Fixing sandpaper down when lapping stones

[StellaNova]

Hello Everybody,

I am going about lapping some sharpening stones using water sand paper.
I am looking for some advice on how to stick the paper down - I tried insulation tape, but it just comes off.
Perhaps it's just poor quality tape ?

Thanks!

 

[cotedupy]

I just kinda wet the whole thing and it sticks to a hard surface. Maybe that’s just me though.

If you’re doing extensive flattening then you’ll need multiple sheets, and sticking them down each time is a bit of a faff!

 

[buca3152]

Just wet the paper and place on solid surface like glass. As long as you don't have big bubble under there you should be fine. You can always spray adhesive but you will go thru that process often as the wet dry doesn't last.

 

[StellaNova]

I just kinda wet the whole thing and it sticks to a hard surface. Maybe that’s just me though.

If you’re doing extensive flattening then you’ll need multiple sheets, and sticking them down each time is a bit of a faff!

Thanks, I found that the 400 grit paper that I started out using curled up quite badly, but then I switched to a courser grit - 120 - and the paper is a bit more rigid so it stays more flat.
It must be the quality of the paper then.

 

[StellaNova]

Just wet the paper and place on solid surface like glass. As long as you don't have big bubble under there you should be fine. You can always spray adhesive but you will go thru that process often as the wet dry doesn't last.

Thanks for that, I did try a bit of the glue stick commonly used to stick paper, but it didn't help much.
I will keep at it as it is, just the paper on granite.

 

[Gamma]

I use 3M w/e paper when wet it basically sticks to the metal plate I am using it on. If you are lapping under running water it should just stay put.

 

[David]

Not all sandpaper is created equal.

 

[StellaNova]

I use 3M w/e paper when wet it basically sticks to the metal plate I am using it on. If you are lapping under running water it should just stay put.

I was just thinking that I should get the 3M sandpaper instead next time.

 

[Ravenonrock]

I use a large granite tile and full sheet of w/d, spray the tile and paper. Working so far on my synthetic stones.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Some sandpaper will sorta stick with just water. Some curls too much. I prefer to use spray adhesive but only a very light spritz. Acetone quickly removes residue from the plate. I usually do a bunch of stones or balsa strops in a batch so I seldom have to peel off a still good sheet of paper.

Lately I have been using 4-1/2" wide sticky back roll sandpaper and my plate is 6" x 18" x 1/2" acrylic for that.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017KCGHXY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The variable length is nice because I can eliminate end overrun when lapping. I have three of those 18" long plates so I can set up an assembly line. TAP Plastics is your friend.

 

[KW Driver]

and if you wet down your base under a running tap, it'll remove loose grit/whatever, then lay the paper on it, and run the tap over it as you press the paper down onto the base. it should press out any air and suction the paper down.

if my cheap paper starts curling, I can place the base on a sink bowl center divider, pinky at one end of the paper, thumb at the other, lap with the other hand under a gently running spray so that it'll keep the paper wet and lay down, while also washing away the stone swarf.

 

[StellaNova]

Thanks @Slash McCoy, some good tips there.

@KW Driver, I ended up doing finger gymnastics like that last night, although it was on the counter top only. I will have to try the running water trick one day. I never considered it with sandpaper.

 

[Empire straights]

Hello Everybody,

I am going about lapping some sharpening stones using water sand paper.
I am looking for some advice on how to stick the paper down - I tried insulation tape, but it just comes off.
Perhaps it's just poor quality tape ?

Thanks!

Flattening stones with SiC powder and water on a glass plate is so much easier for flattening stones. If you are just prepping the surface maybe look into mesh or a cheap SiC combo stone or india stone works well for this too. I would take @cotedupy advice and try wing the back and setting it on a very smooth/ flat surface so the suction and pressure holds it in place.

 

[BlueMaxx]

Hello Everybody,

I am going about lapping some sharpening stones using water sand paper.
I am looking for some advice on how to stick the paper down - I tried insulation tape, but it just comes off.
Perhaps it's just poor quality tape ?

Thanks!

In hand tool woodworking we called this method “scary sharp” and was is used on hand plane blades and chisels, usually by those first dipping their toes into hand sharpening.

However, if you were to use a jewelers loupe after using different methods you would see a tremendous difference in the edge/burr.

Sandpaper by its nature no matter how fine leaves a dirtier burr than other methods.

The best reason ever to buy the best steel possible....one may keep an edge longer but takes a lot of time to get the burr back, and the other is much easier to get the burr brought up but is so soft you lose it faster.
Always a trade off.

For the “scary Sharp” (google it and you'll get tons of videos, conflicting advice and self proclaimed gurus who will say there is only one way) but for what you are asking about, a piece of float glass with some very fine grade micro-mesh sandpaper (usually 3M) was adhered using 3m spray adhesive to the glass in strips.

The results were ok, and if you are not familiar enough with how to use stones were able to get decent enough results.

Most would eventually move onto either Japanese waterstones, DMT Diamond plates or finer oil stones.

The biggest drawback to the sandpaper abrasive is the burr itself, it would often leave a brittle edge.

I do not use straight razors, but the purpose and methods are the same...to have good steel that is neither too soft nor too hard and a nice flat back so that once a fine burr is created it can be brought back to life using a leather strop, and if needed some sort of rouge on the leather.

Going to stones (or sandpaper) can sometimes throw off the bevel and cause you to go back and reestablish a new edge....which is what your trying to avoid and stay with a strop.

No expert, just my 2 cents which is about all it’s worth.
M

 

[Slash McCoy]

In hand tool woodworking we called this method “scary sharp” and was is used on hand plane blades and chisels, usually by those first dipping their toes into hand sharpening.

