Failing at setting the bevel correctly

[Seg85]

Hey all! I'm pretty puzzled as I've been consistently failing to set the bevel on my very first SR. I got this a few years ago, and seldom got to use it as it was not shave ready (which I ignored back in the day). Quite a few years have passed and I wanted to hone it, however I'm failing at following the method and I'd love to understand what's going on!

I'm using a 1k stone to set the bevel, made sure I set a pretty abundant burr on both sides and then removed it with alternating strokes... As per my previous experience with other blades, this should be enough to shave arm hair but it doesn't even begin to do it. Any input on what I may be doing wrong??

Cheers!

Seb

 

[rbscebu]

The most common problem people have who are coming from knife sharpening is that they use too much pressure. SR blades are a lot harder and more brittle than most knives.

 

[Seg85]

Thanks!!! May I add, I've set the bevel correctly on other razors I've got (and have shaved with them afterwards!)
Definitely noted tho. Cheers

 

[rbscebu]

That being the case, try again. Just go for the faintest of a bevel all along the edge, not abundant. Then just very light pressure when removing it with your alternating laps. Take your time. You are not in a rush.

 

[xmacro]

Obligatory reference: Setting the Bevel with the Burr Method - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/setting-the-bevel-with-the-burr-method.516373/

I'm a total newbie to SR's and honing, so take this with a grain of salt, but my advice is, once you've got a burr, you're done. Even if it won't cut, you're done with the 1k.
If you're really paranoid about setting a proper bevel (like me), use the marker test - apply a black permanent marker to the edge of the blade, lap it 2 or 3 times, see if it's uniformly gone; if it is, you're done, the bevel is set forevermore. Use some rubbing/isopropyl alcohol to take the marker off and then get off the 1k

 

[Seg85]

Thanks Xmacro! Can confirm that post has been followed to the tee, and thus when "After successfully and correctly using the method, the bevel will pass all the standard bevel tests such as thumbnail, cherry tomato, forearm shaving, etc" isn't met, I started to worry!

I'd love to know more about your experience: After setting the bevel and it not shaving, have you had good experiences with getting the blade to shave ready after you ran the progression?

Cheers!

 

[RumpleBearskin]

Shaving hair has a lot to do with the hair you are trying to shave. I generally have trouble shaving arm hair after setting a proper bevel

I rely much more on the thumbnail test (TNT) to check for a well set bevel. If it passes the TNT, I know I can get it killer sharp through the progression.

 

[global_dev]

Can you tell us more about and post clear picture of this blade?

size, honewear, etc.

 

[Seg85]

Some pics!

 

[Seg85]

Shaving hair has a lot to do with the hair you are trying to shave. I generally have trouble shaving arm hair after setting a proper bevel

I rely much more on the thumbnail test (TNT) to check for a well set bevel. If it passes the TNT, I know I can get it killer sharp through the progression.

Thanks mate! I'm doing some research on the TNT as I have never used it before, but from your feedback and everyone's so far cutting hair isn't the end all be all! I may reset and take it through the progression once again and see where I end up.

EDIT: Can confirm it definitely digs into a nail with absolutely no pressure.

 

[xmacro]

My latest blade, a Japanese Cape 2000, barely shaved arm hair after setting the bevel on the 1k - blade to skin and pushing down, it maaaybe took off 1 or 2 hairs. I put it on the 5k and it got a little easier to shave blade on skin; it wasn't until I got to the 8 or 12k lapping film that it really started to knock down hairs just by hovering over the skin, and by the time I was on the 0.3 micron, it was doing great.

 

[Ridgeback]

The most common problem people have who are coming from knife sharpening is that they use too much pressure. SR blades are a lot harder and more brittle than most knives.

What is the RC on a razor?....I have 20+ knives in my block and all range between 62 - 64

 

[rbscebu]

What is the RC on a razor?....I have 20+ knives in my block and all range between 62 - 64

The SR's that I have range from about 60 RHC up to close on 70 RHC. I hear that some of the more vintage SR's are down to the high 40's, although I haven't owned or tested any.

 

[Ridgeback]

The SR's that I have range from about 60 RHC up to close on 70 RHC. I hear that some of the more vintage SR's are down to the high 40's, although I haven't owned or tested any.

Good to know.

 

[global_dev]

Dovo Best are known for having some potential warp issues, and i think i see some of it or perhaps even a frown issue underneath the "QUALITY >>" area f the etching.

how experienced are you with honing?

i know my picture may have some perspective issues, but check this basic pic that more or less should show the issue.

 

[LJS]

It is a razor, so regardless of hair type I would expect it to shave if set on a decent stone ~1000 grit.

Burr on a razor is unnecessary by an extreme and maybe that is ruining your apex. But generally when someone says a razor won’t shave hair then they don’t have a bevel set and have not actually reached the edge.

Sorry to sound contrary with others, but I think it should shave and by it not shaving demonstrates you do not have a good edge set.

 

[Seg85]

Thank you all for your views! Learning a lot just from this interchange alone.
Update: Took the blade through a 12, 9,5,3,1 lapping film progression, no shaving is possible.

Global: Thank you for checking the pic so thoroughly. I'm not very experienced with honing. I've managed to get a few razors from absolutely dull to "can shave me comfortably" but after trying a shavette I understand I could do way better. After repeating this process with other blades I was able to shave arm hair for sure. I tried to shave with different parts of the blade and none really shaves arm hair after the progression without a scraping angle.

LJS: I understand and agree that getting to a burr is going above what's needed to define the correct geometry. I also believe its a necessary over exaggeration to balance out my lack of experience! My expectations so far align with you: 1k bevel set properly has always shaved some hair for me, even starting with badly damaged razors vs this fairly new and unused one! Im confused as I dont know what else to do if I'm generating a burr AND not getting a shave with it.

Thanks once again to all of you for your time!

 

[global_dev]

So there a couple ways to address this, “badly damaged” razors could have better geometry along the length of the edge than this “new” one.

some folks would do the wobble test and attack that way. I’m not familiar enough with it to suggest it.

my preference would be to work the edge in sections on a narrower hone (like 1-2” wide).

it’s definitely good exposure on learning to hone!

 

[ajduplessis]

It looks like you use both hands on the blade when honing, also looks like you are pressure heavy especially on the toe and heel. You are also honing the stabiliser, keep it off the stone its adding to your problems.

I never raise a burr and set my bevels on 1.2k King stone, sometimes a coti but still no burrs.

Your geometry is slipping, I would suggest rolling x-strokes going forward, or using a narrower stone as mention above. Asking a highly recommend member to correct things for you is another route.

 

[LJS]

Update: Took the blade through a 12, 9,5,3,1 lapping film progression, no shaving is possible.

So, this is something you do not need to do. If it is not shaving at ~1000 you do not progress through a progression. You stay at one stage until it is done. Especially bevel setting stage which is the foundation of your razors edge. If it is not shaving at 1000 yet, keep honing on the 1000 until it does. There is no point in polishing a blade that doesn’t have an edge which is all finer stones will do.

I know you said you got a burr etc. but everything you have said tells that you don’t have the bevel set. Look with some magnification and see. Not that you have to because you can already feel it by it not being able to shave. A kitchen or utility knife with a good apexed edge will shave even. Just keep at it and you will get there.