Lapping film, try it.

[macintoshBR]

Another question: I see the latest trend is using a 3/4" thick piece of acrylic/plexiglass as the base for lapping film. How flat is acrylic, in your experience?

Acrylic tolerances are quite high, based on some Internet research I've done, and my experience with (thin) 3mm acrylic sheets have shown that they generally are far from being flat. I even tried to heat them in the oven with a heavy pieace of marble on top but they always ended up warping when cooling.

I currently use a nice piece of marble that I've got for free from a marble shop nearby, and I am satisfied with it, but it is heavy to hold for a full progression and I wanted an alternative option to hone off the bench sometimes.

I have just honed my new Wacker Best Tradition on a 12-5-3-1u film progression (finishing with picopaper), as I found the Convex-Arkansas edge Jarrod from TSS put on it too harsh (even though the HHT was among the best I've ever seen). At the end, I did 3 stropping strokes on the 0.3u film followed by linen and leather regular stropping. It's the first time I use the 0.3u. I've got only 1 sheet and decided to give it a try, but given the feedback here I decided to use it like a pasted strop instead of the usual edge-leading honing stroke.

I will test shave tomorrow, and I am looking forward to it. The edge is mirror polished and the HHT is quite decent. This is my first Wacker, and I am impressed. One notch above other Soligen houses in terms of build quality. It's a singing extra-thin bellied razor at an affordable price.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Another question: I see the latest trend is using a 3/4" thick piece of acrylic/plexiglass as the base for lapping film. How flat is acrylic, in your experience?

Acrylic tolerances are quite high, based on some Internet research I've done, and my experience with (thin) 3mm acrylic sheets have shown that they generally are far from being flat. I even tried to heat them in the oven with a heavy pieace of marble on top but they always ended up warping when cooling.

I currently use a nice piece of marble that I've got for free from a marble shop nearby, and I am satisfied with it, but it is heavy to hold for a full progression and I wanted an alternative option to hone off the bench sometimes.

I have just honed my new Wacker Best Tradition on a 12-5-3-1u film progression (finishing with picopaper), as I found the Convex-Arkansas edge Jarrod from TSS put on it too harsh (even though the HHT was among the best I've ever seen). At the end, I did 3 stropping strokes on the 0.3u film followed by linen and leather regular stropping. It's the first time I use the 0.3u. I've got only 1 sheet and decided to give it a try, but given the feedback here I decided to use it like a pasted strop instead of the usual edge-leading honing stroke.

I will test shave tomorrow, and I am looking forward to it. The edge is mirror polished and the HHT is quite decent. This is my first Wacker, and I am impressed. One notch above other Soligen houses in terms of build quality. It's a singing extra-thin bellied razor at an affordable price.

That Wacker sounds like a fine razor.

There are two classes of acrylic sheet: cast, and extruded. Extruded can be slightly wonky but is cheaper. Cast is meant to have good optical quality and is quite flat. I haven't tested it or seen any flatness test results but the honing results do seem slightly better. And it is very light, considering the thickness and rigidity.

A 3/4" x 3" x 12" piece of cast clear acrylic from TAP Plastics only costs $10 (There is a $10 minimum order, it is actually a bit less so order more than one for biggest bang for the buck)

Be sure to add a few pull strokes to prevent formation of fin edge. That is probably the leading cause of harshness. The .3u film is hard to manage anyway, comfort-wise, and I abandoned that grit early on. I stopped with 1u. Later on, I got into balsa and diamond and tossed all my .3u film.

There was probably no need to go back beyond the finisher to tame the Arkie edge. I would have just gave it a dozen on the 1u film or until stiction is present, then a few pull strokes and finally a half dozen very lightest regular laps. A bevel is a bevel, so long as it is flat and complete.

 

[macintoshBR]

That Wacker sounds like a fine razor.

There are two classes of acrylic sheet: cast, and extruded. Extruded can be slightly wonky but is cheaper. Cast is meant to have good optical quality and is quite flat. I haven't tested it or seen any flatness test results but the honing results do seem slightly better. And it is very light, considering the thickness and rigidity.

