What's new

Arko is okay. Its optimum lather comes in at 12th place out of 17.

Thanks for doing these optimization things Mr Numbers! You did catch a lot of flac before, and held your head up. And Cappy Scott took it on the chin like the true Gent he is!

Very true!

Thank you know Who that we still have freedom of speech here, many places don't.

Also very true!

Please keep these reviews coming, even though you OBVIOUSLY have it out for the Arko Man! Remember, just because he looks like a nice, smiling guy, doesn't mean he doesn't have feelings!

Maybe I'll get back to them someday. The Arko Man made me promise by knifepoint, but I was under duress!

How could such a controversial thread not have any action since December 2018? Weird.

I was surprised about that, too, as I remember it . . . a little disappointed, actually. Hey, when you put time into a thorough evaluation, you like having some discussion about it. I learned that sometimes a review just doesn't hit all cylinders and seems to get lost among other posts going on.
 

FarmerTan

"Self appointed king of Arkoland"
Very true!



Also very true!



Maybe I'll get back to them someday. The Arko Man made me promise by knifepoint, but I was under duress!



I was surprised about that, too, as I remember it . . . a little disappointed, actually. Hey, when you put time into a thorough evaluation, you like having some discussion about it. I learned that sometimes a review just doesn't hit all cylinders and seems to get lost among other posts going on.
Any post about my loveliest smelling soap is going to get some traction! I will scream it from the rooftops! Your hard werk needs to be rewarded! Like maybe a lifetime supply of Arko sticks, delivered by the Arko Man himself.

Of course, by my very studious calculations, a lifetime supply of Arko, supposing you start face shaving at 12.5 years of age, and shave every day until you die at 102, like I plan to, well, my calculations came up with 5.67 sticks of Arko. So the Arko Man may figure mailing you your reward would be cheaper than air fare for an in person presentation.
 
Any post about my loveliest smelling soap is going to get some traction! I will scream it from the rooftops! Your hard werk needs to be rewarded! Like maybe a lifetime supply of Arko sticks, delivered by the Arko Man himself.

Of course, by my very studious calculations, a lifetime supply of Arko, supposing you start face shaving at 12.5 years of age, and shave every day until you die at 102, like I plan to, well, my calculations came up with 5.67 sticks of Arko. So the Arko Man may figure mailing you your reward would be cheaper than air fare for an in person presentation.

I don't know, Dave. With flights being so cheap now, maybe it would cost less for the Arko Man to hand-deliver! :001_tongu
 

FarmerTan

"Self appointed king of Arkoland"
I don't know, Dave. With flights being so cheap now, maybe it would cost less for the Arko Man to hand-deliver! :001_tongu
And ya know, anybody who looks THAT MUCH like Clark Kent maybe can fly too, ya think?

I'm gonna have to see if I can get an Arko Man cape custom made! Someone on here had an 8×10 glossy and a coffee mug done up!
 
I will keep looking for the Guide to appear again. I have appreciated many of @ShavingByTheNumbers posts, but have yet to dip into the lather guide.

I have been tweaking my lathers lately. Taking up SR shaving stimulated me to pay more attention, especially to initial lubrication (how easily my SR starts cutting), which to me is one aspect of slickness.

I’m not trying to get one perfect lather, rather trying to adjust my lathering to different types of razors (SR, OC, slant, Gem SE), to different models of razors and blades, and to different amounts of beard growth. And just to explore how very different lathers can be.

I don’t hope to dial in a lather for every possible shave set up, but tweaking and observing have been pretty instructive. I have been combining soaps and creams lately. It all started with someone’s suggestion of a dab of Cremo on a puck before loading.

Getting these detailed and thoughtful posts on lathers is extremely helpful. I’m personally juggling too many variables to generate anything rankable myself, but these numbers and the judgements are instructive. Thanks for doing all that work!
 

