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Freshly roasted coffee - how fresh is good enough?

For those who regularly make espresso....or for those who home roast or buy from a coffee specialty retailer, how fresh do you like your coffee? All brewing methods benefit from freshly roasted coffee, but espresso brewing especially so. Coffee beans don't spoil in the traditional sense but slowly dry out and loose their aromatics. Becoming bland.

For years I have been brewing coffee less than 3-4 weeks old but today I made an espresso from 2 month old coffee (roasted 8.5 weeks ago). I could tell it had started to dry out a little but it held up quite well. It made me rethink the idea that in order to drink espresso at home and not live in a big city one needed to home roast. That one could buy freshly roasted coffee in bulk (to save shipping costs) about every 6-8 weeks and enjoy it nearly as much as the person drinking 10 day old coffee. What has been your experience?
 
For those who regularly make espresso....or for those who home roast or buy from a coffee specialty retailer, how fresh do you like your coffee? All brewing methods benefit from freshly roasted coffee, but espresso brewing especially so. Coffee beans don't spoil in the traditional sense but slowly dry out and loose their aromatics. Becoming bland.

For years I have been brewing coffee less than 3-4 weeks old but today I made an espresso from 2 month old coffee (roasted 8.5 weeks ago). I could tell it had started to dry out a little but it held up quite well. It made me rethink the idea that in order to drink espresso at home and not live in a big city one needed to home roast. That one could buy freshly roasted coffee in bulk (to save shipping costs) about every 6-8 weeks and enjoy it nearly as much as the person drinking 10 day old coffee. What has been your experience?
Two weeks is my tops. It's still drinkable of course, but not the same. Crema turns blonde and flavours wash out. A friend recently brought two pounds as a host gift when they came to visit. But it was already two weeks old. I switched to hario pourover to finish it off because I felt that it bore the staleness better than espresso. But, bottom line, I suspect that the real reason for my dissatisfaction with the Coffee had as much to do with the inferior beans that were roasted. Freshness is important but it is just one factor of good coffee.
 
Interesting that you top out at 2 weeks. That was my target once I started home roasting, though over the past couple of years I began to approach 3 weeks and then 3 weeks+ since I started roasting different coffees at one sitting in order to save time and get more variety day-to-day and cup-to-cup. I found the coffee held up well enough for 3 weeks and I rarely had any around for as long as month.

Though I agree freshness is just one factor. The quality of the beans (their origin and how they were processed) and the way they were roasted obviously matters a lot.
 

TexLaw

Fussy Evil Genius
Sure, some beans are still decent after a few weeks, but I still prefer beans that have been roasted within a couple weeks. After that, flavor tends to flatten out. Some beans hang in there longer, but not by much. Denser beans seem to lay longer. No matter, it's still often better coffee than a lot of store bought.

It depends a bit on the roast, too. Darker roasts seem to hang in there longer.

No matter what, it's always a joy to start a new, more freshly roasted batch after finishing an older one. It's night and day.
 
I've been searching for my favorite beans and have stayed with relatively local roasters for this reason. I want to have as fresh beans as I can. I've been using beans roasted in upstate NY near Woodstock and buying them at one of their two NJ stores on the premise that they were delivering freshly roasted beans at least every week. But the particular roast wasn't what I'm looking for. I found another one nearby and he roasts the beans right in the store so I'm going to have to pay him a visit. I'm the only one who drinks coffee in my house and am typically brewing about 20 to 25 grams of coffee per day using a french press. But I don't brew coffee every day so a pound lasts me about a month. I'm really trying to stick with beans that are as fresh as possible to start with and then seeing what their different roasts taste like. I go to the trouble to grind my beans with a Baratza Virtuoso for french press. I weigh my beans and water. I was at a 1:15 ratio but am going to a 1:12 ratio because the roast I recently bought is a little lighter than I had anticipated. The label was misleading. Anyway, since I've begun taking things seriously such as monitoring the water temperature before pouring it into the carafe, timing the brew, scooping off the grounds that are floating on top after 4 minutes and then letting it sit for another 5 minutes, my coffee in the cup has improved immensely. I'm going to try this new local roaster who roasts in the store. I'm interested in trying his Mocha Java blend.
 
In addition to age, how the beans are stored might also contribute to shelf life. I keep my roasted beans in an airscape container and in a cool dark place. Usually a couple days after I roast I burp to the container and the coffee seems pretty good even as I am using up the last of the 2kg roast. I normally roast every 10-15 days (although last batch was 3 roasts in one week because my son asked for an emergency coffee shipment to help survive midterms or something...) Every once in awhile I go 2.5 weeks between roasts.

Disclaimer: I am certainly not an expert. My last roast is producing espresso that has a serious chocolate taste to it and I have no idea how to replicate that. I find that each batch is a bit different and the household likes it, I just never quite know what I am going to get until I start pullin shots.

Ruckin.
 

TexLaw

Fussy Evil Genius
I thought roasted coffee needs to air out for 2 week to become optimal. Not sure where I picked up this info.

You might have heard "two days" but are thinking "two weeks."

