Williams Mug Shaving Soap

[Steve56]

I hear you @Oldschool

 

[steveclarkus]

I hear you @Oldschool

La Toja is another good old school soap I was put onto recently - as long as we are going on about oldies but goodies. Old Spice was probably my first because you got a mug and brush in their kit. I don’t recall ever using Colgate but expect all were pretty much the same.

 

[Owen Bawn]

I have used Williams Mug Soap since 1974 without interruption, and have noticed no change in the soap during that time. I have vintage Williams from the 1930s though the 80s. Essentially the same soap.

 

[mozartman]

Like many of us Williams is a favorite of mine and I hope it continues on the market. My sense is that, as the shaving soap market continues its ongoing shift from loyal users, who grew up with Williams and have used it for decades, to more recent DE shave converts that manufacturers may perceive as hobbyists, Williams could be at risk as more and more retailers drop it from their assortments of shaving products. Retailers look at gross margin contribution per product facing and a 99 cent puck of Williams is far less profitable than other mass market shaving soaps that sell for $4 - $15 each. For now the few grocers that carry Williams are selling it for one of two reasons:

1) They want a low cost product in the shaving assortment for its price halo effect (creates impression that entire assortment offers good value)
2) Analysis has identified pockets of local market demand where the low profit Williams soap in important to the overall basket of products purchased by consumers. Drop Williams from the assortment and the consumer may shift a portion of his/her shopping trips to the competition

We've already seen significant evidence of this market shift away from "old school" shaving soaps like Williams with the discontinuation of Colgate a few years back in the USA and the recent end of Palmolive shave stick production in Europe. Only a handful of retailers continue to carry Williams in-store. Combe does not support Williams with any marketing support. From Combe's perspective Williams is likely considered a near end-of-life "cash cow" that it will drop when it no longer generates sufficient profits.

Van Der Hagen has figured out that the more recent DE wet shaving converts exhibit the lower price sensitivity one might expect from hobbyists as they have shifted from $2 basic/deluxe pucks to the $4-5 Luxury pucks of very similar soaps. The rapid shift to Luxury from Deluxe on retailer shelves a few years back likely generated lots of extra profit contribution.

Bottom line that there is a significant risk that Williams could be discontinued. In my case, since our local grocer sells it for 99 cents and it has a shelf life of almost forever, I've stocked up on it in similar fashion as our B&B Palmolive Shave Stick users across the pond who did the same when that product was available for 50p in local stores.

P.S. Interesting that Walgreens, who sells Williams on-line, has been out-of-stock for the past few weeks.

All of that may be true, but so long as there is profit to be made, even at a relatively low margin, someone will step in to make it. It's true that Combe regards themselves primarily as developers of innovative new products, and probably bought the Williams line to give them steady cash flow until they come up with the next Clearasil, which Combe invented but ultimately sold to Richardson-Vicks, doubtless at a huge profit. My point was, there is a huge population in the world of shavers who can't afford canned foam, even the cheapest of which isn't especially cheap. So I still like the prospects of cheap shaving soap.

As for VDH, in my area, only the 'Luxury' version is stocked on most shelves, though I could buy the Deluxe version online. With discounts and coupons, I can still get it at around $3 per puck, full retail price $4, and it is still much cheaper than canned foam. So I think it's still in the Williams Mug market segment. This market isn't about hobbyists it's about people who don't have the money for luxury items. And VDH 'Luxury' is far from a luxury item.

 

[Lane101]

All of that may be true, but so long as there is profit to be made, even at a relatively low margin, someone will step in to make it. It's true that Combe regards themselves primarily as developers of innovative new products, and probably bought the Williams line to give them steady cash flow until they come up with the next Clearasil, which Combe invented but ultimately sold to Richardson-Vicks, doubtless at a huge profit. My point was, there is a huge population in the world of shavers who can't afford canned foam, even the cheapest of which isn't especially cheap. So I still like the prospects of cheap shaving soap.

As for VDH, in my area, only the 'Luxury' version is stocked on most shelves, though I could buy the Deluxe version online. With discounts and coupons, I can still get it at around $3 per puck, full retail price $4, and it is still much cheaper than canned foam. So I think it's still in the Williams Mug market segment. This market isn't about hobbyists it's about people who don't have the money for luxury items. And VDH 'Luxury' is far from a luxury item.