A 3/4" x 3" x 12" piece of cast clear acrylic from TAP Plastics only costs $10 (There is a $10 minimum order, it is actually a bit less so order more than one for biggest bang for the buck)

Be sure to add a few pull strokes to prevent formation of fin edge. That is probably the leading cause of harshness. The .3u film is hard to manage anyway, comfort-wise, and I abandoned that grit early on. I stopped with 1u. Later on, I got into balsa and diamond and tossed all my .3u film.

There was probably no need to go back beyond the finisher to tame the Arkie edge. I would have just gave it a dozen on the 1u film or until stiction is present, then a few pull strokes and finally a half dozen very lightest regular laps. A bevel is a bevel, so long as it is flat and complete.

I went for a full progression because I know from Youtube videos that Wacker finishes on a Naniwa 12K with lots of strokes. Coupled with the Convex Ark finish, I thought it would be a good idea to remove a little bit of metal and create a new edge. Film is so great it barely removes metal so the hone wear is minimum.

The shave this morning was much better. Less sharp, of course, but way smoother and closer, no skipping at all as before. It's crazy how 1u film can balance sharpness and gentleness at the same time.

I will use the Wacker for a few more days and maybe will give it a Coticule finish (20 gentle strokes) for even greater smoothness. I did this in the past with my monster Filarmonica #14 and the Coti tamed it down quite a bit while not losing any sharpness from the films.

I have an 18mm thick 250x80mm cast acrylic plate inbound from a local vendor ($11 shipped). Let's see how flat it is when it arrives. Worst case I will look for a glass shower shelf, which will also do the job very well.

Does anyone here also use lapping film to with general kitchen knives? I would love to hear about your setup and progression.

 

[Sukeroku]

Honing/film lapping newbie here. I am looking to get started. Is this a good starter pack?

• 

 

[rbscebu]

Honing/film lapping newbie here. I am looking to get started. Is this a good starter pack?

• View attachment 1061243

Yes, but you will have no need for the 0.3 micron film. Also the price seems rather high. You might try to keep on looking online. I got 7 sheets 30u to 0.3u for USD 15 including delivery to my door in the Philippines within a week from China.

The 9u will probably not be enough on which to set a bevel, but you can use a cheap whetsone to do that.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Honing/film lapping newbie here. I am looking to get started. Is this a good starter pack?

• View attachment 1061243

Well, you will need a bevel setter. 30u is about right. 15u will work. 1k grit sandpaper will work. A Chosera 1k is the bees knees. A 1k Naniwa Superstone isn't bad. Main thing is if you use a stone for bevel setting, you need to lap it when you get it, and periodically thereafter. And the .3u is gonna give you a pretty sour edge. I don't care for it and I don't use it. From 1u or 12k grit, use the three stage lapped and pasted balsa progression as per The Method.

 

[macintoshBR]

Well, you will need a bevel setter. 30u is about right. 15u will work. 1k grit sandpaper will work. A Chosera 1k is the bees knees. A 1k Naniwa Superstone isn't bad. Main thing is if you use a stone for bevel setting, you need to lap it when you get it, and periodically thereafter. And the .3u is gonna give you a pretty sour edge. I don't care for it and I don't use it. From 1u or 12k grit, use the three stage lapped and pasted balsa progression as per The Method.

which film do you start with after setting the bevel on sandpaper / naniwa / chosera?

 

[Slash McCoy]

Generally 12u or 9u. Then the next finer and so on. Starting with 12u, you go 12, 5, 3, 1u or else 12, 9, 5, 3, 1 or 12, 9, 3, 1, or better yet just 9, 3, and 1u. The bigger grit particle is coarser. The smaller grit particle is finer.

 

[macintoshBR]

So I was still not fully pleased with the Wacker, and decided to have a closer look at the edge with my 10X loupe.

