[Need your help] How to have better shaving experience?

[Smpl]

Hi B&B!

I'm relatively new to the DE safety world. Some of you may saw my last thread (Blood spots everywhere after using DE razor, help - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/blood-spots-everywhere-after-using-de-razor-help.598125/) and offer good solid advice. Indeed, I see a clear improvement of my shaving skills without leaving nicks after reading tutorials, watching Youtube video (nick shaves), buying new products (brush, shave cream, blades) and doing practice. Thank you!

However, my shaving experience is way far from enjoyable, but burning, exhausting, time-consuming (10-15 mins compared to 3-5 mins of the cartridge razors) and awful. In terms of the closeness, one of the factors which I care the most and bring me from the cartridge and electric razors to DE safety razors world, it is not satisfying. That is to say, after a few shaves (WTG, XTG and ATG), it is only a bit better than cartridge razors (Gillette Proglide Fusion 5 with a canned gel) though much more time investigated.

1. How did I prep and shave?
HOT SHOWER - I rinse my face with adequate warm/hot water and particularly the shaving areas to open up pores and soften the whiskers. LATHER UP - The hot water-soaked brush swirl inside the cream bowl and then lather up face with occasionally dipping a small amount of water. The lather is okay but not dense and silky. 3 PASS SHAVE - a three or four pass shave (WTG, XTG, ATG, or one more ATG) follows. WASH AND CLEAN - I did wash my face to clean residuals and hairs, and lather up between each pass. I assume my procedures are correct, and perhaps the reason for the awful experience comes from the products which I'm gonna talk about. Additionally, I should mention that my facial hair (around mouse and chin) are relatively coarser and tougher than most Europeans.

2. What products am I currently using?

• Shave cream - Taylor of Old Bond Street Sandalwood Shaving Cream Bowl (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0007MW2ZW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
  • The lather is okay but not dense enough and silky. It is probably the main reason why I have seriously burning experience after shaving. One thing I shouldn't forget to mention, which is the part that I dislike the most, it leaves heavy residuals and requires plenty of water and is hard to rinse thoroughly! Additionally, my face is dried out after using this cream (which is even much worse than a Gillette canned Gel) even though I still use some moisturizing products after shaving. Why did I buy this one? I indeed did some research within the forum to find shave soap/cream with 4/5 star reviews (Shaving Soaps (Reviews) - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/reviews/categories/shaving-soaps-reviews.40/?rating_avg=5). However, most of them are not accessible from Amazon UK. I would appreciate if you could offer me some choices of shave soap/cream, which could be found in the UK and ideally Amazon UK. Hopefully, it has mild or no scent. It is easy to produce dense lather. And importantly, it is easy to clean up, and won't dry out the face.
• Brush - Vegan Friendly Shaving Brush - Gentleman's Face Care Club Badger Friendly Shave Brush (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07YN298R7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
  • I have no idea what I can expect from a brush. At least for me, this brush gives me stinging feeling and hard to produce dense lather though it might be the issue of shave cream. Like the one I mentioned, could you give me advice about brush selections, which could be found in the UK and ideally Amazon UK? From what Nick Shaves video recommends, I can find RazoRock Plissoft Monster Synthetic Shaving Brush - 24/26mm and Semogue 830 from Amazon UK. Do you think if I should go directly for any of these?
• Blade - Astra Razor Blade (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001QY8QXM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
  • From my knowledge, feather razor blades are the sharpest ones. As it is currently hard to have a close shave, I wonder if it is because of the blades that I'm using. Since my facial hairs are coarse and tough, I may need to switch to shaper blades, like feather razor blades. How do you think?
• DE safety razor - Merkur 34C HD (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01KKBT3P6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
  • I only have experience with 2 DE safety razors, Merkur 34C HD and KCG DE razor, so I cannot say if it is able to deliver the job. But I like its appearance much more than cartridge razors.

I may edit the text if I miss something. Please do let me know if it is not allowed to attach links here.