FarmerTan

"Self appointed king of Arkoland"
I will keep looking for the Guide to appear again. I have appreciated many of @ShavingByTheNumbers posts, but have yet to dip into the lather guide.

I have been tweaking my lathers lately. Taking up SR shaving stimulated me to pay more attention, especially to initial lubrication (how easily my SR starts cutting), which to me is one aspect of slickness.

I’m not trying to get one perfect lather, rather trying to adjust my lathering to different types of razors (SR, OC, slant, Gem SE), to different models of razors and blades, and to different amounts of beard growth. And just to explore how very different lathers can be.

I don’t hope to dial in a lather for every possible shave set up, but tweaking and observing have been pretty instructive. I have been combining soaps and creams lately. It all started with someone’s suggestion of a dab of Cremo on a puck before loading.

Getting these detailed and thoughtful posts on lathers is extremely helpful. I’m personally juggling too many variables to generate anything rankable myself, but these numbers and the judgements are instructive. Thanks for doing all that work!
Well said.
 
I've been using Arko shave stick for years now. I agree the scent is odd, almost urinal cake like, but I have the best success with this when I shower shave.
I love how it lathers quickly and I've it last from first pass to third pass without having to reapply. I don't use a bowl to create lather, I simply face lather.

Never had any irritation or dry feeling afterwards.

Can't beat it for the price, not even bulk price.

Another plus to this, is it's great for travel.

Downside, is definitely the scent.
 

musicman1951

three-tu-tu, three-tu-tu
Yes it sure is! It's great when someone like @ShavingByTheNumbers takes the time to do something like this. It's very helpful in indicating how much product, water, and time are required to optimize their favorite soap or cream. And ultimately to see what each shave costs. The table indicates in clear numbers how long a tub of Stirling goes and very likely why so many people love it around here, same with Arko.

And yet, it's still just one shaver's experience. Many others with many years of experience have used the same products and arrived at completely different results. It looks like science, doesn't it? But cushion is determined by the quality of the lather you make on any given day, and the technique you produce on that same given day. And after all that it's still an opinion on what the cushion felt like.

It's interesting, but if you look at any post of "favorite soaps" you'll find that there are 37 clear winners in that category. I always appreciate the effort put into these endeavors, but in the end there is no substitute for doing your own experimenting until you find what works for you.
 
And yet, it's still just one shaver's experience. Many others with many years of experience have used the same products and arrived at completely different results. It looks like science, doesn't it? But cushion is determined by the quality of the lather you make on any given day, and the technique you produce on that same given day. And after all that it's still an opinion on what the cushion felt like.

It's interesting, but if you look at any post of "favorite soaps" you'll find that there are 37 clear winners in that category. I always appreciate the effort put into these endeavors, but in the end there is no substitute for doing your own experimenting until you find what works for you.

+1! Yes indeed! Probably more than ‘37 clear winners!’ :a29:

It takes me awhile to ‘dial in’ a new soap. Getting optimal results is trial and error, very far from ‘science.’
 
How is mass of soap and water controlled?

Why is there such a disparity in soap mass between soaps? I haven't used your bottom or top soap, but the top soap having the highest mass in testing and the bottom soap having the lowest mass in testing suggests something... especially when it's almost 3x the soap in the "best" example vs the "worst".

I could make ANY two soaps rank with one above the other if I incorporated 3x the water into one vs the other. Ivory will beat Tabac if I put 3x the water into the Tabac. Or vice Versa (cough*Mdc*cough). If I wanted to make a soap that can HANDLE a ton of water bad, I could use far less water and then produce a tacky, irritating lather.

From these results and what I understand about your technique. It appears to favor soaps with a lot of superfatting... ie certain artisans, absolutely screws any hard soap you didn't soak (not soaking basically makes testing a hard soap pointless), and past that it can be highly controlled by adjusting water ratio.
 
Last edited:
And yet, it's still just one shaver's experience. Many others with many years of experience have used the same products and arrived at completely different results. It looks like science, doesn't it? But cushion is determined by the quality of the lather you make on any given day, and the technique you produce on that same given day. And after all that it's still an opinion on what the cushion felt like.

