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Why are (or what makes) vintage SR's better to shave with?

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
Many SR shavers on B&B extoll the virtues of shaving with a vintage SR. Ignoring the feel-good of shaving with an old SR, from a purely physical aspect, my question is why?

With the technology currently available, we should be able to match or better the quality of steel and heat treatment from 100 years ago. We also have the technology to exactly match the shape, including bevel and edge, of vintage SR's.

Is it because with vintage SR's, most of the not-so-good ones have been weeded out over the decades past?
 
I certainly don't have the answer(s) but it occurs to me that there were exponentially more razors being made in 1920 than 2020. Many more skilled workers, with the attendant institutional knowledge. Much more competition. Perhaps that drove better quality control.

Not that all vintage razors were perfect. There are some real dogs out there. But generally speaking, a razor with clear signs of use, moderate honewear, etc. usually has the kinks worked out already. Especially one that somebody took the time to carve his initials into the scales. He liked that razor and usually there's a reason.
 
To me value is a key. It is not hard to find a nice vintage under $50 that is in decent shape, hones up quickly and gives a top class shave. Particular the ones that are < 100 years old. And that’s being conservative - I just received a beautiful American vintage today that I won on the well-known auction site for under $15. I’ll put that down to luck. You can buy a new razor for < $50, but my impression is that it is hard to get a high quality (i.e. you can be confident that there won’t be anything wrong with it and it will give superior performance with nothing more than a quick honing) razor for under $100, maybe for < $150.

I’m not sure that the technology has really advanced that much. First, because frankly straight razors are pretty damn simple from a technology standpoint. It’s hard for me to think of many objects in my house that have fewer parts. Second, the market TAM collapsed during the first half of the 20th century. So its not like IBM or General Electric or Toyota is throwing their top people and tons of cash into the idea of making a better straight razor. I’m not trying to belittle the efforts of artisans, but in an age of computer-controlled CNC and 3D printing, if there was a market for a billion straight razors a year, I’m pretty confident that people would be figuring out how to make a better straight. Sure there are some exotic metals out there, but does a razor really benefit from using the latest steel alloy at HRC = 70? A lot of people seem quite happy with what they can get from the softer steels of Sheffield or Little Valley.

For the record I have over 50 straights, only 2 of them bought new. So you know where my bias lies. :)
 
Especially one that somebody took the time to carve his initials into the scales. He liked that razor and usually there's a reason.
This makes great sense. When I get a vintage piece that has been taken care of and used extensively, more than often it is an exceptional shave. The razor has survived, in some cases, over a hundred years precisely because of its inherent quality.
 
I've had many 'current' straight razors that were as good as any 'vintage' examples. I've had several vintage razors that were - not bad but not wonderful, and a few duds. Every blade is a lil different, I take 'em one at a time, and gauge each on its own merits.
 
Maybe competition. Seems like it was fiery for a while there. And maybe some remarkable sources of iron ore that don't produce like they used to. Looking at you, Sweden. And, in a different realm, Griswold.
 
There’s something special about that old Swedish steel. I’m not educated enough about metallurgy to know what it is but it seems to take an edge like nothing else. It does seem strange that it can’t be replicated now. Surely the elements in the alloy are still available in modern times.

My modern RA and TI razors shave great but I still give the nod to the Heljestrands and Swedish steel Iwasaki.
 
Style and class…quality of the metal…quality of the shave!

The bad ones didn’t stand the test of time?

Unconscious bias that says “This is an amazing tool that has stood the test of time…it must be an amazing shaver!”

Scargill circa 1817 (Sheffield):
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Douris circa 1874 (near Thiers):

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steveclarkus

Goose Poop Connoisseur
I only have one brand new out of the package razor but it is a 5/8 Boker which is too heavy for my liking - I prefer smaller lighter blades. I use a lot of arcing and rolling the blade around motions and weight interferes with my shaving style. I suppose I could order a new razor from a custom shop that would suit me just fine if necessary though. I can’t think of any reason a new razor from a good maker wouldn’t be as good as a vintage except that it would cost a hell of a lot more.
 

