How To Use a Pasted Balsa Strop

[Steve56]

Shavettes are a great option for travel. I usually just take 2 fresh straights and a strop, I can get two weeks at least out of one and about 60 shaves each if I’m not too picky. And you don’t really need a strop, you can strop on your hand or arm, a leather journal cover... But there’s another reason I travel with straights vs shavettes, I take a fistful of Dollars and hand them out as jnat edge gifts to my wet shaving friends, they’re just not impressed with a pack of DE blades!

 

[steveclarkus]

I’m already in too many rabbit holes Slash, and it took a long time just to develop a suspicion with my jnats. And I prefer natural edges to synths and pastes, although the difference is maybe not as large as folks might think reading the B&B honing subforum.

i wouldn’t even mention it except for knowing how a burr forms and talking with Bill and others, and I thought that it might be fun for the paste people to see if they could tell any difference over time.

I’ve used jnat edges and while quite sharp still preferred the diamond pasted edge. I’ve not experienced harshness in the pasted edges others mention. I have found Eskiltuna steel difficult to achieve the maximum edge due to the hardness of the steel but I keep working on them. Overall,
I get very sharp and comfortable edges using the Method. That is the way I began and have never found a reason to change. I
Must admit though that I am in no way a hobby honer. Honing is simply something that must be done and I don’t enjoy it any more than I enjoy washing the car. I am happiest when it is done and I touch up after every shave so I don’t have to do it again. If I’m feeling lazy, I use a shavette. My primary interest is simply a great shave and always with a straight razor as they give the best.

 

[Twelvefret]

I hold the balsa at @ a 45 degree angle to minimize the pressure.

By nature, I have a soft touch on stones, films, and stropping. Nothing better or more soothing than holding the stone under narrow steam of water.

For me the shavette sharp is the goal as I don’t want to have go over the same spot repeatedly. Therefore, use the diamond. Not to be disrespectful to anyone who has a different need/want .

 

[Twelvefret]

I’ve used jnat edges and while quite sharp still preferred the diamond pasted edge. I’ve not experienced harshness in the pasted edges others mention. I have found Eskiltuna steel difficult to achieve the maximum edge due to the hardness of the steel but I keep working on them. Overall,
I get very sharp and comfortable edges using the Method. That is the way I began and have never found a reason to change. I
Must admit though that I am in no way a hobby honer. Honing is simply something that must be done and I don’t enjoy it any more than I enjoy washing the car. I am happiest when it is done and I touch up after every shave so I don’t have to do it again. If I’m feeling lazy, I use a shavette. My primary interest is simply a great shave and always with a straight razor as they give the best.

Agreed, the diamond edge is not harsh, or more harsh than a Yellow Feather or Artis
Club, which are not harsh for me .

 

[Steve56]

I don’t think that ‘harsh’ is the right word. I can certainly make synth edges that are perfectly comfortable to shave with, no complaints whatever. I would assume that the same is true of pastes, maybe even better because most of the substrates usually give a little, or a lot.

Pastes were almost universal in Europe, and many said - and still do - that a razor should never touch a stone once it leaves the factory. The problem with pastes on leather is that over time the bevel becomes a ‘U’ instead of a ‘V’ and it won’t even cut you much less cut hair. These are the ones that I get on eBay, lol.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Wire edges are caused, at least on stones, by three things:

Aggressive grit (true of paste)
Too much pressure
Spending too much time on one side of the blade before flipping

That last one is the relevant one. Apparently a long stroke can, depending on pressure and grit, begin to create a fin or unstable steel. This is pretty well known, it’s the foundation of the burr method of bevel setting, put pressure on one side only and pretty soon you’ll have a burr. The way to hone off a burr or fin is short, light stokes flipping the blade each stroke. Balsa may enough ‘give’ to it to prevent this though, IDK.

On jnats, I can’t hone up two blades one on a long hone and one on a short one and immediately see much difference, but over the years it seems my short stones yield some really good edges. This could just be ‘luck of the draw’ on the particular hones, but having someone use a 140mm pasted balsa for a while would be interesting. The ‘standard’ jnat barber size is 136x80mm.

Once you get down below .25u diamond, and it is embedded in the balsa instead of scooting around on top of it, it is not aggressive at all. And anyway, if it was gooped and slathered on top, it would mostly give a slurry effect and actually fight wire or fin edge, not promote it. At the same time of course it would promote a slightly blunted apex. So Methodeers don't do that.

Pressure, yeah, heavy pressure absolutely does promote fin edge. (I pretty much lump fin and wire edge together as there is essentially no difference). Light, well regulated pressure is another cornerstone of The Method. That is the main reason that honing in hand is preferred.

Spending too long on one side allows a burr to build up, yes. However The Method itself discourages formation or persistence of fin edge once you are into the balsa stages, and also I don't think that simply doubling stroke length has any significant effect. When we are setting a bevel and going for a burr, we usually use heavy pressure, about the weight of the arm to get the process started, and go at least 50 circle strokes or whatever before testing and/or flipping. I don't think there is much room for comparison to alternating laps with the weight of the razor alone, even with a longer stroke. One could test this. I am confident that such testing would either favor the 12", or more likely be inconclusive.

