AR sight recommend

[nortac]

I mounted both of my Shepherd LPVOs in QD mounts, one a LaRue and the other an ADM, both have been very solid and satisfactory.

A primary difference between the LaRue and the ADM, the LaRue (SPR-E) will allow the Shepherd to be placed forward enough on the receiver to just barely allow the use of my Troy rear BUIS, where as the ADM will not. But with my intended usage, it is not a problem.

 

[Hohn]

The carbine I built over Christmas has iron sights from ScalarWorks. These are incredibly high quality sights and priced like it. It was the biggest "splurge" item on the build. They are superb if you can swallow the wallet attack. Neat thing is the front sight clicks are recalibrated for a 15" sight radius so they work very well on a modern shorter rifle.

I went with irons because this is a "kenosha" kind of rifle-- something I will grab if there are people in the streets and I need to defend me and mine. The are no self defense shots over 20y in most cases. So the weight of an optic is ill advised, as often you won't even be aiming shots in that scenario.

Combat troops have to take shots at extended range because they have an *offensive* role to consider. As a civilian, I don't have that role unless I'm hunting or varminting. In which case, I use the rifle which is equipped for that role: heavy barrel 18" 3-15x Vortex PST2. This rifle has placed 20/20 shots inside 12" from 600y. Not bad for a production AR with handloads.

A LPVO optic is really popular because its' the jack-of-all-trades. But I'd suggest to you that trying to cover every role makes you end up with something that's not especially good at anything. I'd rather have a specialty setup. My light AR is 0-50 with high confidence as even with my worsening eyes I can definitely make my hits at 50y with it offhand. And my heavy AR is 50-600 with pretty good confidence also if I can shoot supported for the longer stuff. Either one is far better in its selected domain than any single rifle could be covering all that. The light one has superior FOV and awareness because it has irons with very little view obstructed and good peripheral vision. The heavy one has a 15x top end on the optic and can aim small to considerable distance while the 3x bottom has a very impressively wide FOV as well.

Both are stone-axe reliable with well tuned recoil systems.

 

[NewYorkBuck]

When Eurooptic was clearing out the last of their Zeiss Conquest 1-4x I picked one up relatively cheap.

Been great on top of my AR thus far.

 

[OkieStubble]

The carbine I built over Christmas has iron sights from ScalarWorks. These are incredibly high quality sights and priced like it. It was the biggest "splurge" item on the build. They are superb if you can swallow the wallet attack. Neat thing is the front sight clicks are recalibrated for a 15" sight radius so they work very well on a modern shorter rifle.

I went with irons because this is a "kenosha" kind of rifle-- something I will grab if there are people in the streets and I need to defend me and mine. The are no self defense shots over 20y in most cases. So the weight of an optic is ill advised, as often you won't even be aiming shots in that scenario.

Combat troops have to take shots at extended range because they have an *offensive* role to consider. As a civilian, I don't have that role unless I'm hunting or varminting. In which case, I use the rifle which is equipped for that role: heavy barrel 18" 3-15x Vortex PST2. This rifle has placed 20/20 shots inside 12" from 600y. Not bad for a production AR with handloads.

A LPVO optic is really popular because its' the jack-of-all-trades. But I'd suggest to you that trying to cover every role makes you end up with something that's not especially good at anything. I'd rather have a specialty setup. My light AR is 0-50 with high confidence as even with my worsening eyes I can definitely make my hits at 50y with it offhand. And my heavy AR is 50-600 with pretty good confidence also if I can shoot supported for the longer stuff. Either one is far better in its selected domain than any single rifle could be covering all that. The light one has superior FOV and awareness because it has irons with very little view obstructed and good peripheral vision. The heavy one has a 15x top end on the optic and can aim small to considerable distance while the 3x bottom has a very impressively wide FOV as well.

Both are stone-axe reliable with well tuned recoil systems.

Great post. I enjoyed reading it.You sound very knowledgeable and all your points are very reasonable and make a lot of sense.

In a Kenosha type incident, I can see exactly your points of needing a short barreled rifle with open sights for close up engagements.

However, in Kenosha, there was:

1. Two different type opposing groups coming out and voluntarily engaging each other. Voluntarily. I would never find myself in that situation. Purposely at least.

2. There was still active Rule of Law in place.

In that situation as you suggested, I can see the exact need/use of the very type of set up you described. And I agree that trying to have a ‘do it all’ set up will bring about a rifle that isn’t good at doing anything specific, like long range or CQB, particularly well.

