather and clean hanging cloth as I am not experienced enough with pasted hanging strops. Someone else may be able to put together one for pasted stropping.

The use of pasted balsa strops is well covered here:

How To Use a Pasted Balsa Strop

Having gone into some detail when asked or prompted in many threads, I thought I should comprehensively lay out the method in a separate thread, for reference. Thing 1. The Balsa Strop. Buy 3" wide balsa. Best to buy a 36" length. It is cheaper. Hobby Hut, Hobby Lobby, and other brick and...

www.badgerandblade.com

There is no shortcut to learning this skill. Read all of the thread taking notes as you go. Then read all of it again to check and modify your notes. It shouldn't take longer than a few hours. Well worth it for the knowledge that you will gain.

The pasted balsa progression that I normally use is given here:

How To Use a Pasted Balsa Strop - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/how-to-use-a-pasted-balsa-strop.473580/post-11382391

 

[rbscebu]

Here is a link to the B&B Wiki that should cover all of your required stropping knowledge:

Search results for query: Stropping

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[PittViper]

I thank you all for the advice. I do realize that sharpening death blowing knives is much different that sharpening a SR, but I somehow feel that my knowledge of sharpening and steel will make my beginning journey a bit less stressful.

Given the fact that my first SR is a Zertone, which is definitely not shave ready, I will use that as a practice razor, much like the GD's mentioned. I am not super familiar with making this thin of an edge.

I have read, and printed for refence, the guides on how to hone. What I seek now is best practices for after shave stropping, to keep the keen edge in shape. I don't think I will have a tough time with honing, as I doo have experience, perhaps too much, with creating a very sharp cutting edge. But, I do realize that creating a shaving edge on a SR is different. I just don't think the learning curve will be as difficult as for others.

Ideallly, I would like to own the proper stones for the process. But, from what I have seen, the stropping tapes will be my best bet. I cannot invest ~$1000 on stones, most unfortunately, at this, or any other, point.

I have all necessities in my Amazon cart, barring the balsa wood, which I will look for in a local hobby store.

Just an fyi for those following me, today I did strop my Zertone on my paddle strop loaded on one side with CrOx. Then, I stropped it on the bare leather side, without adding .5u Zia-Spray. I shaved, and it was "somewhat" better, but still pulled/tugged a lot. Definitely now what I'm going for.

I think once I get the above aforementioned professionally honed SR, I will know what a real SR shave feels like. Once I know that, I do know that with the guidance I have found here, as well as my own experience with honing/polishing deadly steel, will come in to play. I don't expect my learning curve to be lengthy, though this whole subject is new to me. Yes, I do know how to sharpen regular knives, but using that knowledge I think will aid me in this new endeavor.

I do wish though I could just buy the proper bench stones, but it is VERY cost prohibitive for me.

I will use my Zertone as my proving ground. If the steel is decent, I should be able to get a proper bevel on it, as well as make it as sharp as it can be.

Still, though, I have the question of stropping daily, or whenever, after shaving. I have read a great deal about diamond pasted balsa strops. That may be the way to go. I have also read that just using a straight leather hanging barber strop would suffice. I have seen much debate over that. I am curious as to how you experts as SR shaving maintain your blades once they are properly honed and have the correct bevel.

Also, yes, I do have a jewler's loop. I used to use it to check my edges of my regular knives, until I knew enough about what I was doing to not need it. I'll have to find it and dig it out to assist me in this process.

So, any/all assistance regarding what I have said is appreciated.

I would like to start with a professionally prepared shaving edge, and keep it that way. But, I have read so many different methods, that I don't really know which way to go. I will most likely purchase my posted Boker this month, but I really would like to learn how to "best" maintain it, after/before each shave, as to not ever have to send it to somebody to be re-honed.

So, I look to you experts for this advice. I don't think forgetting "everything" I know about knife sharpening really applies. I know a great deal about blade steel, and the difficulty of sharpening and edge holding of various types. Also, I do know what a regular EDC/Protection/Combat knife should and could feel like, so I think I have, and pardon the pun, and edge in that direction.

Please enlighten me as to how to maintain an already prepared shave ready SR.

Thanks to all of you,

Viper

 

[Legion]

You are right in saying that there will be some advantages to having knife honing experience, but others are right that a lot of it is not applicable. The tricky bit when you are crossing over is working out where the overlap is.

I'm the same, but coming from the other direction, as I am just now trying to learn all the various aspects of freehand knife sharpening.

A few thoughts.