Thank you in advance for the kind discussion environment in B&B.

 

[BigJ]

Welcome aboard! Here are a few comments/suggestions:

First, congratulations on your progress!

Second, I suggest you read through the WiKi and watch a few videos as these contain a TON of useful ideas and suggestions.

Third, IMO the best way to approach ‘traditional‘ wet shaving is to look at this as a skill set that will take awhile to acquire. The main thing is that you need to relearn some of the techniques that work with carts, especially NO PRESSURE and to maintain an optimal razor angle!

Stick with this and your results will improve dramatically!

 

[musicman1951]

Taylor's is not my favorite cream, but it's certainly not a bad product. I fine Castle Forbes much nicer, but also more expensive. Lavender is a fairly mild scent.

The two brushes you listed would be fine choices. I don't know your brush, but it sounds pretty unfriendly. The synthetic will be as anti-sting as you can get. Semogue is a well-loved brand here.

The lather sounds like it's not helping, but I suspect technique is part of the problem. BigJ is absolutely right, it takes a while to get your technique perfected. Razor angle and pressure are the usual suspects. Angle will improve with time and practice. Less pressure is available now. I can't tell you how many times I read a new shaver saying he thought he was using light pressure and then had a moment of discovery by making it even lighter.

As long as you don't drop the razor your pressure is not too light. Waaaaaaaay less than the cart.

Hang in there, better days are coming.

 

[SilentTuba]

Hi! You're making progress, which is a *good thing*! Don't lose sight of that!

Unfortunately, DE shaving, especially with a brush and cream/soap, will take longer than a cart. That is just the nature of the beast. I know that isn't what you want to hear, but it's the truth. I've been at this 11 years, and 10-15 minutes sounds about right. I can probably get it done a little quicker if I need to, but I prefer not to rush it; that's when mistakes happen!

As far as your lather, I think from what you describe you need to use more cream. With TOBS, what I used to do is scoop out a dollop (about the size of an almond, or what you would put on a toothbrush). It sounds like your face lathering, so what I would do next is put that dollop right on the brush, and begin building the lather on your face (alternatively, you could smear this dollop all over your face with your fingers, then begin lathering with a damp brush. Either way works). Get it good and spread out, and once the lather starts to build, add a small amount of water, and keep building. As you do this, the lather should begin to get thick and slippery. And trust me, slippery is the name of the game! One of the things I like best about face lathering is that you can feel exactly how slick your lather is, so you'll know by feel when it is time to stop. Thick, picturesque lather is nice, but what really matters is slickness, so don't stop lathering until it feels nice and slick, and you can use "paintbrush" strokes on your face without any drag or resistance.

As far as equipment (razor, blades, cream/soap, brush), my suggestion is to stick with what you have for a while, and stop chasing an equipment solution to your issues. There are simply too many variables in the equation right now; it would be impossible to know if changing a blade made a difference, or if it's down to technique. My suggestion is to stick with it, and continue to improve your technique. Your shaves *will* improve. Once you really get comfortable with the process, you can start to experiment. You have a good razor, good cream, and good blades (I don't know anything about that brush, but it's certainly better than the brush I started with, and used for years). Patience and determination are the key!

Best of luck!!!

 

[Wogus]

Hi B&B!

I'm relatively new to the DE safety world. Some of you may saw my last thread (Blood spots everywhere after using DE razor, help - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/blood-spots-everywhere-after-using-de-razor-help.598125/) and offer good solid advice. Indeed, I see a clear improvement of my shaving skills without leaving nicks after reading tutorials, watching Youtube video (nick shaves), buying new products (brush, shave cream, blades) and doing practice. Thank you!