However, personally at least, this is where I have found myself as of late. I am looking to build that one, do it all set up. Probably not for a Kenosha incident because I am old and smart and wouldn’t have been there voluntarily in the first place.

But a long term break down in social order where there is no Rule of Law? Hopefully something like this would never happen in my lifetime, but If it did, I could see where a ‘do it all’ rifle set up would be exactly what I would want.

1. I wouldn’t need or want an 800 yd shot. But 300 yds on average and the occasional 600 yd? Yes indeed.

2. I wouldn’t plan running fast CQB thru strange and unfamiliar interior structures, but would I need to collapse the stock for the fast engagements of exterior, neighborhoods and residential area’s along with the occasional interior building clearance of familiar structures? Quite possibly.

I wouldn’t be looking to swapping out rifle’s with the perfect set ups. I would be looking to ‘run what I brung’ kinda rifle, that while it may not be set up for long distance sniper shooting or set up to run an offensive CQB type assault inside a shoot house type scenario like a SEAL operator would, my goal I guess is to do the impossible.

Create a quality AR rifle set up, that is as lightweight as I can possibly get it, and while not perfect at all things, will still be pretty darn good at most.

Right now, that candidate is an LWRC M6IC DI. It is a 6 pound stock rifle with ambidextrous controls and a 16” spiraled fluted match grade heavy barrel in .556 NATO. The match grade heavy barrel will give great accuracy at range, while the extreme spiraled fluting keeps the weight to minimum while also working to keep the barrel cool.

Complete ambi controls on both sides including bolt release, will speed up operation with closer engagements. I’m trying to keep it as close to the 6 pound stock weight as I can, I looked at many high quality iron BUIS sights and decided on MagPul Pro irons. They are very lightweight due to the extra metal being skeletonized in every place possible while still being rigid all steel sights.

For a light, I have a Inforce WMLX 600 lumen tac-lite that has a very rugged lightweight polymer frame and case. My biggest challenge has been the decision on a LPVO. Have looked at many great brands available, but am holding out for that lightweight “Unicorn” I haven’t come across yet. Many great LPVO’s out there with good glass and illuminated reticles, but they are fat, heavy and expensive at 24 ounces without the mount

There are some excellent mid priced scopes out there, that have decent glass and reticles and come in at decent weights of 18 ounces without the mount. Pretty reasonable prices also.

Probably what I will end up going with if I can’t convince Leupold to personally make me a 1x 6 or 8 with a decent illuminated reticle with drops and a in glass range finder around 10-12 ounces.

If I could accomplish this seemingly impossible goal? A lightweight QD mount from Scalarworks and an offset RDS Leupold Deltapoint Pro.

I feel I can accomplish this one day and keep that ‘do it all’ rifle around 7.5- 8 pounds.

 

[nikonNUT]

You should check out BCM's The Jack, Rob. Been pondering a build like it as it looks like a very nice all arounder.

BCM® Rifle Company

www.bravocompanymfg.com

 

[OkieStubble]

You should check out BCM's The Jack, Rob. Been pondering a build like it as it looks like a very nice all arounder.

BCM® Rifle Company

www.bravocompanymfg.com

I already have a Jack, but instead of BCM it’s a LWRC Jack.

The BCM Jack, has an Giessele ACG Trigger, which is a Mil-Spec trigger with rounded and smooth edges and has a boron coating.

My LWRC Jack has a Mil-Spec trigger, with the edges rounded and smooth and boron coated.

The BCM Jack rail provides a true 45 degree M-Lok to hold a lightweight Inforce tac-lite. As you can see in my pics, My rail has a true 45 degree M-Lok and is holding an Inforce lightweight Tac-Lite.

I do like that BCM barrel comp though. I might have to pick that up.

 

[nikonNUT]

I already have a Jack, but instead of BCM it’s a LWRC Jack.

View attachment 1339278
View attachment 1339284

The BCM Jack, has an Giessele ACG Trigger, which is a Mil-Spec trigger with rounded and smooth edges and has a boron coating.

My LWRC Jack has a Mil-Spec trigger, with the edges rounded and smooth and boron coated.

The BCM Jack rail provides a true 45 degree M-Lok to hold a lightweight Inforce tac-lite. As you can see in my pics, My rail has a true 45 degree M-Lok and is holding an Inforce lightweight Tac-Lite.

I do like that BCM barrel comp though. I might have to pick that up.

