It's not your fault . I was walking home from the bar and using voice to text , so I'm sure it's pretty difficult to understand. The gist of what I was trying to say is that there's a lot of ways to hone a razor, it's a fairly simple task to accomplish and doesn't require a lot of specialized technique or equipment , but you can always introduce specialized technique or equipment into it . And where I think most people go wrong is confusing the advice technique and equipment that is meant for restoring a razor that has been abused with the advice technique and equipment meant for maintaining a razor or sharpening a razor that has not been abused. If someone picks up a razor that was put away sharp and simply sat for a few decades, it's going to be a relatively simple procedure to get it back to sharp. But if you pick up the razor that someone bread knifed down to a nub or has a large chip or some other serious defect , that's a whole other class of work that needs to be done . As razors tend to be fairly thin ground relative to a lot of other tools it's not especially difficult to do, but a lot of razor honers might not know what to expect if they haven't done in the past. So a lot of these technique and demonstrations and studies that people do is to establish and remind others that there are a lot of methods to accomplish what we're trying to accomplish , and not everyone needs the same tools or techniques , there's many ways to achieve a sharp razor
Honing Question
- Thread starter learnintheropes
- Start date
Sorry my original comment was a bit off-topic so I’ll try to address this again. I think that being successful using doc’s method depends on not starting the dilution process until after the bevel is fully set which is verified by using the tomato. I think what may be going on is that you might be diluting too early but I could be wrong because there’s so much variance between razors & stones. Hope this is more on-topic to your original question.
There is a difference between setting a bevel, like truly setting a bevel and jointing an edge by lightly running on the side of a stone or whatever. A jointed edge will come back fairly quickly. Truly setting a bevel from scratch, that's not something I would be using a finishing grade Jnat with DN slurry.
True. Setting a bevel is not a fun task even on a coarse hone... making yourself muscle your way through it on a finisher is masochism. That's kind of what I was trying to (less succinctly) get across when I mentioned a damaged razor vs a disused razor. If you're honing a disused razor, there's a lot of techniques you wouldn't want to use to fix a damaged razor.
I think for the most part doc is just lightly running the edges across a glass or the edge of the stone. Definitely not hardcore bevel setting...
Exactly
Agree.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Thank you, sir. Makes perfect sense.
Much of what makes sense to me as a not well seasoned but getting better honer is contained in the quotation from Jarrod Connerty at Superior Shave who said something which has stuck with me.
"Honing’s about what you’re feeling with any one part of the edge at any one time on any one part of the stone."
This, to me, covers a lot of territory and answers a lot of questions and solves a lot of problems. Overlooking or overriding what you're feeling as you hone causes problems, as I see it.
Happy shaves,
Jim
Funny how what the experts think is gospel
I have only used a finishing JNAT once after glassing an edge with the help of a DMT slurry. It's a small, powerhouse of stone purchased from a well known member. It took a few rounds of slurry to get the edge back but it turned out fine in the end. If I want to due the DMT slurry thing I do it after a 1k chosera. In my experience a good JNAT finisher's DMT slurry should remove most of those scratches pretty easily after a few minutes. slurry should darken after just a couple of circles. That said I don't typically use the method as I like to use nagura progressions (its fun) or just take it to a JNAT after an 8k synthetic stone. Honestly, do whatever you enjoy most I say. Let's face it, there are faster ways to shave, but I have found none more gratifying, especially when using natural hones.
So, my coticule makes slurry using only the razor. @Basil said holding under water is the way to go.
"jointing" an edge is a mystery to me.
Why would anyone willingly do that to a razor?
Just use the stone.
Why would anyone willingly do that to a razor?
Just use the stone.
I know what you mean. I guess it's a different way of thinking about the edge.
You'll have seen that video of the Revisor honer doing it on a coticule.
No I haven't but I have never been a proponent of it. It makes no sense.
I’ll search
Another thing that may be worth noting within the context of doc’s videos is that in most of the videos in which he mutes the edge & brings it back on a single stone it’s most often an attempt to demonstrate the relative speed of the stone rather than endorsing it as an overall honing method. He also has been noted for stating that he does a conventional synth progression up to 5-8k followed by jnat finishing. So even doc is known to approach honing from a few different strategies.
Thank you. His random ever which way strokes do not resonate with me. And the dulling.....well !!!
Do you follow this method? How does it work??
One way to do it:
No need to dull the edge.
Don't use the jnat until you are up to about 4k.
If you need to bevel set, use the burr method. atoma 1200 perhaps. lots of laps until you feel the burr.
Then up to 4k or 5k. Use synths or shaptons or whatever you have, to get there.
Then a worn atoma 1200 on the jnat to build slurry. As you hone, the edges of the particles will slightly dull and it will become a less aggressive cutter. Which makes it like you are moving up a progression.
And you lighten pressure over time. Which also makes it like you are moving up a progression. Super light at the end.
And as a new honer, lap very slowly and carefully and build awareness that the whole edge is getting attention. You may have to start with the stone on a table and a finger of your off hand gently holding down the middle of the razor. Eventually you can use just one hand.
Best of luck. I have found in my brief three year experience here that honing technique is far more important than which stones I use. Eventually we find one system we like and then over years get better and better at it.
No need to dull the edge.
Don't use the jnat until you are up to about 4k.
If you need to bevel set, use the burr method. atoma 1200 perhaps. lots of laps until you feel the burr.
Then up to 4k or 5k. Use synths or shaptons or whatever you have, to get there.
Then a worn atoma 1200 on the jnat to build slurry. As you hone, the edges of the particles will slightly dull and it will become a less aggressive cutter. Which makes it like you are moving up a progression.
And you lighten pressure over time. Which also makes it like you are moving up a progression. Super light at the end.
And as a new honer, lap very slowly and carefully and build awareness that the whole edge is getting attention. You may have to start with the stone on a table and a finger of your off hand gently holding down the middle of the razor. Eventually you can use just one hand.
Best of luck. I have found in my brief three year experience here that honing technique is far more important than which stones I use. Eventually we find one system we like and then over years get better and better at it.
I don't kill edges, I don't joint edges. If the edge doesn't look right, if it's getting too feathery and overcooked then I just raise more slurry on the jnat and it's gone. Maybe that's why I prefer Jnats, I find them more forgiving and gentler to the steel than synthetics.