I'm relatively new to DE shaving myself, having been a cartridge shaver for decades. Unfortunately all those years of cartridge based shaving ingrained certain habits, habits I was not even aware I had because there was no basis for comparison. Having read your posts I'm inclined to think your problem most likely stems from using pressure while shaving. I know that for me, this was THE most difficult thing about using a DE blade to wrap my brain around initially. It's entirely counter-intuitive in my opinion and a totally different technique than what is used for cartridges. I too spent a certain amount of time thinking something "hardware" related had to be to blame: my soap, my razor, my blade... It wasn't. It was my technique. Pure and simple. I think cartridge blade shaving teaches us to shave a certain way, and using pressure without us even being aware that's what we're doing is one of the things it teaches us. It becomes automatic, it feels natural... And truth of the matter is: DE blades just don't respond in the same way.

You've already heard the common refrain, "no pressure" and I think it's what's needed to get you away from bleeding like a stuck pig when using a DE blade. The real question is: how do you get there?

I can only suggest you try what got me over this hump: Grip the razor as close to bottom (opposite end from the blade) as you can using ONLY your index finger and thumb. Pinch the handle with just enough force to maintain a good hold, no "death grip". Holding the razor in this fashion let the razor head/blade REST on the side of your face, you're letting gravity do all the work here. Still using just your index finger and thumb to hold the handle by the bottom, adjust the angle and take one short stroke. Rinse the blade and repeat. That is how I figured out what no pressure shaving feels like. Do not expect your face to be glassy smooth after this one pass, just focus on the technique outlined above. Future passes will get you to DFS territory. You also might want to skip doing an against-the-grain pass and instead do one pass with the grain and two passes across the grain instead. Maintaining the no pressure technique is the most difficult, in my experience, with an against-the-grain pass.

Regarding getting a sharper blade, such as a Feather: Sharper blades require better technique. I'm thinking if you're donating blood using an Astra SP a Feather is only going to take the bloodshed to a whole 'nother level.

 

[TexOkie Shaver]

Solid advice from BigJ & musicman1951. It took me a few weeks of what I thought was torture before I figured it out and began to get better shaves. I was tempted to go back to the Sensor Excel, but I stuck with it and now I am getting wonderful enjoyable shaves that I never would have gotten with the cartridge.

As BigJ and Musicman said, light pressure is the key. Your cartridge required a lot of pressure to keep the blades in contact with the skin and to get a decent shave. DE razors don't require any pressure. Just enough pressure to hold the razor to your face. Let the weight of the razor do the work.

One question I have, are you getting a good slick surface on your face with which to shave. TOBS is a great cream, but it doesn't require a lot of water. You can drown it out and end up with soap on your face without the cushion and slickness that TOBS can offer. Next time you might try the TOBS Jermyn Street for sensitive skin. Once you figure out how to get the right water/cream mix, then you might want to consider moving to a good quality soap. But beware, soaps are a lot more finicky about the water mix than TOBS.

Stick with it, and good luck. As Geofatboy says, Have a great shave, have a great day.

EDIT: While I was typing my original post, two more posts came in. They both offer excellent advice and echo what has already been said. I failed to mention to resist buying new equipment. Your issue is not an equipment issue, you have good equipment. It is a technique issue. It takes time to hone the technique. Continue watching the videos and work on that pressure. On Youtube some of the best videos are Kensurfs, Geofatboy, Nick Shaves, Kevyshaves just to name a few. While you are watching their videos, they often mention other shavers, I know I have forgotten some of them. I've purposely not mentioned the straight razor shavers as you are not nearly ready for that and their technique is different.

 

[Smpl]

Thank you, @BigJ, @musicman1951, @SilentTuba, @Wogus and @TexOkie Shaver . I appreciate your kind advice.

I do realize that I forgot to mention a few things in my main text. The first lesson that I learnt from my last thread is NO PRESSURE and ANGLE. Let the self-weight of the razor finish its work, and maintain a right angle (like between 20-30 degree) while shaving. I was aware of it and indeed did it. This is what got me the place where I no longer hurt myself as before as stated at the beginning of the main text, a big step!

I would definitely consider Castle Forbes and Semogue as suggested by @musicman1951.