Very nice! As much as I want a carbine I have pushed the TriArc out to 200 yards and it will keep them on a IDPA silhouette. I think with a 10.5" upper and a good set of BUIS it would make a new maneuverable CQB that could still make a person reconsider their life choices at longer ranges! The new gee wiz go fast that I am intrigued by is the new 8.6 Blackout. A 350gr softpoint at 1050 is a LOT of ouch and there is enough case capacity to push a 300gr BTHP super sonic easy!

 

[OkieStubble]

Very nice! As much as I want a carbine I have pushed the TriArc out to 200 yards and it will keep them on a IDPA silhouette. I think with a 10.5" upper and a good set of BUIS it would make a new maneuverable CQB that could still make a person reconsider their life choices at longer ranges! The new gee wiz go fast that I am intrigued by is the new 8.6 Blackout. A 350gr softpoint at 1050 is a LOT of ouch and there is enough case capacity to push a 300gr BTHP super sonic easy!

300 gr. at over 1100 FPS? What’s not too love!

 

[jkingrph]

When I was building my AR's I went with Troy Battlesights, the front being the HK type which I seem to pick up quicker. I wanted all metal folding sights, so no problem with heat on the front sight, not that I shoot fast enough to heat it up , and to fold down for a scope or red dot use.

 

[OkieStubble]

When I was building my AR's I went with Troy Battlesights, the front being the HK type which I seem to pick up quicker. I wanted all metal folding sights, so no problem with heat on the front sight, not that I shoot fast enough to heat it up , and to fold down for a scope or red dot use.

With all of the skeletonized free floating barrel forearms without heat shields, iron BUIS are definitely the better idea to protect from heat.

 

[nortac]

I use Troy Battle sights on all of mine, also with the HK style front. Kinda works like a "circle+dot" for rapid gross center of mass line-up.

 

[OkieStubble]

I use Troy Battle sights on all of mine, also with the HK style front. Kinda works like a "circle+dot" for rapid gross center of mass line-up.

Troy Battle sights are the best steel sights on the market IMO. LWRC makes some really nice what they call, ‘Skirmish Sights.’

I went with the Mag Pro steel sights because of their incredible lightweight weight for being steel sights. At a bit over $100 each for front and back, I didn’t consider them cheap and they are quite sturdy and durable and very low profile when in the down position.

MagPul seems to put a lot of thought into the working designs of their stuff. I have a short, stubby trigger finger and was looking for an all steel magazine release extension for my AR’s.

Looked at a bunch of different companies who make finger extensions, but Magpuls design just seemed to work for me.

Same with a sling. Bunch of slings out there, Vickers and many others. I again chose MagPuls because of how thr thought that went into it’s design, absolutely works for me when using it.

 

[Hohn]

Great post. I enjoyed reading it.You sound very knowledgeable and all your points are very reasonable and make a lot of sense.

In a Kenosha type incident, I can see exactly your points of needing a short barreled rifle with open sights for close up engagements.

However, in Kenosha, there was:

1. Two different type opposing groups coming out and voluntarily engaging each other. Voluntarily. I would never find myself in that situation. Purposely at least.

2. There was still active Rule of Law in place.

In that situation as you suggested, I can see the exact need/use of the very type of set up you described. And I agree that trying to have a ‘do it all’ set up will bring about a rifle that isn’t good at doing anything specific, like long range or CQB, particularly well.

However, personally at least, this is where I have found myself as of late. I am looking to build that one, do it all set up. Probably not for a Kenosha incident because I am old and smart and wouldn’t have been there voluntarily in the first place.

But a long term break down in social order where there is no Rule of Law? Hopefully something like this would never happen in my lifetime, but If it did, I could see where a ‘do it all’ rifle set up would be exactly what I would want.

1. I wouldn’t need or want an 800 yd shot. But 300 yds on average and the occasional 600 yd? Yes indeed.

2. I wouldn’t plan running fast CQB thru strange and unfamiliar interior structures, but would I need to collapse the stock for the fast engagements of exterior, neighborhoods and residential area’s along with the occasional interior building clearance of familiar structures? Quite possibly.

I wouldn’t be looking to swapping out rifle’s with the perfect set ups. I would be looking to ‘run what I brung’ kinda rifle, that while it may not be set up for long distance sniper shooting or set up to run an offensive CQB type assault inside a shoot house type scenario like a SEAL operator would, my goal I guess is to do the impossible.

Create a quality AR rifle set up, that is as lightweight as I can possibly get it, and while not perfect at all things, will still be pretty darn good at most.