A honer who is used to small rocks will naturally have a smoother and more consistent stroke on the smaller stone. And vice versa, I am sure. I do know that it feels quite unnatural for me to hone on anything shorter than about 8" or strop on anything shorter than 12". Of course, that is what I am used to. Someone else might well be more experienced at short stroking and better at it. That could explain a slight difference in edges from diferent length stones. Could be that your shorter Jnats just happen to be better finishers, in spite of using the same naguras. I only own one Jnat and have never owned others, so I am far from expert on them, therefore YMMV.

 

[kohalajohn]

Shavettes are a great option for travel. I usually just take 2 fresh straights and a strop, I can get two weeks at least out of one and about 60 shaves each if I’m not too picky. And you don’t really need a strop, you can strop on your hand or arm, a leather journal cover... But there’s another reason I travel with straights vs shavettes, I take a fistful of Dollars and hand them out as jnat edge gifts to my wet shaving friends, they’re just not impressed with a pack of DE blades!

That is an interesting idea. Gifting gold dollars to DE shavers. I have a few friends doing DE and I might do that.

But what do you say when they ask you how to maintain it? It's not an answer, it's a multi beer conversation. It's a lifetime hobby.

Tell them to go to badger and blade? Whipped dog? I would think that DE shavers expect sharp, so if you're going to give them a gd, you probably also have to give them a piece of your old second hand diamond balsa and leather.

What was your experience? Did giving them a gd get them into straights? I think if you didn't also help them out with maintenance they'd drop it once it went dull, and go back to the convenience of DE.

 

[Twelvefret]

We former manufactured blade users do have an appreciation or tolerance for sharp. I'm surprised the reaction experienced of SR users the first time with a shavette. It's like "hello"!!

I think for me when I talk about sharp I really mean effective or efficient. What makes the blade comfortable is that is does not need to stay on the skin long. Just a pass or two plus detail work. What makes an edge uncomfortable is being ineffective.

 

[Steve56]

That is an interesting idea. Gifting gold dollars to DE shavers. I have a few friends doing DE and I might do that.

But what do you say when they ask you how to maintain it? It's not an answer, it's a multi beer conversation. It's a lifetime hobby.

Tell them to go to badger and blade? Whipped dog? I would think that DE shavers expect sharp, so if you're going to give them a gd, you probably also have to give them a piece of your old second hand diamond balsa and leather.

What was your experience? Did giving them a gd get them into straights? I think if you didn't also help them out with maintenance they'd drop it once it went dull, and go back to the convenience of DE.

I never really follow up, I’m not proselytizing straights. And sometimes I give 2-3 to people who pass them on so I never really see the final recipients. If they like the edge, there are plenty of resources here and in Europe for straight razor shavers. If I know that someone wants DE sharp I can do that on a jnat, but usually the point in a good jnat edge is to have a smoother, more forgiving edge. A good jnat edge is like between a coti edge and a high-grit synth. Let ‘em try something different and see if they like it - no worries either way, it’s a $5 razor.

It’s just a nice thing to do that shows that you appreciate your friends and other wet shavers.

A honer who is used to small rocks will naturally have a smoother and more consistent stroke on the smaller stone.

Would this also not be a good thing for pasted balsa?

 

[Steve56]

Bill was the one who mentioned the long stroke beginning to form a fin, I don’t use a microscope so I’m taking him at his word and he’s usually right.

BTW, that pico paper thing isn’t working for me, I can’t tell any difference.

 

[steveclarkus]

I never really follow up, I’m not proselytizing straights. And sometimes I give 2-3 to people who pass them on so I never really see the final recipients. If they like the edge, there are plenty of resources here and in Europe for straight razor shavers. If I know that someone wants DE sharp I can do that on a jnat, but usually the point in a good jnat edge is to have a smoother, more forgiving edge. A good jnat edge is like between a coti edge and a high-grit synth. Let ‘em try something different and see if they like it - no worries either way, it’s a $5 razor.

It’s just a nice thing to do that shows that you appreciate your friends and other wet shavers.




Would this also not be a good thing for pasted balsa?

Try it and let us know.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Would this also not be a good thing for pasted balsa?

For someone who has never honed on 11" of film and finished on 12" of balsa, maybe someone who has mostly used small (under 8" long) coticules or Jnats, maybe so. But if you take two total newbies and give one 6" of stone or film, and 6" of balsa, and give the other one the full size goods, I think the one rocking the big stuff is going to get better edges sooner, certainly with lower lap counts and faster times. Feel free to experiment, and tell us what you find and how you found it. I have always used a foot of balsa and never made a fin edge with it. If you do, you are doing something way different from the rest of us. If I couldn't get balsa in 12" or longer pieces, I probably would just use my shavette. I am spoiled now.

 

[Twelvefret]

My experience was first films, then stones, and then diamond paste. What about a progression with all forms rather than just one or the other. My last bevel to shave progression included both of my stones half way through and this edge is wonderful. Would it have been wonderful had I stayed on the films? I am thinking about taking one of my razors back to 30mu film using the Corticule and Thuringian mid way just to see if it makes a difference.

