Help me understand razor comfort

[Doc Dan]

Hi Folks.
Help me to understand a comfortable shave. There are so many variants involved. It is not just blade gap, apparently. Some razors with more blade gap are far smoother and more comfortable to shave with than razors with less blade gap. Then, there is blade angle. What does that do for comfort?

Let me see if I can explain my dilemma with a few examples (out of many). The EJ DE89 with a blade gap of .76 (I think) is a lot smoother and more comfortable than a Game Changer .68, which has less blade gap, or .84, which has a bit more, to my face. Even the Henson is not quite as smooth. It is close, but not quite there. These have a very small blade gap of .027 and .033. Why is the DE89 smoother and more efficient at cutting my beard? It is a vastly more comfortable shave.

Some razors are just much more comfortable. They feel smooth and clean and glide across the face. Blade gap is not a good measure, and I am not sure about angle. Is it magic? Of course not. There must be some quantifiable data that can help anyone to know if a razor is going to be comfortable or not when compared to other known data.

 

[Multum in parvo]

I’m not sure if this is riddle is solvable. To add one more variable, different blades make razors behave differently as well. So again it’s simply trial and error until you find your magic combination.

 

[Ivo4u2]

So difficult to tell, razors and blades behave differently as a combo. For me they react on which soap, prep, soap thickness etc. And in general I prefer heavy razors over light ones since they seem to give a more effortless gliding cutting Motion compared to light ones.
I feel and hear my Henson cut and my snmirn is audible there but just cuts and glides more effortless with less feedback. Both can cut me atg…
My Oren works wonderfull rarely cuts me but it does not glide as the snmirn.
I am afraid it is going to be trial and error but what a ride, have fun

 

[Medivh]

There's no straight answer to your question and it's more like what you like and what works for you and your face instead of looking for an universal solution that works for everyone.

After trying over 30 different both vintage and modern razors, I can to the conclusion that I prefer razors with thinner heads that hold the blade very tight and secure with positive blade exposure and at the same time made to be used with a steep angle. I can also use other razors as well, but i'm 99% sure that this is my ''perfect'' razor combo.

But that doesn't mean that everyone is going to like what I like and if you really want to go deeper into the rabbit hole in the pursuit of finding the ''best'' razor for you, then you have to experiment and figure out what works for you and what you like the most.

 

[musicman1951]

If there is a way to look at razor specs and know if it's going to be comfortable for your face I sure don't know what it might be. Different skin, different hair, different technique - you might get in the ballpark with suggestions.

I have a very scientific way to select razors: you pays your money and you takes your chances.

ATT (last I knew) had a trial period for new razors, and they make some lovely razors. That's the only safe place I know.

 

[Old Grump]

As you consider the variables that contribute to razor comfort, factor in blade exposure and blade angle. IMO, they both have a huge effect on both comfort and efficiency. So does guard span, I think, but its effect isn't as clear to me.

 

[muzichead]

ATT (last I knew) had a trial period for new razors, and they make some lovely razors. That's the only safe place I know.

Timeless and Blackland have the same 30 day warranty also... Both are excellent companies to deal with, American Made products, and the razors are outstanding!!

 

[Suddenlythisoverview]

ATT (last I knew) had a trial period for new razors, and they make some lovely razors. That's the only safe place I know.

You can return Blackland and Timeless razors as well, but you’re right that the only way to figure any of this out is to try for yourself.

Comparing blade gaps only makes sense for the same razor design (for example, Timeless .68 to .95).

What’s so interesting about de razors is the geometry can be so varied. How flexed the blade is, the way the guard is shaped, etc. There’s not one variable that You can look at to tell you if a razor is going to be good for you.

For a long time I bought into the concept of the blade needing to be clamped for rigidity, so I was hesitant to try the Blackbird, but it’s now a razor I enjoy a lot.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

There must be some quantifiable data that can help anyone to know if a razor is going to be comfortable or not when compared to other known data.

There isn’t.

 

[Doc Dan]

There must be something, perhaps a bunch of somethings together. Certainly, people who make razors don't just say, "I'm going to make a razor and don't care how it shaves." I was looking on the internet at a Charcoal Goods Everyday and it has the same blade gap as the EJ DE89 and as far as I can tell, it may have the same angle (not at all sure about that). Would they shave and behave similarly? How can a Henson do so well with only a little bit of blade gap? I may go nuts figuring this out.