Legion

Staff member
There’s something special about that old Swedish steel. I’m not educated enough about metallurgy to know what it is but it seems to take an edge like nothing else. It does seem strange that it can’t be replicated now. Surely the elements in the alloy are still available in modern times.

My modern RA and TI razors shave great but I still give the nod to the Heljestrands and Swedish steel Iwasaki.
Im not sure it is the steel (it might be), but their heat treat is definitely different.
 
As a few others have said, the competition in the SR market was more fierce in the 19th and early 20th century when straights were the only razor available. This tended to raise the quality of the razors if the business wanted to compete and survive.

Also, any sub par razor would have been weeded out over the years.

There are some modern producers who produce exceptional razors, but SR users and collectors is a very niche market. Also there are a lot of RSOs being produced presently. If one doesn't know what to look for, it is easy to be taken in by their marketing.

If a new SR user were to compare a vintage SR with a RSO, there is no doubt which one would be preferred and inherent bias introduced.
 

Steve56

Ask me about shaving naked!
That begs the question of what is ‘vintage’? 1960s aren’t really very old in the timeline of SR, and many Japanese razors and Filarmonicas are of that vintage. Vintage = not made anymore? Many recent makers have ceased production.

As far as shaving performance goes and price notwithstanding, nothing really. A modern Thiers Issard C135 razor will shave as well as any vintage. There are too many mentions of problems with current Solingen razors for them to be a consideration in my mind. Thiers Issard certainly has had some issues over time, but I’ve never had one that did not hone normally and shave exceptionally well, though my experience with the modern ones is not large.

A lot of vintage razors have a lot of problems, warped, ordinary steel (which is not bad), less than perfect grinds *eh hem* and so on. Other than collectability, there are three reasons to choose a vintage over a modern razor, 1) Some of them have a style and beauty all their own representative of the period that they were made in, 2) some of them were indeed very good in all aspects, some of the vintage Swedish, Spanish, and Japanese razors were indeed as good as anything made today by anyone, and 3) Some vintage razors can be had very cheaply and that’s a big deal.

There are also many current custom makers that are turning out everything from reasonably priced users to art razors. Our own @bluesman 7 , Max Sprecher, Tim Zowada, Bruno Blades, Ertan Süer (using TI/Grelot and Solingen blanks), Koraat, Portland, RigaRazor, and many more.
 
It depends on what you are looking for in a razor.

If you don't care too much about looks, a good user-grade vintage offers very good value for money compared to modern razors. I can find a perfectly good 6/8ths vintage razor any day for less than £50. Solingen razors of good quality are plentiful.

If you want the same razor in mint NOS condition, expect to pay three times as much, which will then bring it in line with modern new razors. Then it becomes a matter of taste, collectability and exclusivity. Mint NOS vintage razors are not plentiful, mostly made from high carbon steel, we all know that you have to actively protect it, and care for it, to keep it from oxidising. The ones that lay forgotten on a shelf for a few decades will not be in mint condition, even if it is NOS.

Which ones are better? I don't think one is better than the other. For the price of a budget modern razor from a popular brand, I can probably do better going vintage with a bit of patina, but saying that, a mint NOS Fili14 will probably be more expensive than a Koraat 14.2, just because it's a Fili.
 
In my opinion the best of the current production is just as good as the best of the vintage razors. The difference being that a really good modern straight razor most often has a hefty price tag. You can get several old E.A. Berg razors for the price of one Wacker. Then again not many vintage razors are as good as a Koraat.
 

Steve56

Ask me about shaving naked!
Well, you can get a Thiers Issard Basic Black at very nice price. The blade is unadorned by gold and the spine is not guilloche or forged with a pattern, but the steel is C135. That said, the scales are not nice. But you can buy a Basic Black, have Alfredo re-scale it, and have something that‘s comparable in looks and performance to a nice Swedish razor.
 
The biggest challenge with new razors is the lack of selection. For example, I do not know of any new near wedges that do not require a custom order. Are new razors good? Absolutely, my TI Basic Black 7/8 with thumb notch shaves as well as any of my vintage full hollows. And if you are patient, you can't beat the price of vintage razors, especially if you are willing to learn to sand/steel wool blades and set bevels.
 
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