It is a matter of taste and function, though. If you ever get to participate in an Ethiopian coffee ceremony call, you'll have beans roasted, ground, and brewed all in the same (long) sitting.
 
You might have heard "two days" but are thinking "two weeks."

It is a matter of taste and function, though. If you ever get to participate in an Ethiopian coffee ceremony call, you'll have beans roasted, ground, and brewed all in the same (long) sitting.

Ethiopian coffee being fresher and acidic perhaps suits the quick consumption.
 
Sure, some beans are still decent after a few weeks, but I still prefer beans that have been roasted within a couple weeks. After that, flavor tends to flatten out. Some beans hang in there longer, but not by much. Denser beans seem to lay longer. No matter, it's still often better coffee than a lot of store bought.

It depends a bit on the roast, too. Darker roasts seem to hang in there longer.

No matter what, it's always a joy to start a new, more freshly roasted batch after finishing an older one. It's night and day.

I agree with this. It's been a while since I was taking the time to really concentrate on making good espresso for the sake of it - the kit I was using made this hard and there were plenty of sink shots. But I love a really freshly roasted coffee bursting with crema. The light roasts I enjoy would tail off by 10 days and be less usable by 14... This may have been adversely influenced by the grinder though; I imagine better extractions would be possible with finer control of grind / dose.

The tip on airtight containers is good. I paid a fair bit for a surprisingly temperamental Japanese vacuum bean container which, when it works, seems to preserve beans a few days longer. Another tip is simply to freeze the beans you plan to use. Let them thaw before opening the container or condensation will ruin them!

Luke
 
While everyone has a different palate, I can assure you most of the info on this thread is simply wrong. Sorry to be the snob, but coffee is made of organic matter. The darker you roast it the faster you are accelerating it’s degradation and oxidation. Therefore, the lighter you roast, the longer your coffee should last at peak flavor. This isn’t always the case because not everyone shares the same level of roasting skills, but it’s a good general rule. Fresh roasted coffee will always taste roasty so even for “espresso roast” a couple days off roast is best up to I’d say two weeks to a month tops. For light roasts, especially say Nordic style roasts, I would wait AT LEAST two weeks. I’ve had many coffees lately that peak between 3-5 weeks. Grinder always matters and it should always be the largest part of your coffee hardware budget.
 
For reference
 

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When good coffee gets old it doesn't become undrinkable, just smoother and evens out. You may even find it more palatable if you can bypass the prejudice. Ultimately it depends if you enjoy coffee holistically and or do you have to constantly deconstruct it.
 
While everyone has a different palate, I can assure you most of the info on this thread is simply wrong. Sorry to be the snob, but coffee is made of organic matter. The darker you roast it the faster you are accelerating it’s degradation and oxidation. Therefore, the lighter you roast, the longer your coffee should last at peak flavor. This isn’t always the case because not everyone shares the same level of roasting skills, but it’s a good general rule. Fresh roasted coffee will always taste roasty so even for “espresso roast” a couple days off roast is best up to I’d say two weeks to a month tops. For light roasts, especially say Nordic style roasts, I would wait AT LEAST two weeks. I’ve had many coffees lately that peak between 3-5 weeks. Grinder always matters and it should always be the largest part of your coffee hardware budget.

I don't understand what you say here:

"the lighter you roast, the longer your coffee should last at peak flavor."

To me that's a relative comparison based on a false premise. Surely the roaster picks a lighter or darker roast according to a. what's most suitable for that particular bean and b. personal preference? Yes, I accept your logic that the flavours of a lighter roast may last relatively longer than the same bean roasted darker; but what's the point of longevity of flavour, if that flavour is not what the roaster or consumer wants?

I'm genuinely not being challenging for the sake of it: when I bought my Silvia years ago I did all the reading on the forums and websites, bought the right kit, used and played with far better kit, and struck up friendships with people who run (very) successful cafes and roasteries. I try to follow this received wisdom, and I've been complimented on what I do by people who know far better than me.

Again, it's really subjective but when I was regularly making espresso for the sake of espresso (as opposed to a shot for a long black or Americano), I reliably found that freshly roasted beans would tail off in terms of crema, flavour and mouthfeel within two weeks. For other drinks, it mattered far less and I'd happily use beans over a month old, just upping the dose to compensate for the dreadful grinder I had.

I made the point above that perhaps, with a superior grinder and finer control of grind and dose, I may have continued to enjoy my espressos for longer. But, that would have surely involved manipulating variables well outside the 'normal' parameters of espresso making. I don't know, I'm certainly not an expert. But if you have the knowledge on this, it would be great for you to take the time to explain exactly why we're all simply wrong - I don't feel your comparison holds much water but accept I could be misunderstanding your point.

ETA: also not sure what you're trying to convey in your pic. But, nice machine.
 
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The pic is to show the caliber of coffee I work with, but thanks. And it’s not relatively longer. You exponentially increase oxidation and the break down of organic matter the longer you roast coffee.

While you make an excellent point that the roast is often dictated by the bean and what characteristics you aim to emphasize from that bean. However, that often doesn’t change the roast from say Nordic light to oily dark.