I agree with all of you that I could definitely improve my technique to gain better shave experience. However, the problems of shave cream and brushes that I'm currently using as described in the main text are indeed existing, and in terms of blades, I'm not sure about it. We are not playing an upgrading equipment game, but we should not ignore it as well.

 

[South Dakota Guy]

You have received a lot of advice and it can be difficult to absorb it all. I am no expert but I have been on the same journey that you are on for the past two months but with less bloodshed. I know that you have two excellent razors but I would like to recommend a Rockwell 6C or 6S. The main reason is that it has interchangeable plates 1 thru 6 where you can adjust the mildness or aggressiveness of the razor. I started with a two (mild) then went to three then back to two then three for a few weeks then 4 for the past two weeks and today I used the 5 plate and I got my best shave yet. The thing is I have been learning the whole time and improving my technique gradually. Also I shaved daily. For the first 5 weeks I would try the ATG pass about once a week and it would end badly so I would do two XTG passes most days. XTG one way and XTG the other way and got pretty good shaves. For the past three weeks or so I have been able to get an ATG pass daily. One thing that really helped me was finding a blade that agreed with my face and razor. For me that blade is a Personna Israeli Red. It made a big difference in the quality of my shave. That blade might not work so well with you but there is probably a blade that will agree with you better than most others. One thing I discovered is that I tend to get a better lather from shaving soap than even the same brand cream. At least it seems I my skin doesn't get irritated as much. A good lather is so important to avoiding irritation. You might consider using canned shaving cream like Barbasol and spend more time concentrating on your shaving technique. You can always go back to making your shaving cream "old school" later. One thing that caused me irritation and weepers is putting pressure on my blade. I used cartridges for the past 40 years and it is hard to unlearn bad habits. The other thing is touchups, you MUST reapply lather to the spot you are trying to touch up.

 

[woodwzrd]

I'm not sure how stiff your brush is but, when I first started face lathering with a boar brush I was getting that burning sensation even though I had no visible irritation. I eventually learned that I was using way to much pressure and scrubbing to hard causing brush burn. I started lathering in my hand or in a bowl and lo and behold the burning went away. Just something to be conscious about.

 

[Wogus]

I agree with all of you that I could definitely improve my technique to gain better shave experience. However, the problems of shave cream and brushes that I'm currently using as described in the main text are indeed existing, and in terms of blades, I'm not sure about it. We are not playing an upgrading equipment game, but we should not ignore it as well.

If you're looking for a less aggressive brush I can suggest the Simpson T3 in conjunction with your current TOBS soap.

 

[South Dakota Guy]

I'm not sure how stiff your brush is but, when I first started face lathering with a boar brush I was getting that burning sensation even though I had no visible irritation. I eventually learned that I was using way to much pressure and scrubbing to hard causing brush burn. I started lathering in my hand or in a bowl and lo and behold the burning went away. Just something to be conscious about.

Good advice. I don't like natural brushes, it makes me feel like I am pre-irritating my skin before applying the razor. Smpl, you asked about brushes. I see that you are in the UK so I would go with a Simpson Trafalgar T3 synthetic. It is available on Amazon UK as are the Rockwell 6c and 6S

 

[SterFry]

You don't need any new hardware or software. You have everything you need for a comfortable BBS shave. The above advice is good. I'd bet money your technique needs work. I also suspect your lather making needs attention. Most beginners don't realize just how much water a lather needs to perform ideally. Do not shave unlathered areas.

*LIGHT pressure

*STRETCH your skin

*More cream and more water. Agitate thoroughly

Don't give up. You'll get to a point where you'll wish you could spend more than just 20 minutes on your shaving routine. I promise. Consider uploading a video of your lather making and shaving technique if you need further assistance. The problem could be something you wouldn't think to ask about.

 

[Benzadmiral]

Taking 10-15 minutes to shave doesn't sound bad at all. Of course, I'm a 3-pass shaver when my beard is long (48 hours or more since the last shave). Recently, doing daily shaves with 1 pass or 2, I wind up at 9 minutes or so.