A razor hone needs to be very flat, and that is more important than with knives.

Razors need a much lighter touch, and might flex with normal knife pressures. For me I had to learn that pressure was needed for knives sometimes, and that was an ah-ha moment.

On a razor you are usually not trying to raise burrs, or at least they are so fine you will not be feeling them, so that is something you can't rely on.

Because the spine and bevel are on the hone at the same time, even tiny irregularities on a razors grind will cause you a PITA, and working those issues out requires problem solving techniques that knives have not prepared you for.

Razors are not harder, but for people crossing over, either way, the first hurdle is working out the differences. I sometimes think my knife sharpening would be further progressed if I had started knowing nothing, and followed the instructions of expert knife people, and not had to unlearn various habits I have from razor honing.

 

[bluesman 7]

PitViper, there is absolutely nothing sub par with lapping films when compared to synthetic stones. I find them a bit fussy and they do wear out, but the edges attainable are very comparable. I don't see where you listed any stones that you use for your knife sharpening, but it's likely that they will suffice for the low and mid range if you get to where you need to do more that touch up an edge. You probably only need 1 and 3 micron films. Make sure to buy plain film and not the PSA backed stuff.

I don't have any direct experience with Maggard's edges, but I'm pretty sure that I've read good things on that front.

 

[Slash McCoy]

It sounds like you did not do your homework yet.

I think I should explain a little bit about The Method, why it is a big deal, and why it probably will not work for you, although that is of course all up to you.

Most accomplished straight shavers and honers on this forum thrashed around and hashed around with all sorts of equipment and techniques on the road to a decent shave and hopefully a GREAT shave. This leaping about like a frightened spider is expensive in terms of money and time, and sub par shaves. Learning COSTS. You get good results after learning, and you learn by experience and by making mistakes, and suffering for them. The process takes years. There are a lot of false starts in odd directions. It is natural and no reflection on the aspiring straight shaver. It took me many YEARS before I was getting satisfactory shaves.

But what if you didn't have to "learn" how? What if you could just DO it, by the book, so to speak? No trial and error. Just get it right the first time. The devil is in the details, and the details, cumulatively, can make or break the shave. What if the details were already decided, and the entire process micromanaged and guided optimally? A newbie could maybe get a professional quality edge and have a fighting chance at a good shave right out the gate! Well, it turns out, when all the stops are pulled and the i's crossed and the t's dotted, a noob can achieve BETTER than professional results, by the second attempt, at the least, and definitely a usable edge on the first try. It's all about short circuiting the learning process. You learn by doing, so begin by doing, not learning. No experimenting, no trying different stuff, no deciding, no guessing, no judgement calls, no random choices that feel good or look good.

And so, The Method. It has evolved over the last several years, and many of us have worked at optimizing it. The threads are long. The details are complex and the changes can be confusing. Some things from the very beginning remain the same and do not change. Some things have been optimized and are much different from the crude beginnings. But the idea is the same, a removal of subjectivity and random chance. As I said, the devil is in the details. The ability to read, comprehend, and follow complicated instructions to the letter, are key to early and staggeringly successful success. Think of it as paint by numbers, for honer/shavers. Freestyling will doom your efforts to mediocrity, at least at the beginning. Those who accept The Method as dogma and follow it like religion, get better than professional results. Early. Cheaply. It is that simple.

A good test of your viability as a potential Method honer is what you have bought so far. You have ordered materials for your balsa strops. The Method specifies 3" x 12" x 3/4+" acrylic. I now use 1-1/2" thick. Is that what you ordered, exactly? Did you order .5µ, .25µ, and .1µ paste? Are you shopping for 2" x 12" pieces, or a single 36" piece, of 1/4" balsa? That is what the specifications are in the threads. What if you use a smaller size? Can it still work? Yes, of course. But WILL it work, if you will not blindly follow directions? Not very well, at first. The cumulative effect of many decisions made by someone who does not yet know how to hone razors, will put you right back in the exercise wheel with everyone else. The Method works when you do not consider any step or any detail unimportant, when you do not think that "B" would be just as good or better than the specified "A", when you do not make a choice by gut feeling or because it just seems like it might be better, or when you overlook some detail. Not everyone is capable of wrapping their mind around the idea of trusting the judgement of others entirely and in minute detail. Those who can, and do, are rewarded with success. As you DO, you learn this one way of making and keeping a razor insanely sharp. You "graduate", by presenting The Method to the next generation of newbies, and then embark, if you must, on your journey of discovery into other ways of honing.