Right now, that candidate is an LWRC M6IC DI. It is a 6 pound stock rifle with ambidextrous controls and a 16” spiraled fluted match grade heavy barrel in .556 NATO. The match grade heavy barrel will give great accuracy at range, while the extreme spiraled fluting keeps the weight to minimum while also working to keep the barrel cool.

Complete ambi controls on both sides including bolt release, will speed up operation with closer engagements. I’m trying to keep it as close to the 6 pound stock weight as I can, I looked at many high quality iron BUIS sights and decided on MagPul Pro irons. They are very lightweight due to the extra metal being skeletonized in every place possible while still being rigid all steel sights.

For a light, I have a Inforce WMLX 600 lumen tac-lite that has a very rugged lightweight polymer frame and case. My biggest challenge has been the decision on a LPVO. Have looked at many great brands available, but am holding out for that lightweight “Unicorn” I haven’t come across yet. Many great LPVO’s out there with good glass and illuminated reticles, but they are fat, heavy and expensive at 24 ounces without the mount

There are some excellent mid priced scopes out there, that have decent glass and reticles and come in at decent weights of 18 ounces without the mount. Pretty reasonable prices also.

Probably what I will end up going with if I can’t convince Leupold to personally make me a 1x 6 or 8 with a decent illuminated reticle with drops and a in glass range finder around 10-12 ounces.

If I could accomplish this seemingly impossible goal? A lightweight QD mount from Scalarworks and an offset RDS Leupold Deltapoint Pro.

I feel I can accomplish this one day and keep that ‘do it all’ rifle around 7.5- 8 pounds.

Yeah, when I say "Kenosha" I'm talking specifically about personal defense in the face of a large number of people in very close proximity. I condone no actions taken by anyone that day or the days or events leading up to it. So I agree totally on the wisdom of "first, avoid conflict." And I think it's debatable that rule of law was in place, given the significant property damage that had occurred and the fact the no law enforcement was even attempting to prevent such damage, to the degree that it seemed to invite vigilantism at least in the minds of those who undertook it. Again, not justifying that decision or condoning anyone's actions. Also, I'm not talking about a long term WROL situation, as they tend to be short term situations. Riots and even autonomous zones don't persist. Also, not talking about door kicking-- again, that's offense vs defense in my mind. Anyway, back to the rifle..

LWRC makes great stuff. The model you mention is listed by LWRC as 6.6#, and of course that's naked (no mag, ammo, or sights). Certainly a great foundation for a one-gun solution. But more realistically, 8# is the bottom end of what the finished rifle will weigh. Figure closer to 9# with all accessories. A loaded 30rd PMAG alone is just under a pound, maybe more if you load 77s or such. Your candidate rifle is 7.5# before adding a single accessory.

Mission dictates gear. If you build up the LWRC as you propose, it will be around 9# loaded and ready to use (especially with a LPVO), but it will indeed be a one-rifle solution. Just not especially lightweight.

For a purely "defensive" carbine, I decided I didn't need any magnification, and I think that's generally valid for that assumption. An optic would therefore generally be a RDS if an optic was added. The RDS turns a 50y carbine into a 150-200y carbine depending on someone's eyesight and skill.

If I had to flee and could only take one AR with me, it would be the light one and not the heavy one. The longer the range, the less important is the need to cover that range. The heavy one adds capability I really don't need and weight I*definitely* don't want. The farther I get from my days in uniform, the weaker I get, the more a lighter option appeals to me and I start to think I'm only taking short range shots and only if unavoidable. Shoot and scoot. It's not worth it to me to carry another pound or three for another 200-300y of range I will need rarely if ever.

The idea I had was "minimum sufficient AR" if it helps to think of that. That means I gave up range and a lot of nice to haves, but I think it's a very workable compromise overall.

 

[Hohn]

With all of the skeletonized free floating barrel forearms without heat shields, iron BUIS are definitely the better idea to protect from heat.

My front sight is handguard mounted and so the heat transmission to the sight is negligible, but it's also a thin profile barrel with a good bit of clearance around the guard and the guard itself has a lot of ventilation.

 

[OkieStubble]

My front sight is handguard mounted and so the heat transmission to the sight is negligible, but it's also a thin profile barrel with a good bit of clearance around the guard and the guard itself has a lot of ventilation.

Nice looking rifle. DDM4?