Yes, a stiffer brush can contribute to irritation. I began with an EJ badger, and it's pretty soft, but my Semogue boar brush is a bit stiffer. I've discovered that my APShaveCo synthetic (which I originally didn't like as much as I did the other 2) is a much more comfortable tool for me.

Irritation can also be caused, or exacerbated, by using hot water. Try lukewarm to cool if you can.

 

[musicman1951]

Thank you, @BigJ, @musicman1951, @SilentTuba, @Wogus and @TexOkie Shaver . I appreciate your kind advice.

I do realize that I forgot to mention a few things in my main text. The first lesson that I learnt from my last thread is NO PRESSURE and ANGLE. Let the self-weight of the razor finish its work, and maintain a right angle (like between 20-30 degree) while shaving. I was aware of it and indeed did it. This is what got me the place where I no longer hurt myself as before as stated at the beginning of the main text, a big step!

I would definitely consider Castle Forbes and Semogue as suggested by @musicman1951.

I agree with all of you that I could definitely improve my technique to gain better shave experience. However, the problems of shave cream and brushes that I'm currently using as described in the main text are indeed existing, and in terms of blades, I'm not sure about it. We are not playing an upgrading equipment game, but we should not ignore it as well.

There is no way to know how a blade will work without trying it. The good news is that blades are cheap. I'd get a handful and check them out. Your Amazon is pretty light on blades. Maybe try: Razor Blades | The Traditional Shaving Company - The Traditional Shaving Company - https://www.traditionalshaving.co.uk/270334-Razor-Blades

Feather makes excellent, very sharp blades. They are very intolerant of any lapse in technique, so be extra careful with those. I have never had a weeper with a Feather, but I didn't try them early in the process and I treat them with a great deal of respect.

 

[SilentTuba]

I agree with all of you that I could definitely improve my technique to gain better shave experience. However, the problems of shave cream and brushes that I'm currently using as described in the main text are indeed existing, and in terms of blades, I'm not sure about it. We are not playing an upgrading equipment game, but we should not ignore it as well.

I understand your frustration, but I honestly think switching to another cream will not improve things. From what you’re describing, it doesn’t sound like you’re building a good lather. I suggest using more product, and try building a “practice lather” in your palm, or in a bowl. Lather to the point where you normally would shave. Then keep lathering. Add water, and keep going. You *should* see it start to improve, and get to that slippery “soft peaks” stage. Keep adding water, and keep going, to get a sense for what happens when you push it too far, and have too much water (large bubbles, very runny, little slickness). It’ll give you a better sense of what you should be aiming for, and should improve your shaves dramatically. If that doesn’t work, then it’s time to try a new product, but I really think you’ll be able to solve a lot of your problem by improving your lather.


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[Invicta]

You have been given very good advice so far but covering a few points;

However, my shaving experience is way far from enjoyable, but burning, exhausting, time-consuming (10-15 mins compared to 3-5 mins of the cartridge razors) and awful. In terms of the closeness, one of the factors which I care the most and bring me from the cartridge and electric razors to DE safety razors world, it is not satisfying. That is to say, after a few shaves (WTG, XTG and ATG), it is only a bit better than cartridge razors

Making lather and preparation takes time, something you have not been doing before using canned foams / gels. However you can return to canned foam and gels if you want to save time. The actual shaving time for three passes is relatively short. The DE razor principle is gradual reduction of stubble and the the final ATG pass gives a very close shave. Good preparation and lather are important aspects to achieving a great shave as opposed to a mediocre shave. In time you will achieve a great shave in 10 minutes face lathering; see Mark Herro on the 10 minute shave.

The lather is okay but not dense enough and silky.

Clearly more experimenting needed here, load a fixed amount of cream from the bowl with spoon or small spatula, onto face or brush, so you get consistency. TfOBS creams are easy to lather so stick with it. Perhaps consider brush and cream at the weekend when you have more time available. I sense some impatience in your approach but a 10 minute great shave is achievable with brush, cream and a DE razor.