I may well be wrong, but I have the distinct impression that Zertone is the successor brand name to the infamous and miserably failed ZeePK. IOW, Pakistani garbage. I would relegate that one to a stropping practice razor. Perhaps someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe it is an RSO. Because of the exacting nature of the shave ready straight razor edge, it is indeed possible for a razor to be so crappy that not only will the edge quickly fail in use, but that it can not even be honed to a reasonable standard in the first place.

Rule number one. START with a verified SHAVE READY razor. Or better yet, two of them. Just because a seller says that a razor is shave ready, means nothing, unless the seller is a respected member of the straight razor community. That means a long standing member of a straight razor forum, or at least a vendor that many such members will vouch for. Most of those razors you see on fleabay are being sold by people who do not even shave with straight razors. Some who do not shave at all, being of the fairer sex. Never trust someone who does not shave daily with a straight razor to hone yours. Doomed to failure. There are a few ebay sellers who are known in the community as reliable. Ebay sellers april7th1989 and johnloc1 are okay. If either says a particular offering is shave ready, it is. Keep a close eye on the BST, too. Remember that the best
deals are usually snapped up within hours, if not minutes of being posted. LEARN TO SHAVE FIRST, and THEN start honing. This is another one of those details I was talking about. If you don't do it that way, you are not doomed to eternal failure, but you are doomed to a lot of the thrashing about that I mentioned earlier.

Nobody can help you if you do not follow advice well given.

Pick ONE style of honing and stick with it, using the accepted type and brand of tools and materials for that style of honing, and do not change until you have achieved great success with it. If someone else (such as the person who presented it to you) can achieve success with it, then you can, too, if you do it exactly like he does it. I believe The Method is by far and away your best bet. If you disagree in your infinite wisdom and non existent straight razor experience, then by all means, follow someone else, but FOLLOW. Stay on the path well traveled, if you want to reach a reasonable destination as painlessly as possible.

Don't paste a leather strop. Don't use a paddle or bench strop. Get, or make, a reasonable quality, reasonably sized strop, and strop your RSO. Over and over. Remember always flip the EDGE up and over, never the spine. The spine touches down first, then the edge. The spine stays on the strop when you turn around at the end of the stroke. Don't let the strop sag; keep it nice and tight. Don't press hard. Use a slight x stroke pattern even if the strop is plenty wide enough to take the whole edge. Do not run the shoulder up on the strop.

If you ask for advice and receive it, follow it. Why ask how to do something and then not do it that way? Don't be your own worst enemy.

Newbie Honing Compendium | Badger & Blade

Read. Everything is there.

 

[cotedupy]

^ All of what David (and others) said above. ^

A few further thoughts...

I assume you use stones to sharpen your knives? If so - it's likely that you could get away with just them, a strop, and adding a final finisher.

Even if you didn't have any stones you wouldn't need to spend anywhere close to $1000 to be set up well for razors. You could do it for under $200 very easily. Or use films as BM7 said above.

You're right imo... If you have a good understanding of how edges work, then you can watch a few videos, think about why razors are different, and you'll understand better why things haven't worked when you balls up. If you can tell what's wrong then you're at a big advantage. Just remember that if something isn't right then you'll need to fix it in quite a delicate, methodical, and time-consuming way. Because you're abrading far less steel, you can't really hurry razor edges. You'll see what I mean by this when you start.

A point you already made - learning to strop a razor really is quite different, for me at least it took a while to get my head around how to do it consistently well. I would very much recommend getting a hanging strop, rather than a fixed one, and don't paste it. Paste balsa by all means, but pasting a hanging strop for a razor edge is going to do weird stuff because the final stage of razor stropping is trying to achieve something a wee bit different to knives.

---

To be completely honest - I think it sounds like you've thought about and researched it a fair bit already. You won't find it too tricky, and hopefully not too expensive. Have fun... it's interesting!

 

[Christian1212]

I would suggest before worrying about sharpening your razor you find an edge you like to shave with. Let's you practice maintaining an edge and see what type of edge you want to chase.

I suggest a decent hanging strop, you can find suggestions on this site somewhere. The paste you have will be good at bringing any shave ready razor you have back to life possibly (might want to keep medium for razor separate from knife. Not sure if paste set up for knife might have something in it that ruins the razor edge)

 

[Darth Scandalous]

What stones do you own now?

 

[Leverspro]

So, regarding the title of this thread, what is the "moderate" cost of joining the cult of straights?