The JNats you don't know what to do with

[Yaron]

Is this Koma nagura good to buy? I want to use it with my Ozuku Asagi.
The vendor says: “ Mikawa Shiro Nagura Koma from Aichi, tested quality, supplied directly from the producer”

 

[Empire straights]

Is this Koma nagura good to buy? I want to use it with my Ozuku Asagi.
The vendor says: “ Mikawa Shiro Nagura Koma from Aichi, tested quality, supplied directly from the producer”
View attachment 1323857

Pretty rock! I'm so scared of the jnat hole. I've got a mountain of arks, but I've used them my whole life. I think I got as many coticules as arks and random things like a lyn idwal or la lunes from mystery hone fun but jnats go for a premium and sound as hit or miss as coticules if not worse! I bought a mystery stone and I think it might be a jnat but I've got no clue, part of the fun is trying it without any influence, just purely your opinion of the the stone... it's good stuff.

Usually if the stone sucks I'll search out the people of the forum but I only ask about identification after the purchase. It makes it like a scratch off but without the gambling because the stone will be useful for something at least! Lots of research about these stones ahead of time and buying from trusted sources(so I hear) helps with jnats. Here is the mystery stone I just bought I bet it's going to be fun! The chipping looks like chert(arkansas stones, flint) but I don't know, never seen an ark like that. The saw marks and little bubbles on the stone kinda reminded me of a jnat, but I know nothing about them!

 

[LJS]

Is this Koma nagura good to buy?

It looks like a koma, but they are natural stones and have variation. Some folks who have had many say some are good and some are not so good. Good luck!

 

[Steve56]

Very grateful to you all! With trepidation here’s some pics- I know it looks awfully worn but in my defence my Aust looks nothing like this and I’ve honed that too. I use Lynn Abrams circle technique and Slash’s pasted balsa. I’ve tried rolling x ‘s and burr method too with the TI. When I use the sharpie, I’m clearing all the ink in a few strokes.View attachment 1322710View attachment 1322711View attachment 1322712View attachment 1322713View attachment 1322714View attachment 1322715View attachment 1322716

Is this Koma nagura good to buy? I want to use it with my Ozuku Asagi.
The vendor says: “ Mikawa Shiro Nagura Koma from Aichi, tested quality, supplied directly from the producer”
View attachment 1323857

Looks decent, it should be priced at 50 cents/g US or less to be a good buy.

I have a lot of koma. Most of the Asano stamped stones (as this one is) are hard, and you’ll need a hard hone to use them. Alex Gilmore had a softer modern one given to him by Sakimoto San (Asano) during their visit in Japan.

All of the koma that I have is very fast, grit rich, whether vintage or modern, hard or soft. Modern tends to be harder and finer, vintage tends to be softer and coarser.

A good option is mejiro, Sakimoto San says that it’s finer than koma, but slower and not as rare. A good piece of mejiro will certainly get you to the same place.

 

[Yaron]

Looks decent, it should be priced at 50 cents/g US or less to be a good buy.

I have a lot of koma. Most of the Asano stamped stones (as this one is) are hard, and you’ll need a hard hone to use them. Alex Gilmore had a softer modern one given to him by Sakimoto San (Asano) during their visit in Japan.

All of the koma that I have is very fast, grit rich, whether vintage or modern, hard or soft. Modern tends to be harder and finer, vintage tends to be softer and coarser.

A good option is mejiro, Sakimoto San says that it’s finer than koma, but slower and not as rare. A good piece of mejiro will certainly get you to the same place.

Hi Steve,
Thanks for reply. I ordered it already from a german eshop. Cost 85€ + shipping, bit pricey, but what can i do if i want to jave fun. Want to play with it and learn more and more about honing on JNAT”s.
I will use it with my Ozuku Asagi LV5+, i alredy have Asano naguras botan and mejiro, want to play with this Koma and will serch for Tomo nagura to comlete this setup. Maybe it will be fine only to make slurry with Atoma 400 or 1200

 

[Yaron]

It looks like a koma, but they are natural stones and have variation. Some folks who have had many say some are good and some are not so good. Good luck!