 

[OkieStubble]

Yeah, when I say "Kenosha" I'm talking specifically about personal defense in the face of a large number of people in very close proximity. I condone no actions taken by anyone that day or the days or events leading up to it. So I agree totally on the wisdom of "first, avoid conflict." And I think it's debatable that rule of law was in place, given the significant property damage that had occurred and the fact the no law enforcement was even attempting to prevent such damage, to the degree that it seemed to invite vigilantism at least in the minds of those who undertook it. Again, not justifying that decision or condoning anyone's actions. Also, I'm not talking about a long term WROL situation, as they tend to be short term situations. Riots and even autonomous zones don't persist. Also, not talking about door kicking-- again, that's offense vs defense in my mind. Anyway, back to the rifle..

I think kenosha was simply an "event" or "situation" or incident." A societal turn where long term WROL would be an everyday societal norm, while I wouldn't expect there to be large crowds in close proximity like a Kenosha, if there was, I wouldn't be anywhere near that either. And while a redot would be useful in that kind of scenario and many other type senario's up to 200 yards, maybe even more for the young guys with 20/15 vision.

Us old guys, need a little help with ocularity clarity at distance. and, in a long term societal WROL, there will be others with rifles also. this means, with my old eyes, I want the option of an offset red dot and the option of using an LVPO, to be able to clearly identify possible threats at distance, and then be able to use what the benefit of what that LPVO will give me.

which is, the benefit of distance + time, which equals reaction time. I can then use that time & distance, to decide, if I want to react by engaging or react by re-routing, detouring, re-treating and/or just running the hell away like a scalded cat.

LWRC makes great stuff. The model you mention is listed by LWRC as 6.6#, and of course that's naked (no mag, ammo, or sights). Certainly a great foundation for a one-gun solution. But more realistically, 8# is the bottom end of what the finished rifle will weigh. Figure closer to 9# with all accessories. A loaded 30rd PMAG alone is just under a pound, maybe more if you load 77s or such. Your candidate rifle is 7.5# before adding a single accessory.

Mission dictates gear. If you build up the LWRC as you propose, it will be around 9# loaded and ready to use (especially with a LPVO), but it will indeed be a one-rifle solution. Just not especially lightweight.

For a purely "defensive" carbine, I decided I didn't need any magnification, and I think that's generally valid for that assumption. An optic would therefore generally be a RDS if an optic was added. The RDS turns a 50y carbine into a 150-200y carbine depending on someone's eyesight and skill.

If I had to flee and could only take one AR with me, it would be the light one and not the heavy one. The longer the range, the less important is the need to cover that range. The heavy one adds capability I really don't need and weight I*definitely* don't want. The farther I get from my days in uniform, the weaker I get, the more a lighter option appeals to me and I start to think I'm only taking short range shots and only if unavoidable. Shoot and scoot. It's not worth it to me to carry another pound or three for another 200-300y of range I will need rarely if ever.

The idea I had was "minimum sufficient AR" if it helps to think of that. That means I gave up range and a lot of nice to haves, but I think it's a very workable compromise overall.

[/QUOTE]

6.6 pound rifle + 3.4 ounces Inforce Tac-Lite + 2.6 ounces of lightweight steel BUIS, + 5 ounces of Scalarworks lighweight QD mount + 12-14 ounce LPVO Leupold hasn't made yet. + 2.4 ounce Leupold deltapoint pro with offset mount equals to around 7 pounds 13 ounces depending on how the crow flies.

I understand your point if I hadn't already stated in a much earlier post, I am not looking for the typical LPVO that comes in at a whopping 1 1/2 pounds along with a 1/2 pound mount. I don't count mags or ammo as weight with the rifle. because ammo weight, comes and goes, depending on what you are doing and how much you are doing it.

In other words, if I am doing nothing with my lightweight rifle by trying to survive? Then i'm perfectly ok, with lugging a bunch of heavy ammo and mags around. If I am having to use rifle and said ammo to survive? Then it all automatically gets lighter, as I survive...

 

[nikonNUT]

Remember Rob… You can never have to much ammo unless you are swimming or on fire!

 

[Hohn]

Nice looking rifle. DDM4?

The lower is from my V11pro. Since the photo, I've built a dedicated lower for the "lightweight" upper. The V11 pro is not a light rifle-- pretty close to Mk12 specs with a heavy 18" bbl. With the PST2 3-15 and bipod, mine is 10-11#.

 

[OkieStubble]

Remember Rob… You can never have to much ammo unless you are swimming or on fire!

On the rare occasion, discussions such as this are informative and necessary. But at the same time, I can’t help but feel like climbing into a hole, closing my eyes and never coming out, just simply because of having to consider the psychological and emotional possibilities of those types of realities.

 

[OkieStubble]

Strike Industries developing interesting new kit...