 

[muzichead]

There must be something, perhaps a bunch of somethings together. Certainly, people who make razors don't just say, "I'm going to make a razor and don't care how it shaves." I was looking on the internet at a Charcoal Goods Everyday and it has the same blade gap as the EJ DE89 and as far as I can tell, it may have the same angle (not at all sure about that). Would they shave and behave similarly? How can a Henson do so well with only a little bit of blade gap? I may go nuts figuring this out.

The last thing I'd usually look at is blade gap in any razor. The geometry in how the blade is flexed, how its clamped down, and blade exposure are much more important!!

 

[Multum in parvo]

There must be something, perhaps a bunch of somethings together. Certainly, people who make razors don't just say, "I'm going to make a razor and don't care how it shaves." I was looking on the internet at a Charcoal Goods Everyday and it has the same blade gap as the EJ DE89 and as far as I can tell, it may have the same angle (not at all sure about that). Would they shave and behave similarly? How can a Henson do so well with only a little bit of blade gap? I may go nuts figuring this out.

Engineering and intention in development is one thing how the system feels for YOU is something other. I understand what you want to achieve but I don’t believe it is possible to get every variable under one hat.

 

[APBinNCA]

There must be something, perhaps a bunch of somethings together. Certainly, people who make razors don't just say, "I'm going to make a razor and don't care how it shaves." I was looking on the internet at a Charcoal Goods Everyday and it has the same blade gap as the EJ DE89 and as far as I can tell, it may have the same angle (not at all sure about that). Would they shave and behave similarly? How can a Henson do so well with only a little bit of blade gap? I may go nuts figuring this out.

There is something and it is being alluded to above: the angle you try to hold the razor at and shave. Your EJ and the Gillette Tech both don't bend the blade as much as many modern razor designs. When you put it to your face, you can rotate it until you just barely feel the blade cutting. They are neutral exposure razors, but because the blade is sticking almost straight out they transition from slicing cuts to scrapping cuts very abruptly. Meaning, you they don't have a wide range of angles that they work at. A design like the Henson that bends the blade so much means that it is very hard to tell where the blade is by feel. You have to either hear it cutting or trust the design, use the flat side. It has a much wider range of angles and this can be a blessing or a curse because it doesn't necessarily work right at all angles. Also, you have the wrong measurements for the Henson. You are quoting the inch measurements, they are 0.68 and 0.84. That is part of what gives them the wide range of angles when combined with the angle the blade is bent at. When you are holding it correctly it is like holding a razor for steep shaving, but the blade itself isn't scrapping. It's making a 30 degree slicing cut. One other advantage to the Henson design, and few others, is that the whole side of the razor on four sides of the blade is like one big guard and that distributes the slight pressure over a larger area thereby reducing the pressure on the blade. Whereas on some razors, especially steep designs, the only support you have is the narrow edge of the safety bar and you have to tip the blade in and maintain the blade just off your skin by muscle memory. I really want to see how the new Charcoal Goods performs with that tall domed cap, it might provide some support in spite of the positive blade exposure on the lvl 2 and lvl 3.

 

[kingfisher]

For smoothness, to me there are three important factors.

1) Blade exposure. How far does the blade edge stick out from an imaginary line connecting the top cap to the baseplate?

2) Blade clamping/stability. How much does the blade wiggle or move/vibrate when it runs into difficult obstacles?

3) Rounding/smoothing of the safety bar. Nobody ever talks about this, but I think this is hugely important. The actual contour of the metal where it touches the skin is hugely important.
In my opinion, too many razor designers make their razor edges too thin or pointy, largely in an effort to make the entire razor svelte. People say these are easier to use under the nose, but to me that's a technique issue. Every step the razor designer makes to make the part of the razor that touches the face sharper is a step that takes away from the razor's smoothness.

 

[Medivh]

For smoothness, to me there are three important factors.

1) Blade exposure. How far does the blade edge stick out from an imaginary line connecting the top cap to the baseplate?

2) Blade clamping/stability. How much does the blade wiggle or move/vibrate when it runs into difficult obstacles?

3) Rounding/smoothing of the safety bar. Nobody ever talks about this, but I think this is hugely important. The actual contour of the metal where it touches the skin is hugely important.
In my opinion, too many razor designers make their razor edges too thin or pointy, largely in an effort to make the entire razor svelte. People say these are easier to use under the nose, but to me that's a technique issue. Every step the razor designer makes to make the part of the razor that touches the face sharper is a step that takes away from the razor's smoothness.