Thanks

 

[steveclarkus]

That’s the problem with most Japanese mid grit stones, they just aren’t very fast. It’s difficult to justify honing 2-3x longer than using a synth when you end up on a JNat finisher anyway.

The JNat stones that i use as ‘tweeners’ - between bevel set and finish - tend to be super fast tomae layer or a deeper layer, or a suita. Some of these tweeners can also finish very well too. Once you use one of these, it’s just darned hard to pick up an aoto or tsushima.

I used to feel that Mikawa weren’t really worth using either, just too slow, though they are a lot of fun to use. Over the years, I’ve acquired a small number of them that are so rich in grit that they can be used in place of mid grit stones. Many of these were bought in lots with other stones and are unmarked. None of them have Asano stamps.

Fascinating

 

[lightfoot]

Could you help me please? What nagura are those? Which is finer, the name of those naguras. Thank you.View attachment 1319712View attachment 1319713View attachment 1319714View attachment 1319715

The top two photos appear to be the same Majiro. The 2nd stone is Botan. The 3rd is Tenjyuo.
Botan - coarse
Tenjyuo - lower mid
Majiro - upper mid
Koma - pre finish

 

[JPO]

Looks decent, it should be priced at 50 cents/g US or less to be a good buy.

I have a lot of koma. Most of the Asano stamped stones (as this one is) are hard, and you’ll need a hard hone to use them. Alex Gilmore had a softer modern one given to him by Sakimoto San (Asano) during their visit in Japan.

All of the koma that I have is very fast, grit rich, whether vintage or modern, hard or soft. Modern tends to be harder and finer, vintage tends to be softer and coarser.

A good option is mejiro, Sakimoto San says that it’s finer than koma, but slower and not as rare. A good piece of mejiro will certainly get you to the same place.

I am missing a koma, but i have a hard mejiro. Kan i mix a tomo slurry with mejiro and skip buying a koma? I was thinking that if i first create a little mejiro slurry, by rubbing a hard tomo it would breake it down a little.

 

[Steve56]

Sure. Sakimoto san says that mejiro is finer than koma, just a little slower. I frequently use mejiro and skip the koma.

Here’s a link to his offerings on yahoo japan via Buyee

https://buyee.jp/item/search/seller/togiten

 

[SparkyLB]

Hate to necropost, but this thread is excellent! After setting the bevel with a 1K Naniwa SS; a progression with Botan, Tenyjou, Mejiero, Koma and Tomo, yields a decent edge. I have yet to "pass" a HHT unless I do it in a "ripping"motion, which works every time yielding that satisfying plink sound.

I'm at a loss for "where to go from here?" Is it technique? Do I need to experiment more? I have an unstamped Botan, and two unstamped Tomos, from my mentor, of whose provenance I have no doubt. My base stone is marked "Wakasa" L-5. It is very hard (well, it is to me--first stone and all! LOL)

Not to bring religion or politics into this, but they say the closer you get to God the less you find you know.

It seems the closer I get to working my technique, the further away I am from "that edge." I was told, trained, encouraged--to keep learning. That I will. I just don't know where to go from here.

BTW, a person in this thread told me to look at the edge from the apex. I've learned how to do this. As suggested, it took strong light, and no more than a 10X loupe. My apex looks like the edge of a business card. It's uniformity is nearly perfect in thickness from heel to toe, and I can discern no imperfections. From the side, it looks even better. I strop it like it owes me money--yet no HHT. I hope my mentor isn't reading this. I find I seek this mystical HHT. While I realize the shave is all the evidence I need, and I always get a DFS--it's clear to me that passing a HHT means my edge is sharper than one that doesn't.

 

[Steve56]

You probably just need more practice, lighter pressure (flexing the edge seems to kill HHT), making sure that you’re hitting all the bevel, and possibly clear water finishing strokes.

 

[SparkyLB]

Thank you, @Steve56, I'm on it.