Hi Mozartman,

You are right so long as there is some incremental profit to the retailer versus the next best option for the shelf facing. My point is that at relatively low margin dollars per sale Williams is at risk of displacement by more profitable items. The best evidence for this is its disappearance from the shelves of most U.S. retailers over the past few years and the discontinuation of competing brands such as Colgate and Burma Shave. A market where Williams could generate sufficient incremental profit may exist is outside the U.S. in less developed countries. Unfortunately Williams is not distributed outside the U.S. beyond dot.com businesses that mark it up significantly above its U.S. 99 cent in-store sell price to cover handling and distribution costs. Similar to why Proraso, that sells for 2 - 3 Euros in the EU, is typically $10 in the U.S. Note that one thing that may save Williams for a while is if retailers determine that with the rise of DE hobbyists they can raise the shelf price due to reduced price sensitivity. The other two items mentioned in my first post are that retailers may want Williams for the halo effect from a 99 cent soap and importance to the broader consumer shopping basket.

The good news is that thanks to the demand in less developed countries where the need for an ultra low cost shaving soap is much greater there are options such as Arko and Godrej (India) that already fill that market position. Unfortunately limited U.S. demand means that those soaps are only available on-line for most of us in the U.S. so we have to pay marked up price. For example Godrej, that goes for 22 rupees or under 35 cents U.S. in India is sold by Maggards for $2.95 (plus shipping) to cover the above expenses. Still cheap from a hobby experimentation perspective but no longer the same as a 99 cent puck of Williams. Plenty of Arko around for a buck or two per stick for those willing to purchase case packs of 12. Not sure Williams would survive at Combe without distribution through at least some retail stores as demand would fall of significantly.

Your VDH situation is the same as that in my area. The higher price Luxury (typically $3.99 to $4.99 per 3.5 oz. puck around here) has displaced the roughly $2 Deluxe on the store shelf likely per the reasons in my original post. We can also get Deluxe online for $2.29 and often on sale for under $2. Interesting that my local grocer sells a full 11oz can of Gillette foamy for a regular price of $1.99 and occasionally has it on sale for 99 cents making it competitive with even Williams shave soap. This is why I suspect the price halo effect is important to them.

 

[mozartman]

Hi Mozartman,

You are right so long as there is some incremental profit to the retailer versus the next best option for the shelf facing. My point is that at relatively low margin dollars per sale Williams is at risk of displacement by more profitable items. The best evidence for this is its disappearance from the shelves of most U.S. retailers over the past few years and the discontinuation of competing brands such as Colgate and Burma Shave. A market where Williams could generate sufficient incremental profit may exist is outside the U.S. in less developed countries. Unfortunately Williams is not distributed outside the U.S. beyond dot.com businesses that mark it up significantly above its U.S. 99 cent in-store sell price to cover handling and distribution costs. Similar to why Proraso, that sells for 2 - 3 Euros in the EU, is typically $10 in the U.S. Note that one thing that may save Williams for a while is if retailers determine that with the rise of DE hobbyists they can raise the shelf price due to reduced price sensitivity. The other two items mentioned in my first post are that retailers may want Williams for the halo effect from a 99 cent soap and importance to the broader consumer shopping basket.

The good news is that thanks to the demand in less developed countries where the need for an ultra low cost shaving soap is much greater there are options such as Arko and Godrej (India) that already fill that market position. Unfortunately limited U.S. demand means that those soaps are only available on-line for most of us in the U.S. so we have to pay marked up price. For example Godrej, that goes for 22 rupees or under 35 cents U.S. in India is sold by Maggards for $2.95 (plus shipping) to cover the above expenses. Still cheap from a hobby experimentation perspective but no longer the same as a 99 cent puck of Williams. Plenty of Arko around for a buck or two per stick for those willing to purchase case packs of 12. Not sure Williams would survive at Combe without distribution through at least some retail stores as demand would fall of significantly.

Your VDH situation is the same as that in my area. The higher price Luxury (typically $3.99 to $4.99 per 3.5 oz. puck around here) has displaced the roughly $2 Deluxe on the store shelf likely per the reasons in my original post. We can also get Deluxe online for $2.29 and often on sale for under $2. Interesting that my local grocer sells a full 11oz can of Gillette foamy for a regular price of $1.99 and occasionally has it on sale for 99 cents making it competitive with even Williams shave soap. This is why I suspect the price halo effect is important to them.

