The JNats you don't know what to do with

[Herrenberg]

Some say that there are no bad JNats, only owners who have not figured out what they are good for. That's probably not true, but what is true is that those of us who have been accumulating JNats for a while probably have a few stones that we have not quite figured out what to do with. Some of them might be not so great, sure, but some of them are probably great, and we just haven't figured out where they fit.

What are your stones, your Island Of Misfit Toy stones, that are just waiting to find their purpose?

Here are some of mine.

This beautiful stone is a Habutae. Apparently they are treasured by woodworkers. I have had great luck with other stones aimed at woodworkers, but excellent for razors, like the Naniwa Hibiki series. So I think this has a role in my life, if only I can find it.

This next one is an anachronism. 30 years ago, I was into woodworking, sort of. I mostly enjoyed sharpening chisels and plane blades more than I enjoyed the actual woodworking, so I gave it up. But during those years, I bought a JNat from a woodworking source. I remember they were very so-so about the whole thing. The sales pitch was sort of "I guess this might be good, some people seem to like it." And yet when I look at it now, I see the now-treasured yellow color, and I wonder if it might be great, if only I would spend the time to understand it.

It has a label at the end that amuses me. Common in those days, not so much now.

So, what have you got? Show your neglected/insufficiently understood JNats!

 

[Steve56]

There are all sorts of JNats that aren’t the best razor finishers, but many stones are equally useful though at other jobs.

Your first stone is a deep layer suita it seems, and very few of those are razor finishers except perhaps the occasional sunashi suita. However, they’re great for finishing a kitchen knife, especially for vegetables as the edge from a suita usually has a little ‘tooth’ to it.

The second stone could be anything, but if it isn’t a razor finisher, try it on kitchen knives (or tools as it was originally sold for). Some stones are also excellent at polishing metal or making a great looking bi-metal finish, the jigane/higane interface. I recently got a couple that are not good razor finishers but are not just good, but excellent for this purpose, as good as the best uchigumori that I have. So those aren’t going anywhere.

Attached is an image of a Takeda with the bevel finished with one of these stones. The really good ones will make the thinnest part of the jigane where it meets the higane darker, so the jigane ‘mountains’ have a little darker line at the interface which makes a difference in appearance. A good stone for this purpose will not streak the jigane, it makes a uniform finish.

There are Japanese stones of course, that don’t do anything particularly well, and this is why the really good ones are expensive, you have to try them to find out which are good and ‘bad’. These stones are typically harder than knife and tool people like and not fine enough for razors, and/or they aren’t good metal finishing stones, or just don’t have much grit in them. It’s why I don’t recommend the JNat ‘rabbit hole’ unless you‘re making JNats part of the hobby.

 

[Herrenberg]

There are all sorts of JNats that aren’t the best razor finishers, but many stones are equally useful though at other jobs.

Your first stone is a deep layer suita it seems, and very few of those are razor finishers except perhaps the occasional sunashi suita. However, they’re great for finishing a kitchen knife, especially for vegetables as the edge from a suita usually has a little ‘tooth’ to it.

Thanks for the information about my stone. I guess I had an assumption in my post that I did not quite explain: I know these are not razor finishers, but I enjoy JNats enough that I like using them in my sequence as much as possible. So the virtues I'm interested in include things like "this is so fast and fine that it can easily bridge the gap from an SG1000 to the finishing stone," or "this makes a really smooth edge, useful to have in the sequence," or "this stone is really fun to use if you get the slurry right." Heck, I've even rebeveled on a Natsuya. Not fast, but fun.

 

[Steve56]

That makes a lot of sense, I‘ve done the same thing, bevel set synth, a fast tomae or suita, then the finisher.

 

[JPO]

This is my Tsushima Black Nagura, which i have not found a good place for.
It is fun to use, but i struggle to find a way this comes to the best use.

 

[Steve56]

This is my Tsushima Black Nagura, which i have not found a good place for.
It is fun to use, but i struggle to find a way this comes to the best use.

View attachment 1307350

That’s the problem with most Japanese mid grit stones, they just aren’t very fast. It’s difficult to justify honing 2-3x longer than using a synth when you end up on a JNat finisher anyway.

The JNat stones that i use as ‘tweeners’ - between bevel set and finish - tend to be super fast tomae layer or a deeper layer, or a suita. Some of these tweeners can also finish very well too. Once you use one of these, it’s just darned hard to pick up an aoto or tsushima.

I used to feel that Mikawa weren’t really worth using either, just too slow, though they are a lot of fun to use. Over the years, I’ve acquired a small number of them that are so rich in grit that they can be used in place of mid grit stones. Many of these were bought in lots with other stones and are unmarked. None of them have Asano stamps.