 

[Steve56]

YW Larry, be glad to give you an edge if you want.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

Keep in mind hairs are not created equal and how they've been treated will make a difference too. I use strays from my head (there is a large supply and they're long) but some of them will skate across even the keenest edges, including one of Alfredo's. Especially if they're well conditioned.

 

[SparkyLB]

Keep in mind hairs are not created equal and how they've been treated will make a difference too. I use strays from my head (there is a large supply and they're long) but some of them will skate across even the keenest edges, including one of Alfredo's. Especially if they're well conditioned.

Yes! I've noticed my wife's very fine, long hairs are very reluctant to pass an HHS. My hairs are short and harder than chess. If I plucked one, I'd imagine it would work. I have not, though. Thanks, @Darth Scandalous !

 

[SparkyLB]

YW Larry, be glad to give you an edge if you want.

Thanks, Steve. When I achieve the best edge to date, I'll take you up on that for comparison purposes, just to see if I'm getting somewhere.

 

[JPO]

Hate to necropost, but this thread is excellent! After setting the bevel with a 1K Naniwa SS; a progression with Botan, Tenyjou, Mejiero, Koma and Tomo, yields a decent edge. I have yet to "pass" a HHT unless I do it in a "ripping"motion, which works every time yielding that satisfying plink sound.

I'm at a loss for "where to go from here?" Is it technique? Do I need to experiment more? I have an unstamped Botan, and two unstamped Tomos, from my mentor, of whose provenance I have no doubt. My base stone is marked "Wakasa" L-5. It is very hard (well, it is to me--first stone and all! LOL)

Not to bring religion or politics into this, but they say the closer you get to God the less you find you know.

It seems the closer I get to working my technique, the further away I am from "that edge." I was told, trained, encouraged--to keep learning. That I will. I just don't know where to go from here.

BTW, a person in this thread told me to look at the edge from the apex. I've learned how to do this. As suggested, it took strong light, and no more than a 10X loupe. My apex looks like the edge of a business card. It's uniformity is nearly perfect in thickness from heel to toe, and I can discern no imperfections. From the side, it looks even better. I strop it like it owes me money--yet no HHT. I hope my mentor isn't reading this. I find I seek this mystical HHT. While I realize the shave is all the evidence I need, and I always get a DFS--it's clear to me that passing a HHT means my edge is sharper than one that doesn't.

If you have a finer synthetic stone ( 3-5k) the transition is probably easier. Try eliminating some variables. My Mejiero is for instance finer then my koma, but slower. You also need to work the slurry until you feel that gritty sensation changes. You might be better off eliminating some of the naguras until you learn how each stone works with your base stone.
My Mejiero work good with my super hard Shobudani, but is not a good match with one of my softer Nakayama.
A freshly lapped stone may also increase the cutting efficiency enitially.

 

[SparkyLB]

Thank you, @JPO. I don't have a finer synth than 1K. But I suppose I could get a 5K if it would improve things. I'm more about the finished product than about less time. If I can achieve with a 1K and Mejiero what I can with a 5K and Koma, I'm happy to use the Koma for longer if necessary. Really, the last thing I want to do is spend more money.

I know next to nothing, but my gut tells me that @Steve56 has a point when he says LIGHT strokes, practice, and in a different thread, he mentioned pressure control. I have a feeling these are the things impeding me from making a true factory edge (if there is such a thing.) I need to find a LIGHT STROKE. I'm putting too much pressure on it, I know I am.

Please, all--keep the advice coming.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

Thank you, @JPO. I don't have a finer synth than 1K. But I suppose I could get a 5K if it would improve things. I'm more about the finished product than about less time. If I can achieve with a 1K and Mejiero what I can with a 5K and Koma, I'm happy to use the Koma for longer if necessary. Really, the last thing I want to do is spend more money.

I know next to nothing, but my gut tells me that @Steve56 has a point when he says LIGHT strokes, practice, and in a different thread, he mentioned pressure control. I have a feeling these are the things impeding me from making a true factory edge (if there is such a thing.) I need to find a LIGHT STROKE. I'm putting too much pressure on it, I know I am.

Please, all--keep the advice coming.

Short finishing strokes have a way of magically lightening the pressure.