It was fine, but not as shiny as it typically gets when finishing on 1u film. I thought I did not give enough passes on the finisher with fear of overhoning (is that a real thing?)

anyway, 30 additional very light laps on the 1u film and the edge was finally polished to a mirror finish. The shave this morning was fantastic, finally on par with other razors and with my expectations for the Wacker. I don’t know about you, but the edge has almost like a “paper” feeling on my face. There was zero burn sensation from the alum block.

It’s been 1 year since I got my first sample pack of films, and I couldn’t be happier. I just wish I had discovered it earlier. So far I have used less than half a sheet, so for regular straight razor shavers like me it’s undoubtedly the perfect solution.

 

[Sukeroku]

OK. Based on Slasher McCoy's counsel. I bought 30, 9, 3, 1u today. I have read up on the pasted balsa progression as per The Method, but to be honest I live in a very small apartment in Japan. Space is at a premium with me and SWMBO (one of the reasons why I went with lapping film instead of stones was because of space considerations). So, can I get away with the above progression and stropping on a good Kanayama strop? Will this yield a reasonably sharp edge?

 

[slim6596]

Within my extremely limited experience, I would think that you could, assuming you are starting out with a razor that is actually shave ready. I have no pasted balsa strips (yet ) and have been shaving with my straight. But I started with an excellent edge, as it was sent to me scary sharp. All I have is film from 30-.03 micron and a beginner strop.

 

[Slash McCoy]

OK. Based on Slasher McCoy's counsel. I bought 30, 9, 3, 1u today. I have read up on the pasted balsa progression as per The Method, but to be honest I live in a very small apartment in Japan. Space is at a premium with me and SWMBO (one of the reasons why I went with lapping film instead of stones was because of space considerations). So, can I get away with the above progression and stropping on a good Kanayama strop? Will this yield a reasonably sharp edge?

A reasonably sharp edge? Sure. Maybe a bit better than "reasonably sharp", actually. A 1u film edge should max out just slightly higher than a typical 12k Naniwa edge. And you can up your game by finishing on lather for more sharpness, or picopaper for more smoothness. Once you are maxing out on the 1u film, then try your hand at the lather trick. The idea is max out the edge first, then add lather and begin with very light pressure and gradually reduce pressure even more as you hone it on out. Usually takes a couple hundred laps. Add more lather as needed. It will start out with stiction but as you float the blade further and further off the film, it will feel like you have lost contact, but it is there. With the buffering of the lather, the scratches get shallower and shallower. When you really nail it, the sharpness jumps as if you had moved up another grit or two. It can only work when you have achieved max sharpness on the film with just water, though. While film honing is mostly a science, honing on lather is more of an art. You will get a feel for it before you are really nailing it. So stick with the basics first, but know that the process can be refined a bit more once your skills are up to the task. That doesn't take as long with film as it does with stones.

The balsa progression would kick it up a few notches, though. But better to master the film first, anyway. Without a good 1u edge, the balsa cannot do its job. Not having it on hand will remove the temptation to use it before your film edges are ready.

Don't be surprised if your first attempt with the film gives you an edge that surpasses your expectations. It's pretty simple and consistent. Just get the film applied correctly, hone in hand, and watch the pressure and you will get it at least by the second attempt.

 

[slim6596]

A reasonably sharp edge? Sure. Maybe a bit better than "reasonably sharp", actually. A 1u film edge should max out just slightly higher than a typical 12k Naniwa edge. And you can up your game by finishing on lather for more sharpness, or picopaper for more smoothness. Once you are maxing out on the 1u film, then try your hand at the lather trick. The idea is max out the edge first, then add lather and begin with very light pressure and gradually reduce pressure even more as you hone it on out. Usually takes a couple hundred laps. Add more lather as needed. It will start out with stiction but as you float the blade further and further off the film, it will feel like you have lost contact, but it is there. With the buffering of the lather, the scratches get shallower and shallower. When you really nail it, the sharpness jumps as if you had moved up another grit or two. It can only work when you have achieved max sharpness on the film with just water, though. While film honing is mostly a science, honing on lather is more of an art. You will get a feel for it before you are really nailing it. So stick with the basics first, but know that the process can be refined a bit more once your skills are up to the task. That doesn't take as long with film as it does with stones.