 

[Gamma]

Your first stone is not Habutae - it is typical Renge, patterning suggests Tenjyou strata. Can't tell by looking, I'd have to lap it and hone on it to know..

A lot of the Jnats sold by woodworking or cutlery sites were just generic sharpening stones; like the so called Meara stones for example. The cheap Jyunshohonyama 'razor stone' from 10-12 yr ago falls into that class. I can usually get a good serviceable edge on cutlery with many of them, can take a while to get 'there' sometimes though. Like generic Aoto, or some stones from Kyushu; just sorta meh..but every now and then one of them is a good bit better than the rest.

 

[Herrenberg]

Your first stone is not Habutae - it is typical Renge, patterning suggests Tenjyou strata. Can't tell by looking, I'd have to lap it and hone on it to know..

Interesting. I won't name the vendor publicly, but he has quite a good reputation. You're sure?

 

[Herrenberg]

This is my Tsushima Black Nagura, which i have not found a good place for.
It is fun to use, but i struggle to find a way this comes to the best use.

View attachment 1307350

Possibly inspired by your post, I re-introduced my Tsushima back into my razor sequence, and I love it. It slotted in perfectly in the same place that the SG3000 occupies, as an edge refiner coming off of the bevel-setter SG1000.

More time than on the SG3000, yes, but this is a hobby, not a profession, and it was much more fun, herding slurry around and waiting for the slick surface to tell me that the resistance at this grit was gone. I fear that my SG3000 has been relegated to a "when I'm in a hurry" role. Also it was a great bridge to a much finer suita than I would generally jump to after the SG3K.

 

[JPO]

I will give this stone another go. I think the problem was that i expected the stone to be much finer then it actually is. The feedback on this stone makes it really fun to use. I also have the SG3000, which also is a really nice finisher for soft kitchen knifes.
Cutting speed is really not my top priority.
I will try a progression starting with 1k to Tsushima, followed by a Jnat nagura progression on a finisher, starting with Tenjyou. If the bevel is ok i could start with the Tsushima.
I also tried the Tsushima with Tenjyou nagura, and it seemed to make it a little smoother. I am not sure if it does anything different to the edge, but it did take away a little of the "dry" feel of the stone.
It is just difficult to quantify the effect on the final edge.

 

[C FrankC]

Just finisher a W&B Celebrated today. I started with a Naniwa 2K to set the bevel w/one layer Kapton tape and then moved on to Tsushima brick w/slurry raised with a trans Ark slip stone. This was a nice bridge to an Ozuku awasedo utilizing an Assano nagura progression starting w/tenjyou > komo. Finished on a sweet little Kiita w/tomo slury, HHT very good. Headed for a shave to test the results.
I agree w/JPO if the bevel is artifact free I could easily start with the Tsushima w/slurry but I think one of my Suita would get me there perhaps a bit quicker, was still satisfying to use this stone in this progression.

 

[C FrankC]

This W/B edge turned out great, very smooth, not tedious and plenty keen. Felt a lot like a well done ark edge.

 

[Yaron]

Could you help me please? What nagura are those? Which is finer, the name of those naguras. Thank you.

 

[LJS]

@Yaron

I think the top one is mejiro and bottom is botan (coarsest). My spelling is likely incorrect.

 

[Steve56]

@LJS got it right!

 

[Yaron]

Thank you @LJS & @Steve56
I just began hone with my brand new Ozuku Asagi and those 2 naguras. I tried to refresh my Tanifuji 935 and i am bit confused until now i honed only with my Naniwa”s, JNAT´s world is mysterious and tempting to me. so i will see tomorrow how i did
Will do report soon
Thanks for help

 

[Yaron]

Let me ask you please…
- when i do full honing, new razor. I have Naniwa, 1,3, 5, 8, 10, Ozuku and Nagura”s Botan & Mejiro. When do i stop on Naniwa”s? On 5k or 8k and then to continue on Ozuku with Botan, then Botan nagura, Mejiro, plain water on Ozuku and strop?
- and how about refresh? Only on Ozuku? Or should i go on 5k, 8k or 10k? and then Ozuku with Nagura”s. Finish on my Kanayama…
Thank you very much for opinions and exporiences …

 

[Steve56]

I usually stop at 5k - I test bevel set at 4k-6k after a little stropping with HHT. If it cuts hair well and your naguras have decent grit in them you should be good.

 

[Yaron]

I usually stop at 5k - I test bevel set at 4k-6k after a little stropping with HHT. If it cuts hair well and your naguras have decent grit in them you should be good.

Thank you @Steve56

 

[Steve56]

YW sir!