I never knew my hones weren’t flat.

[Jakebullet]

I was reading a thread where the user bought some Welsh slates from the same guy I bought mine from.
I’ve had a little piece for a couple of years and a big old slab of a piece for a few months.
The guy I bought from assured me they were flat so I’d never checked them myself and as they’re so hard and I don’t slurry them I’ve never lapped them myself. I’ve always gotten fine shaves from them.
But the guy in the thread said that his was nowhere near flat on arrival and that he’d had to spend a few hours flattening his.
So using the side of a diamond plate as a straight edge I held mine to the light and found neither of them were anywhere near flat. I worked on then for half an hour with a 600 grit plate but I still have a way to go. The big stone was worse than the small one. Convex or concave pretty much everywhere. Not massively so but visible under the straight edge with a bright window behind.
How was I able to get good edges from these stones in that condition? Or have I changed the profile of the razors by using them?
I’m looking forward to trying the slates again when I finish lapping them, though the slates are very hard and this may take a while.

 

[Empire straights]

I was reading a thread where the user bought some Welsh slates from the same guy I bought mine from.
I’ve had a little piece for a couple of years and a big old slab of a piece for a few months.
The guy I bought from assured me they were flat so I’d never checked them myself and as they’re so hard and I don’t slurry them I’ve never lapped them myself. I’ve always gotten fine shaves from them.
But the guy in the thread said that his was nowhere near flat on arrival and that he’d had to spend a few hours flattening his.
So using the side of a diamond plate as a straight edge I held mine to the light and found neither of them were anywhere near flat. I worked on then for half an hour with a 600 grit plate but I still have a way to go. The big stone was worse than the small one. Convex or concave pretty much everywhere. Not massively so but visible under the straight edge with a bright window behind.
How was I able to get good edges from these stones in that condition? Or have I changed the profile of the razors by using them?
I’m looking forward to trying the slates again when I finish lapping them, though the slates are very hard and this may take a while.

I haven't tried mine in a while, how do you use yours? I always have more luck with a vintage hard ark (semi translucent white) or a translucent slip stone but i rad thinking about the welsh slate and trying another go.

 

[Tomo]

In the real world nothing is perfectly flat. X-strokes and narrow hones are techniques that help us get the best out of imperfect tools.

 

[macintoshBR]

In the real world nothing is perfectly flat. X-strokes and narrow hones are techniques that help us get the best out of imperfect tools.

An acrylic plate and lapping film solved it for me. No more hassling with flattening. Cheap as dirt. Consistently great edges

 

[Jakebullet]

I haven't tried mine in a while, how do you use yours? I always have more luck with a vintage hard ark (semi translucent white) or a translucent slip stone but i rad thinking about the welsh slate and trying another go.

I use mine under running water and go until it sticks. I honed a gold dollar on one the other day and got great shaves from it, I really like the finish from them, different from a coticule but a cool smooth edge like that.
I’ve never tried an Arkansas as I don’t know what type to look for. I like my slates, the crazy pre dinosaur age of them, formed in some nameless ocean before a single cell lived on land. Ripped up from the ocean floor over billions of years and now used to keep my razor sharp.

 

[Jakebullet]

An acrylic plate and lapping film solved it for me. No more hassling with flattening. Cheap as dirt. Consistently great edges

Yes you can’t go wrong with film and acrylic, that’s what I got started on, no fuss and great results every time. I do like the feel of stone though.

 

[Jakebullet]

In the real world nothing is perfectly flat. X-strokes and narrow hones are techniques that help us get the best out of imperfect tools.

It makes me wonder, how flat does a stone have to be to be useable? I lap my jnat every 2-3 uses, it’s no trouble, takes a few seconds but does it need it I wonder.

 

[Tomo]

It makes me wonder, how flat does a stone have to be to be useable? I lap my jnat every 2-3 uses, it’s no trouble, takes a few seconds but does it need it I wonder.

Not sure. Probably depends on your definition of usable. I doubt the stones were very flat in the old days and people used them. Flatness becomes more and more critical the wider the stones get.

A flatter stone will make more consistent contact with the edge and produce a more consistent cutting angle. The flatter the better in my mind. I ended up going a little crazy and getting a granite surface plate for lapping. Overkill maybe but if want the best possible performance out of your stones you need the best possible surface. I also use an Atoma from time to time. I have no doubt that my stones are way flatter than an off the shelf piece acrylic. At a certain point it’s flat enough though.

 

[Tomo]

I’ve never tried an Arkansas as I don’t know what type to look for.

Arks are worth a try. They’re good value as far as razor stones go and they make an excellent edge. I’d go out on a limb and say that a good ark is capable of making the sharpest possible natural edge going. They cut whiskers like a laser beam but are curiously reluctant to bite skin.