 

[Steve56]

I’ve tried films. I think Seraphim sent me some. They’re OK, a really thin synth, I didn’t have any issues with them other than finishing on them was just another synth edge. But if a good shave is your goal, it will certainly do that, and do it well. I don’t have any doubts that following it up with paste on a proper substrate will kick it up a notch.

The edge that we end up with, film, paste, jnat, coti, thuri, .... if they’re properly done by someone that understands the finisher, there’s not a huge difference, except maybe in in-shave smoothness - which is important to many folks. Can you tell a difference? Sure, I can, but once again, I could shave off a Shapton 8k HC (different from the HR) with no problem.

At the lower grits, nothing beats a Shapton HR Glass. They were designed to cut wear-resistant, semi-stainless Lie-Nielsen A2 plane steel and if your goal is to minimize the time that you spend developing an edge for finish, there is no peer that I know of. If you’re a knife honer (I am) and have the latest ZDP and SLD steels, the Shapton Glass HR is your friend. They’re bad for noobs because too much pressure on a Glass HR will make bad things happen more quickly. In my earlier days, I used Shapton Pros/Kuromaku at low grit and still do when I don’t feel the need for speed, they’re an excellent hone.

But people that use lower grits are honers. I understand @steveclarkus comments that to him honing is like washing the car. If I were like that I’d send razors out for honing once, then maintain them forever with one piece of balsa and one paste. Once you want to set a bevel or fix a problem, lol, you’re a honer, you can just still see the top of the rabbit hole.

 

[Steve56]

For someone who has never honed on 11" of film and finished on 12" of balsa, maybe someone who has mostly used small (under 8" long) coticules or Jnats, maybe so. But if you take two total newbies and give one 6" of stone or film, and 6" of balsa, and give the other one the full size goods, I think the one rocking the big stuff is going to get better edges sooner, certainly with lower lap counts and faster times. Feel free to experiment, and tell us what you find and how you found it. I have always used a foot of balsa and never made a fin edge with it. If you do, you are doing something way different from the rest of us. If I couldn't get balsa in 12" or longer pieces, I probably would just use my shavette. I am spoiled now.

Agree, long is better for noobs, and if you like, you can just use 4” of that 12”.

I’m interested that you didn’t make a fin on 12” pasted balsa. Did you check it with a microscope? I’m curious because it might mean that the balsa has enough give to kill the fin.

 

[Steve56]

Another inquiry @Slash McCoy can you make a fin on pasted balsa - if you try? And if so how do you do it?

 

[Twelvefret]

Washing a car is just as necessary as honing, but it's not something we all consider entertainment.

@steveclarkus has honed dozens of razors for international members and mailed them at his expense. He's probably given away more than I have in my collection.

When does someone cease to be a noob? What do you call someone who finds $7 razors off ebay and shaves with them? I call them someone who knows how to hone.

 

[Steve56]

When you’re not a noob? Send your edges to Slash, Bill, Alex, Seraphim, and when they tell you that you’re good, you probably are.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Agree, long is better for noobs, and if you like, you can just use 4” of that 12”.

I’m interested that you didn’t make a fin on 12” pasted balsa. Did you check it with a microscope? I’m curious because it might mean that the balsa has enough give to kill the fin.

It is difficult to create a fin edge when the pressure is light enough. Yes I often have a look at my edges under a microscope. Also, the pull strokes strip off any "edge boogers" that hang on after removing a burr, when honing from scratch. I generally do a few pull strokes at the end of the bevel setting stage, and at the 1u film stage. Then also at the .1u balsa stage, whether it is the finish on a full honing, or daily post shave maintenance. Pretty much precludes any edge artifacts. But even without the pull strokes it is pretty hard to get a fin edge. Part of this is because the diamond, though very fine and barely exposed, cuts what it touches rather than displacing it, I think. But I have also gone 400 or more laps with iron oxide, and no fin edge. I examined that edge quite closely, as I was trying to prove once and for all that CrOx/FeOx doesn't work like diamond. As a matter of fact I did finally get an edge that compared reasonably well to the Method edge, using The Method but with the green and red pastes instead of diamond. It took about 10x the normal lap count, though. Anyway, no, 12" balsa prepared and used according to The Method is severely unlikely to cause a fin edge, at any lap count. Likely reasons for failure would be pressure too heavy, resting the balsa on a bench, applying too much or not rubbing it in and wiping it clean with a soft cotton rag, or "rolling" the edge. Experienced honers would be unlikely to make any of those mistakes, if the newbs who have learned to hone this way didn't make them.

I don't check every edge with a microscope, only some/many. I do shave with every edge I make though, because I do not take in outside honing and only gift or sell a small handful of razors every year and those are all shave tested before they go to their new homes.

 

[Steve56]

Slash, a friend in town that I hone for asked me how that I honed his razor. I told him. He showed my PM to his wife who said ‘all those words are English, but I have no idea what he’s saying.’