The balsa progression would kick it up a few notches, though. But better to master the film first, anyway. Without a good 1u edge, the balsa cannot do its job. Not having it on hand will remove the temptation to use it before your film edges are ready.

Don't be surprised if your first attempt with the film gives you an edge that surpasses your expectations. It's pretty simple and consistent. Just get the film applied correctly, hone in hand, and watch the pressure and you will get it at least by the second attempt.

Going for my second actual attempt tonight after I go off duty. I feel that these film sheets from Taylor Tools/Amazon aren't worth a fart in a high wind. I'm going to go at it tonight with a fresh sheet for all stages of the progression and see if that helps.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Going for my second actual attempt tonight after I go off duty. I feel that these film sheets from Taylor Tools/Amazon aren't worth a fart in a high wind. I'm going to go at it tonight with a fresh sheet for all stages of the progression and see if that helps.

You know for a rock solid fact that your bevel was properly set, right?

After only one go, the film should still be good for many more sessions. No need to change to fresh pieces.

 

[slim6596]

You know for a rock solid fact that your bevel was properly set, right?

After only one go, the film should still be good for many more sessions. No need to change to fresh pieces.

If the bevel is wrong, that's a mistake that I'll have to try to correct. Wouldn't surprise me at all that I totally destroyed the bevel Steve had set. I'll try the burr method tonight.

The films I've been using feel like the abrasives have disappeared.

 

[Slash McCoy]

If the bevel is wrong, that's a mistake that I'll have to try to correct. Wouldn't surprise me at all that I totally destroyed the bevel Steve had set. I'll try the burr method tonight.

The films I've been using feel like the abrasives have disappeared.

That's very strange. Yeah I am sure Steve's bevel was perfectly okay. You shaved with his edge, right?

Are you honing in hand, or on a bench? How much pressure? (weight of whole arm, weight of forearm, weight of hand, weight of a finger, weight of razor alone, etc)

Very strange to have film wear out so suddenly. You didn't have it upside down, did you? If that was 3M film, that is pretty much the gold standard brand. The quality is generally quite good.

What did you use for a plate, under your film?

Don't take this the wrong way, but I feel I need to be absolutely sure about where your skill and knowledge level is at, before offering more advice. Are you honing with the spine flat on the film? This is important. You should be stroking the razor edge-first, too, and to turn at the end of the stroke, you need to flip the EDGE up and over to change direction for the return stroke. The spine remains on the film.

 

[slim6596]

Honing in hand
Weight of razor, with index finger on spine to help verify (along with sight) that full length of edge is making contact (but not bearing down)

Edge first
Flipping edge up and over NOT spine

It may be sharper than I thought. Just tried the treetop test on my left forearm (hair has grown out a bit more than the other) and it lopped a few off. So.....it went about 150 laps on the strop.

Now, to wait for my facial stubble to grow enough to shave again....

 

[Slash McCoy]

Going for my second actual attempt tonight after I go off duty. I feel that these film sheets from Taylor Tools/Amazon aren't worth a fart in a high wind. I'm going to go at it tonight with a fresh sheet for all stages of the progression and see if that helps.

Just an hour ago I took delivery of a pack of that film in 30u grit. It has sort of a cheesy papery feel to it. Definitely not 3M quality there. You could be onto something; maybe that brand does suck. Sometime in the next few days I will give it a go. All my other film is 3M, Nanolaptech, or ThorLabs.

I was finally convinced to try some PSA and I got some 1u in the other day and stuck a piece on a spare plate. I will be testing that, too. A PSA /Non PSA shootout, complete with microscope pics. Maybe my almost decade long rant against sticky film was misplaced. I will say this, though. It is a lot easier to apply regular film than PSA film.