I have no idea what I can expect from a brush. At least for me, this brush gives me stinging feeling and hard to produce dense lather though it might be the issue of shave cream. Like the one I mentioned, could you give me advice about brush selections, which could be found in the UK and ideally Amazon UK?

Could not find any information on knot or loft of this brush other than it is synthetic. I suggest it may be you are probably pressing the brush too hard into the face which is causing irritation. At this stage changing the brush may not be advisable till you sort out your lather and how you build it on the face. Generally use a tip action and avoid mashing the brush.

From my knowledge, feather razor blades are the sharpest ones. As it is currently hard to have a close shave, I wonder if it is because of the blades that I'm using. Since my facial hairs are coarse and tough, I may need to switch to shaper blades, like feather razor blades. How do you think?

Astra SP are good blades but try a blade sampler. The Connaught 40 blade Gillete pack will give you a few different blades to try. Feather blades are unforgiving and will be a bad experience if your technique is poor. Sharp and smooth are parameters to look for in a blade but this is one of the most subjective areas in shaving.

I only have experience with 2 DE safety razors, Merkur 34C HD and KCG DE razor, so I cannot say if it is able to deliver the job.

The razors are more than capable if you know how to use them.

and maintain a right angle (like between 20-30 degree) while shaving.

Sounds like you are shaving at a steep angle and scraping rather than cutting. The blade does the cutting not the handle so reference should be made to blade angle. This illustration may help;

 

[Smpl]

Really thank you, everyone, for your time and detailed reply and explanation in patience (particularly @Invicta). I have read carefully all your notes and keep in my the points that I may need to practice and improve later. Thank you!

As the techniques are mostly covered here, I hope to see some shave soap or cream products recommendation. As said in the main text, A few major facts that I don't like TfOBS are PRESERVATION MOISTURE (dry out of my face), BURNING (after shaving), HEAVY RESIDUALS, LATHER DENSITY. Regardless of other shaving products, this is definitely the one that does not suit me. At least one canned gel (Elemis Ice Cool Foaming Shave Gel) at my hand gives me a much better experience than TfOBS, but I want to see a traditional shave soap or cream to revolutionize the whole experience as what normally expected when comparing shave soap/cream versus canned gels.

 

[South Dakota Guy]

Really thank you, everyone, for your time and detailed reply and explanation in patience (particularly @Invicta). I have read carefully all your notes and keep in my the points that I may need to practice and improve later. Thank you!

As the techniques are mostly covered here, I hope to see some shave soap or cream products recommendation. As said in the main text, A few major facts that I don't like TfOBS are PRESERVATION MOISTURE (dry out of my face), BURNING (after shaving), HEAVY RESIDUALS, LATHER DENSITY. Regardless of other shaving products, this is definitely the one that does not suit me. At least one canned gel (Elemis Ice Cool Foaming Shave Gel) at my hand gives me a much better experience than TfOBS, but I want to see a traditional shave soap or cream to revolutionize the whole experience as what normally expected when comparing shave soap/cream versus canned gels.

I have been using a soap manufactured by DR Harris. Their soaps contain tallow and seem to do a great job in making a slick and protective lather for me. It comes in various scents. I am using Windsor which my wife likes. It is sold on Amazon UK. Many like Mitchells Wool Fat soap but some have reported difficulty making lather while others have little trouble making lather.

 

[musicman1951]

Just a thought: burning after shaving is usually irritation, but there is also the possibility that you're having an allergic reaction to one of the soap ingredients.

 

[SilentTuba]

Try Proraso White. Proraso is a very good product, easy to lather, and the white variety is for sensitive skin (I’m a big fan of the green, with menthol and eucalyptus, but the white is probably where you should start). Readily available and cheap on UK Amazon.

EDIT: Proraso Blue would also be a good choice.


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