It's interesting, but if you look at any post of "favorite soaps" you'll find that there are 37 clear winners in that category. I always appreciate the effort put into these endeavors, but in the end there is no substitute for doing your own experimenting until you find what works for you.

I agree 100%. Each person will arrive at their own conclusion. Although I think the majority will be similar. I think Arko is the easiest to use and it makes a great lather but my top 2 soaps are La Toja & Mystic Water and nothing will change my mind.
 
And yet, it's still just one shaver's experience. Many others with many years of experience have used the same products and arrived at completely different results. It looks like science, doesn't it? But cushion is determined by the quality of the lather you make on any given day, and the technique you produce on that same given day. And after all that it's still an opinion on what the cushion felt like.

It's interesting, but if you look at any post of "favorite soaps" you'll find that there are 37 clear winners in that category. I always appreciate the effort put into these endeavors, but in the end there is no substitute for doing your own experimenting until you find what works for you.

You're right that it's just my opinion in the end, and I'm very upfront about how my results work for me and are hoped to help others. The reason that my technique looks scientific is because it is. Scientific investigation requires repeatability. That's what I get because quantities and method are controlled. When doing that, I can reproduce each lather and make lathers that are similar but different because of known factors. Nevertheless, as you say, it's still an opinion about how I judge those lathers and decide which is best, but at least I can define the lathers with objective quantities and reasonable technique so that others can reproduce them if desired.

+1! Yes indeed! Probably more than ‘37 clear winners!’ :a29:

It takes me awhile to ‘dial in’ a new soap. Getting optimal results is trial and error, very far from ‘science.’

Getting optimal results is trial and error for me, too, but the process is more scientific. My exact lather method with measured masses made dialing in soaps and creams much easier, and I was then able to communicate the results to others without having to rely on the standard qualitative language.

How is mass of soap and water controlled?

My method of building each lather involves measuring masses of soap/cream and water in a lathering bowl and then building the bowl lather over a measured amount of time with an initially dry synthetic brush.

Why is there such a disparity in soap mass between soaps? I haven't used your bottom or top soap, but the top soap having the highest mass in testing and the bottom soap having the lowest mass in testing suggests something... especially when it's almost 3x the soap in the "best" example vs the "worst".

I could make ANY two soaps rank with one above the other if I incorporated 3x the water into one vs the other. Ivory will beat Tabac if I put 3x the water into the Tabac. Or vice Versa (cough*Mdc*cough). If I wanted to make a soap that can HANDLE a ton of water bad, I could use far less water and then produce a tacky, irritating lather.

The disparity naturally happened because soaps are different from each other. For the soap at the bottom of my list, I went through the same optimization process as I did for the soap at the top of my list. Water-to-soap/cream ratios were varied in searching for the optimum value for each soap/cream and the effects on performance parameters were recorded and published. Links are provided in the lather optimization guide, but the ShaveWiki is currently down.

From these results and what I understand about your technique. It appears to favor soaps with a lot of superfatting... ie certain artisans, absolutely screws any hard soap you didn't soak (not soaking basically makes testing a hard soap pointless), and past that it can be highly controlled by adjusting water ratio.

I never looked at superfatting, but you might be right about the presence of a correlation. Yes, soaking is a factor, especially for hard soaps. Unfortunately, I didn't start incorporating that factor into my optimization process until sometime later, which is why there are soaps in my table with asterisks in the SCS (soap/cream soaked?) column that correspond to the note which says "* Soaking might be best, but it was not tested".
 

FarmerTan

"Self appointed king of Arkoland"
Used Arko today after a long hiatus (Arko August!) and man, the stuff really does a magnificent job. Still mildly funky but the lather is without equal, in my limited experience!
I agree. It may not please everyone in the scent department, but it is as good as any shaving soap in performance.
 
Top Bottom