Part of the extreme sharpness might be down the hardness and purity of the Arkansas Novaculite. They’re a bear to lap initially but after that they wear extremely slowly. This means that they remain highly dimensionally stable and flat for a long long time. Like most good finishers a burnished ark is a slow cutter. They also don’t release any slurry. I’d imagine this is true even on a microscopic level.

Arks are all about the surface prep. You have a lot of control over how they behave by how you finish the surface. They can cut fast or or slow. Fine or extra fine. It’s all in your hands. I generally burnish one side and keep the other side matt.

For a finisher you want a hard dense stone. The best ones are either jet black or translucent. Dan’s modern stones are a sure bet. Vintage hard Norton’s are equally reliable. Apart from that there is some variation. Measuring the stones density will give you a good indication of its potential. At a specific gravity of 2.65 you are in the realm of killer finishers.

 

[Jakebullet]

Arks are worth a try. They’re good value as far as razor stones go and they make an excellent edge. I’d go out on a limb and say that a good ark is capable of making the sharpest possible natural edge going. They cut whiskers like a laser beam but are curiously reluctant to bite skin.

Part of the extreme sharpness might be down the hardness and purity of the Arkansas Novaculite. They’re a bear to lap initially but after that they wear extremely slowly. This means that they remain highly dimensionally stable and flat for a long long time. Like most good finishers a burnished ark is a slow cutter. They also don’t release any slurry. I’d imagine this is true even on a microscopic level.

Arks are all about the surface prep. You have a lot of control over how they behave by how you finish the surface. They can cut fast or or slow. Fine or extra fine. It’s all in your hands. I generally burnish one side and keep the other side matt.

For a finisher you want a hard dense stone. The best ones are either jet black or translucent. Dan’s modern stones are a sure bet. Vintage hard Norton’s are equally reliable. Apart from that there is some variation. Measuring the stones density will give you a good indication of its potential. At a specific gravity of 2.65 you are in the realm of killer finishers.

This is really helpful and a very interesting read, thank you. Is Dan who you mentioned a seller?

 

[Jakebullet]

I just checked my coticule. Also not flat. Then my jnat, also not flat so I took them to the diamond plate today under running water and lapped the hell out of them all and finished lapping my Welsh slates too.

This has all been a real eye opener, I’d assumed they were all largely flat from the sellers and have been using them for ages non the wiser. Well they’re all flat now so I’m going to razor test the lot of them.
I just honed my Bengal 5/8ths near wedge on the now flat coticule, then polished the surface a little with the small slurry stone ive got.
I’ll shave with this tomorrow.

 

[haggis]

Lapping is my 2,748th favorite thing to do!

 

[Jakebullet]

Lapping is my 2,748th favorite thing to do!

Ha, I quite enjoyed lapping them, the coti and jnat were pretty easy. Not the slates though, that big chunk of slate was a real killer.

 

[MasterOfPups]

It makes me wonder, how flat does a stone have to be to be useable? I lap my jnat every 2-3 uses, it’s no trouble, takes a few seconds but does it need it I wonder.

You can hone on a non-flat stone, but it will take a lot longer because of less contact being made. And it can make your edges a bit inconsistent. Flat is better.

 

[Toro Blanco]

Atoma flat is real! Diamond plates are the best way to create a trully flat surface. Just tske a straight edge and see for yourself.

I still love SIC powder for heavy lifting but always finish with the Atoma.

Like MasterofPups says "you can hone on a non-flat stone, but it will take longer" for sure.

 

[Tomo]

It will be interesting to see how this effects your edges. Are they noticeably sharper after lapping the stones?

 

[Jakebullet]

I’ll find out in the morning. I shaved today with a near wedge with a coticule edge. I lapped the coti lager today and re-honed the razor on it I’m hopeful that I’ll feel the difference in sharpness along the whole edge. HHT gave very promising results so let’s see what the morning brings.

 

[stone and strop]

Atoma flat is real! Diamond plates are the best way to create a trully flat surface. Just tske a straight edge and see for yourself.

I still love SIC powder for heavy lifting but always finish with the Atoma.

Like MasterofPups says "you can hone on a non-flat stone, but it will take longer" for sure.

Atoma's are pretty good but most diamond plates are not very flat.
I have a granite surfacing plate if I want flat - dead flat!

 

[Toro Blanco]

Atoma's are pretty good but most diamond plates are not very flat.
I have a granite surfacing plate if I want flat - dead flat!

Yeah I used a Starret granite for years too.

That and a Starret straight edge and you are set!

 

[haggis]

I always use a granite plate for the heavy lifting (no pun intended) so I can use a full range of w/d and the generous surface area. Then if I transfer over to an atoma at either 400 or 1200 I'm always surprised that a grid doesn't clean off more evenly. I glare suspiciously at both plates