 

[Sukeroku]

A reasonably sharp edge? Sure. Maybe a bit better than "reasonably sharp", actually. A 1u film edge should max out just slightly higher than a typical 12k Naniwa edge. And you can up your game by finishing on lather for more sharpness, or picopaper for more smoothness. Once you are maxing out on the 1u film, then try your hand at the lather trick. The idea is max out the edge first, then add lather and begin with very light pressure and gradually reduce pressure even more as you hone it on out. Usually takes a couple hundred laps. Add more lather as needed. It will start out with stiction but as you float the blade further and further off the film, it will feel like you have lost contact, but it is there. With the buffering of the lather, the scratches get shallower and shallower. When you really nail it, the sharpness jumps as if you had moved up another grit or two. It can only work when you have achieved max sharpness on the film with just water, though. While film honing is mostly a science, honing on lather is more of an art. You will get a feel for it before you are really nailing it. So stick with the basics first, but know that the process can be refined a bit more once your skills are up to the task. That doesn't take as long with film as it does with stones.

The balsa progression would kick it up a few notches, though. But better to master the film first, anyway. Without a good 1u edge, the balsa cannot do its job. Not having it on hand will remove the temptation to use it before your film edges are ready.

Don't be surprised if your first attempt with the film gives you an edge that surpasses your expectations. It's pretty simple and consistent. Just get the film applied correctly, hone in hand, and watch the pressure and you will get it at least by the second attempt.

Slash McCoy, thank you again for the very detailed explanation. Just for a clarification, when you mean "finish with lather", do you mean using shaving soap lather instead of water on the 1u film? I have two blades that I plan to work with. One is a Ralf Aust that I ordered shave-ready directly from him in Germany. I have used it only three or four times. I had no real issues with it when shaving (mind you I am a wetshaving rookie with only a month under my belt) until I tried the treetop test and got almost nothing. The other is a used Tanifuji Maxfli Gold 100 bought on eBay that I had sharpened by a honemeister in Tokyo. The Tanifuji also seem to have an exceptional edge but treetopping yielded zero results. (I shaved with the Tanifuji for the first time yesterday and that Japanese grind on Swedish steel was a revelation). I think that the bevel is already set on these razors. I am wondering if I just need to bump up the sharpness on them with the 9, 3, 1u progression and some stropping. Finally, would it be OK to use the same lapping film on some high-grade Japanese kitchen knives in order to work on technique or should I use my lapping film exclusively for my razors.

 

[Slash McCoy]

I have always found 1k to be optimum for kitchen knives. Seems to have more cutting power and the edge is less fragile. Higher grits IMHO are only called for if you are trying to do some very artistic microthin slicing.

A razor that was previously sharp or is nearly sharp only needs 1u film. MAYBE you might want to reach down to 3u.

Finishing with lather is done like so. First, max out the edge with only water, on 1u film, or 12k Naniwa, or Shapton 16k. Now rinse off all swarf and slurry, and add lather. Begin honing with only the weight of the razor. You should feel the stone, and feel considerable stiction. When the stiction is quite strong even with a buffering layer of lather, give it 3 or 4 pull strokes, then a dozen or so very light regular laps. Now begin progressively and gradually reducing pressure. Add more lather as needed. The trick is to figure out how fast to reduce pressure. Keep honing. Feedback will become very faint, almost unusable. Keep going at it. It will feel like the razor is floating above the stone without touching it, eventually. Keep going anyway. This process, if you are counting laps, will take at least a couple hundred laps. How this works, obviously, is to cause the abrasive particles to cut shallower and shallower scratches. The final level of polish will be quite high. There should be no fin edge because of the light pressure. The edge will become quite highly refined, considerably above the quality of the edge coming off the same stone or film with just water. The lather consistency is a variable to adjust, and frankly it is just very traditional, more so than glycerine or dish soap or oil.

But before you can get any real benefit from the lather trick, you need to be able to max out your edge with more pedestrian honing. Otherwise, lather honing is just polishing a turd, as they say.

Treetopping results are quite variable from person to person. You might have to use HHT. There are threads on HHT, the Hanging Hair Test. One article on coticules.be is considered particularly definitive. You could also go back and read the Treetopping thread and pick up whatever you might have missed on the first gothrough.