Also, I agree with you. I couldn’t care less how long peak flavor lasts if it isn’t what I want from that coffee to begin with, but as roasted coffee ages, it degasses, releasing CO2 and further breaking down its organic matter. My point isn’t that your espresso ISN’T falling flat after two weeks, it’s that the freshness of coffee is what is relative. I encourage you to systematically “cup” your coffees (the standardized way to evaluate coffee) over time and see what I mean. You may well be right that your equipment hinders you from being able to get the most from lighter roasts as they age, but inherently, lighter roasts hit peak flavor later than darker.

I apologize for coming off so abrasive, but I would like to suggest for everyone to try coffee outside of their comfort zone. You may surprise yourself and you may also find the same characteristics you love of your darker roasted beans in a more pleasant, complex, less bitter profile in something roasted medium or
 
@Teryaki, I may be roasting my beans too dark. Right now I aim to drop them a at (or just slightly before second crack). Since I just roast for my household I have no need to be very consistent from roast to roast. Some roasts seem quite floral while others have strong chocolate overtones.

It may be seasonal as the roaster is in a 0-30C room depending on season. While I can bring the roster up to the same temperature the beans are the ambient temp. I don't cup my roasts as I have never been shown how and am not sure how I would do a critical evaluation. Do you have any recommendations resources for learning how adjusting critical points in the roast profile will change the flavor profile of the shot?

Ruckin

.ps - Is that a slayer steam?
 
I apologize for coming off so abrasive, but I would like to suggest for everyone to try coffee outside of their comfort zone. You may surprise yourself and you may also find the same characteristics you love of your darker roasted beans in a more pleasant, complex, less bitter profile in something roasted medium or

Thank you, great explanation. That's given me a lot of food for thought. Challenging perspectives is good, and it's too easy to dismiss a different point of view without proper consideration :) Were you going to say roasted light at the end there? Looks like your message was unintentionally clipped.

The pic is to show the caliber of coffee I work with, but thanks. And it’s not relatively longer. You exponentially increase oxidation and the break down of organic matter the longer you roast coffee.

While you make an excellent point that the roast is often dictated by the bean and what characteristics you aim to emphasize from that bean. However, that often doesn’t change the roast from say Nordic light to oily dark.

Also, I agree with you. I couldn’t care less how long peak flavor lasts if it isn’t what I want from that coffee to begin with, but as roasted coffee ages, it degasses, releasing CO2 and further breaking down its organic matter. My point isn’t that your espresso ISN’T falling flat after two weeks, it’s that the freshness of coffee is what is relative. I encourage you to systematically “cup” your coffees (the standardized way to evaluate coffee) over time and see what I mean. You may well be right that your equipment hinders you from being able to get the most from lighter roasts as they age, but inherently, lighter roasts hit peak flavor later than darker.

I do tend to prefer lighter roasts personally - but have sometimes found these hit and miss for espresso, esp. WRT single origin coffees, and massively dependent on the applied skill of the roaster. It's certainly also true that there's had to be an element of luck in getting good espresso into my cup, as the capability of my previous grinder and machine were not ideal. A little like the inverse of the industrial accident 'Swiss Cheese' model if you've ever seen that: many things had to be right before I'd get a decent shot out :) My recent purchases of a good E61 HX and an OE Pharos should open up many new possibilities, and I'm looking forward to learning how to manipulate the variables of dose / grind with a degree of skill rather than luck.

I'm intrigued by the idea of cupping over time; I've cupped coffee once or twice to choose a particular blend, bean or preferred style of roast but have never thought of cupping the same roast over time to examine how the flavour changes. Cupping isn't something I've done very seriously, and like @ruckin I'd appreciate any pointers on how to cup in the most repeatable and optimal manner.


@TeryakiSome roasts seem quite floral while others have strong chocolate overtones.

Is that with the same bean / blend? If so that's really interesting, if you're roasting to a similar level each time and getting such a wide range of flavours.
 
I think from a roasting/espresso perspective I don't even rise up to level of someone that knows what they are doing...

I roast 2kg once every two weeks not 3-4 roasts a day every day... For beans my brother and I split three bags from a local distributor and have am roasting a blend of Brasil, Sumatra, and Sidamo. I try to be consistent with how I roast but my garage (and bean storage temps) can be freezing in the winter up to 90F or more in the summer. Sometimes my phidget gets wonky so I need to do the occasional roast using the analog thermometer on the front of the roaster and smell/appearance of the beans. I guess that is a roundabout way of saying that I have a long ways to go prior to being remotely consistent.

I also know that my current grinder is not doing me any favors (it is an older Mazzer mini) but I have ground hundreds of lbs of beans. I am currently saving for a large conical grinder of some sort, probably a Compak but in reality it depends on what I can find locally used.

Now to answer the question :) I am surprised at the range of flavors but it isn't like I have chocolate one roast and blueberries the next... it is more like I get a string of chocolate followed but nothing in particular and then months later I will pull a shot and say hey this is blueberry or floral.

Coffee at my house is not consistent. Someday I might get to the level where I can be intentional in my flavor profiles rather than making pretty good coffee and finding out what I have done once it is in the cup.

Ruckin (inconsistent but not bad coffee)
 
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