And yet, Noxzema, my go to can o' foam for decades, that I didn't abandon until I switched to hard soap and brushes, is disappearing if not altogether gone, while Williams Mug lingers on. Everything you say is right of course, but my guess is, some cheap shave soap or other will continue on longer than either of us, including in the US.

 

[Hawkeye_90]

I have now been using williams for 6 months, and have found it to be just as good as the premium cold water soap factory I was using before. It produces a great lather, but it is easy to use too much water. I think this will be my go to soap from now on because again its only 99 cents a puck. One thing though, I use a shave scuttle and I think that is one of the big reasons why I am able to get such a nice lather. The hot water making the soap warm is really nice.

 

[Brutus]

I mostly ignore Williams threads, as I believe that everything that can be said about this product has already been said numerous times before.

But today it stuck me that it essentially burns down to two opposing general views on this product:
a) Williams is a below average shaving soap
b) I can shave with Williams without problems

My own position is (a + b) Williams is a below average shaving soap although I can shave with it without problems.

But as there are so many alternatives (even in the economy price range) that perform better, I see no need to use this product.
And if you are willing to spend extra change corresponding to the price of two Lattes for 6-7 weeks improved shaving, there are plenty of shaving soaps and creams out there that perform much better.

It would not surprise me if someone were to say that this product is more than good enough for him, but to me this is just like someone telling me the same thing in a liquor store about the cheapest booze.
In other words: to each his own.





Nuff said…


B.

 

[BudgetShaverGuy]

I have used Williams Mug Soap since 1974 without interruption, and have noticed no change in the soap during that time. I have vintage Williams from the 1930s though the 80s. Essentially the same soap.

I recently bought a new puck of this soap just to see how it lathers. I loaded it just like DR Harris soaps: soppy-wet synthetic brush, unbloomed bone-dry puck, 20 second load. Paint to perfection. No problems. I have hard water too.

 

[jmd]

[T]wo opposing general views on this product:
a) Williams is a below average shaving soap
b) I can shave with Williams without problems

My own position is (a + b) Williams is a below average shaving soap although I can shave with it without problems.

I contest "a)" in a way that entails/obviates "b)."

Williams is average or better along most [edited] performance metrics, thus better than average.

That Williams defeats more brilliant, thoughtful, careful, talented, and discerning would-be latherers is gravy.

 

[snowman]

When presented with the option of a Big Mac meal at McDonalds or a Prime Rib with steak fries and a Guiness at the local pub, well, I know where I’m going for dinner.

 

[lancre]

When presented with the option of a Big Mac meal at McDonalds or a Prime Rib with steak fries and a Guiness at the local pub, well, I know where I’m going for dinner.

Depends on how much I have in my wallet.

 

[snowman]

Depends on how much I have in my wallet.

Why does my choice for dinner depend on the thickness of your wallet?

 

[lancre]

Why does my choice for dinner depend on the thickness of your wallet?

Touche.

 

[snowman]

Touche.

I was hoping you were offering to pay for dinner.

 

[lancre]

I was hoping you were offering to pay for dinner.

Unfortunately I don't live in Frostbite Falls.

 

[AnimalCatcher]

Unfortunately I don't live in Frostbite Falls.

Yeah, but he's from Moosylvania, isn't he?

 

[jmd]

When presented with the option of a Big Mac meal at McDonalds or a Prime Rib with steak fries and a Guiness at the local pub, well, I know where I’m going for dinner.

I suppose it is due to my simple tastes and cheap-skate nature that I stayed home and ate a stringy pasta with garlic and olive oil. There were grassy and citrus elements as well, but I don't want to evoke the spectacle of an Arko! scented dinner.

The Italians really should have come up with a name for "aglio e olio." It's like with the French not even having a word for "entrepreneur."

 

[snowman]

I find as I get older I'm less inclined to take the road most traveled and follow my own rather large moose like nose.

 

[awk_m4]

Where do my fellow Canadians purchase Williams? I checked the Holy Trinity: Fendrihan-TOTC-ItalianBarber and none of them carry it. I did find on Amazon.ca selling a single puck for $22.89 which I suspect is rather inflated.