The smoothness of the safety bar is indeed very important just as well as the other things. The Razorock Lupo for instance is a very nice razor and I like it a lot, but i'm not a fan of the safety bar pattern they have. If they made it smooth like the Game Changer is, it would have been much better imho. I've seen lots of open comb razors with very rough and spiky looking combs that turn me off from buying them.

 

[Doc Dan]

For smoothness, to me there are three important factors.

1) Blade exposure. How far does the blade edge stick out from an imaginary line connecting the top cap to the baseplate?

2) Blade clamping/stability. How much does the blade wiggle or move/vibrate when it runs into difficult obstacles?

3) Rounding/smoothing of the safety bar. Nobody ever talks about this, but I think this is hugely important. The actual contour of the metal where it touches the skin is hugely important.
In my opinion, too many razor designers make their razor edges too thin or pointy, largely in an effort to make the entire razor svelte. People say these are easier to use under the nose, but to me that's a technique issue. Every step the razor designer makes to make the part of the razor that touches the face sharper is a step that takes away from the razor's smoothness.

I think you are probably on to something. I can't love my two Game Changers, no matter what blades I use. I do get good shaves, but they are not quite as enjoyable for me (though better than many other razors). The GC's are more blade sensitive, too. The EJ DE89 and both Hensons are superbly smooth and comfortable and nowhere near as blade choice sensitive. I think those three factors are a large reason why.

The idea about the safety bar smoothness and size is a good one and I had not really considered that.

 

[Doc Dan]

There is something and it is being alluded to above: the angle you try to hold the razor at and shave. Your EJ and the Gillette Tech both don't bend the blade as much as many modern razor designs. When you put it to your face, you can rotate it until you just barely feel the blade cutting. They are neutral exposure razors, but because the blade is sticking almost straight out they transition from slicing cuts to scrapping cuts very abruptly. Meaning, you they don't have a wide range of angles that they work at. A design like the Henson that bends the blade so much means that it is very hard to tell where the blade is by feel. You have to either hear it cutting or trust the design, use the flat side. It has a much wider range of angles and this can be a blessing or a curse because it doesn't necessarily work right at all angles. Also, you have the wrong measurements for the Henson. You are quoting the inch measurements, they are 0.68 and 0.84. That is part of what gives them the wide range of angles when combined with the angle the blade is bent at. When you are holding it correctly it is like holding a razor for steep shaving, but the blade itself isn't scrapping. It's making a 30 degree slicing cut. One other advantage to the Henson design, and few others, is that the whole side of the razor on four sides of the blade is like one big guard and that distributes the slight pressure over a larger area thereby reducing the pressure on the blade. Whereas on some razors, especially steep designs, the only support you have is the narrow edge of the safety bar and you have to tip the blade in and maintain the blade just off your skin by muscle memory. I really want to see how the new Charcoal Goods performs with that tall domed cap, it might provide some support in spite of the positive blade exposure on the lvl 2 and lvl 3.

I got this chart from Henson, I believe. I don't recall at the moment, for certain. This is where I got the figures from. I think you are right about the slicing angle, but on the DE89 it is so intuitive and even when I get it wrong it is still not bad. The Henson's give a great shave each and every time. The way that blade is bent and using their angle, there is little blade feel. Of course, the razor angle of attack can be changed and then there is a lot of blade feel. I feel you are correct in most of what you are saying. Thanks.

 

[Tirvine]

I’m not sure if this is riddle is solvable. To add one more variable, different blades make razors behave differently as well. So again it’s simply trial and error until you find your magic combination.

Would that it were that simple. Your magic combination is in a constant state of change.

 

[Doc Dan]

The blade variable can be accounted for by using the same brand and type of blade. While this does make a difference, there are other factors that have effects that need to be quantified.

 

[drb1956]

When I shave with my Parker 91R, I can feel the blade on my face, BUT, it is a feel as I stroke the razor on my face, that is a good kind of feel, and I know I am getting a close, comfortable shave. Its all about your technique, ie, the angle you hold your razor, as it glides on your face. Your soap, or cream has a lot to do with this also, as it is a thin barrier to protect your face, to keep the blade from grabbing skin. Every razor, in combo with your blade of choice, has an angle on your face where it works best, to give you a smooth, comfortable shave. I am not into the numbers, as a lot of guys, we just try different blades, to find what works best for that razor. Not into blade gap, exposure, or angle. You can drive yourself crazy if you look at this in that way. It's not rocket science, it's just shaving. Buy a boat load of blades, try them all, till you find what works best!