However, if you were to use a jewelers loupe after using different methods you would see a tremendous difference in the edge/burr.

Sandpaper by its nature no matter how fine leaves a dirtier burr than other methods.

The best reason ever to buy the best steel possible....one may keep an edge longer but takes a lot of time to get the burr back, and the other is much easier to get the burr brought up but is so soft you lose it faster.
Always a trade off.

For the “scary Sharp” (google it and you'll get tons of videos, conflicting advice and self proclaimed gurus who will say there is only one way) but for what you are asking about, a piece of float glass with some very fine grade micro-mesh sandpaper (usually 3M) was adhered using 3m spray adhesive to the glass in strips.

The results were ok, and if you are not familiar enough with how to use stones were able to get decent enough results.

Most would eventually move onto either Japanese waterstones, DMT Diamond plates or finer oil stones.

The biggest drawback to the sandpaper abrasive is the burr itself, it would often leave a brittle edge.

I do not use straight razors, but the purpose and methods are the same...to have good steel that is neither too soft nor too hard and a nice flat back so that once a fine burr is created it can be brought back to life using a leather strop, and if needed some sort of rouge on the leather.

Going to stones (or sandpaper) can sometimes throw off the bevel and cause you to go back and reestablish a new edge....which is what your trying to avoid and stay with a strop.

No expert, just my 2 cents which is about all it’s worth.
M

FWIW float glass is not as flat as good plate glass.

There IS only one method. Ask me, if you don't believe me.

I think the OP was trying to use sandpaper to lap a stone, not to sharpen anything. However it does work nicely for setting a bevel, when you don't want to buy a stone that will only be used a few times in the owner's lifetime. I like doing that just so I don't have to lap my bevel setters. Then I usually use film and balsa from there on out.

 

[BlueMaxx]

FWIW float glass is not as flat as good plate glass.

There IS only one method. Ask me, if you don't believe me.

I think the OP was trying to use sandpaper to lap a stone, not to sharpen anything. However it does work nicely for setting a bevel, when you don't want to buy a stone that will only be used a few times in the owner's lifetime. I like doing that just so I don't have to lap my bevel setters. Then I usually use film and balsa from there on out.

I have seen guys have custom milled steel pieces machined to insane degrees of flatness, or purchase pre-made ones that weigh a ton.
I have seen guys scavenge old table saws and joiners and tear them apart to get to the bed....float glass, hardware glass, marble tops...custom made sharpening stations....spend gobbs of money on Japanese wet stones.

Obsessions are strange and strike people in many different ways, and some are just plain OCD.
They get so lost chasing the burr and loose sight their woodwork.

I went through it a bit.....then finally just suffered through the learning curve and used oil stones and strops.

I confess I did have a Tormek for other uses though, like lathe tools and carving tools, ect.

 

[Slash McCoy]

I have seen guys have custom milled steel pieces machined to insane degrees of flatness, or purchase pre-made ones that weigh a ton.
I have seen guys scavenge old table saws and joiners and tear them apart to get to the bed....float glass, hardware glass, marble tops...custom made sharpening stations....spend gobbs of money on Japanese wet stones.

Obsessions are strange and strike people in many different ways, and some are just plain OCD.
They get so lost chasing the burr and loose sight their woodwork.

I went through it a bit.....then finally just suffered through the learning curve and used oil stones and strops.

I confess I did have a Tormek for other uses though, like lathe tools and carving tools, ect.

LOL Tormek! But honestly if you don't mind the price it can be a great system for tools and knives. I have considered getting one myself.

Yes there is a strong OCD component. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

 

[BlueMaxx]

LOL Tormek! But honestly if you don't mind the price it can be a great system for tools and knives. I have considered getting one myself.

Yes there is a strong OCD component. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

1st rule of Tormek: NEVER tell anyone you have a Tormek.
2nd rule of Tormek: NEVER tell anyone you have a Tormek.

You'll have friends, strangers, family members you never knew existed all lined up with their kitchen knives and scissors and garden shears.
You name it, if it needs sharpening they aren't shy to ask a “favor”.


A local small business gal who shows up at the Farmers Market and every weekend has a huge line and wait list...she's gotten so good with it she doesn't even use the jigs....except on planer blades from what I saw watching her booth.

 

[Tomo]

I just use a dry sheet of paper laid on my granite surface plate now. I got the granite surface plate cut down to a few mm smaller than a standard sheet of WD. I also got a small chamber cut into to the edge. This helps me to keep water and slurry from getting onto the plate.

I used to wet the paper to make it stick but I got stick of it curling. The one thing I do that helps is to make sure the sandpaper is flat. I’ll rolling it up so that the edges want to curl down and then store it under a sheet of plate glass and weigh it down.

The benefits are
1. It’s easy to change sheets
2. The sandpaper doesn’t curl and stays flatter
3. One layer of error is removed between the surface plate and the hone
4. You keep your plate cleaner. If it stays dry you know that you haven’t contaminated the surface with slurry or abrasive.

You do have to hold the paper still with one hand though most of the time.

 

[Empire straights]

I have seen guys have custom milled steel pieces machined to insane degrees of flatness, or purchase pre-made ones that weigh a ton.
I have seen guys scavenge old table saws and joiners and tear them apart to get to the bed....float glass, hardware glass, marble tops...custom made sharpening stations....spend gobbs of money on Japanese wet stones.

Obsessions are strange and strike people in many different ways, and some are just plain OCD.
They get so lost chasing the burr and loose sight their woodwork.

I went through it a bit.....then finally just suffered through the learning curve and used oil stones and strops.

I confess I did have a Tormek for other uses though, like lathe tools and carving tools, ect.

Get out of my head sir. That's a place that's only supposed to belong to me!