Vocabulary rant

[davent]

Never heard the term glottal 't' before. Up here in Canada it's regular 't' sound in the word examples.

In 2011 i had nerve reassignment surgery where the nerve from the right side of my tongue was moved to perhaps undertake new duties. Made a big mess of trying to manipulate, and chew food, eat was a struggle and threw speech into a disarray. The regular 't' sound where the glottal 't' is found in the video's word list took months to get a bit of a handle on, could not get my tongue to the roof of my mouth and back to produce that 't'. Cool seeing the animation of the tongue just as i had visualized what i had to get my tongue to do. Sounds like for quite a few months i was sounding American, could only get that glottal 't' to sound.

Still need to speak at an easy pace, quietly, relaxed and flat or my speech becomes a spitty garbled mess, that 't' will be a major issue.

Thanks for the video Rob!
dave

 

[Doc4]

I completely lost faith in the presenter.

You probably didn't have many complementary things to say about him.

 

[emwolf]

You probably didn't have many complementary things to say about him.

 

[EL SOFA]

I was in a sales presentation and they had a slide for products that were "complimentary" for the main sales item. I completely lost faith in the presenter.

I learned something just now... Thanks!

 

[emwolf]

Is there a difference between a "glottal stop" and a "glottal t"?

Tells me that a glottal t is the proper pronunciation in American English for "cotton," although if one pronounces it as a "regular t" it is not an error.

I guess what I meant was a glottal stop instead of a glottal t.

 

[Go West Young Man]

I've been living in the US for almost 20 years, and that glottal stop in word like mountain still grate on my eat every time. It doesn't help that the California pronunciation completely loses the T altogether ("mow-ehn")

 

[John Rose]

"Hone in on" makes me want to reach through the TV and slap the speaker.

Actually, if I recall, there is an interesting history to the double negative in English. Other languages use it as a negative and I am not sure it was always thought of as incorrect in English. Moreover, the contention that a double negative is perceived as a positive, seems to me largely not so. I think most double negative constructions are not ambiguous. I would say still incorrect though, perhaps on the level of saying "ain't."

Lecturer: "A double negative means a positive, but a double positive still means a positive."
Heckler: "Yeah, right!"

Not vocabulary but punctuation
the over use of the apostrophe
like
1980's

Agreed.
Also, the '80s is correct, but not the 80's because in the first case the apostrophe stands in for the absent "19".

 

[Rhody]

"Hone in on" makes me want to reach through the TV and slap the speaker.


Lecturer: "A double negative means a positive, but a double positive still means a positive."
Heckler: "Yeah, right!"

Agreed.
Also, the '80s is correct, but not the 80's because in the first case the apostrophe stands in for the absent "19".

 

[The Knize]

I must be really American as I am having trouble hearing the problem with a glottal stop or t. Seems like a standard pronunciation to me that is not likely to be misunderstood. English is loaded with silent and deemphasized letters in words and always has been. I do not know whether for the words mentioned a glottal stop is an example of pronunciation evolving or whether it has always been so for certain English speakers.

"Home in" versus 'hone in" is interesting. Apparently in North America, the latter is common, but not as common as the former. Merriam-Webster does not consider the latter to be incorrect. Both phrases are relatively modern. I would not have heard an issue with the latter. "Hone" meaning to sharpen or perfect, I am not sure there is a problem with hone in.

 

[Raissermesser]

Had never heard of "hone in" until this topic. It was always "home in," and made me think of munitions with homing devices rather than carrier pigeons.

 

[emwolf]

I must be really American as I am having trouble hearing the problem with a glottal stop or t. Seems like a standard pronunciation to me that is not likely to be misunderstood. English is loaded with silent and deemphasized letters in words and always has been. I do not know whether for the words mentioned a glottal stop is an example of pronunciation evolving or whether it has always been so for certain English speakers.

as @Go West Young Man stated above, there are a lot of words that no longer have the consonant. I hear "important" said "im-poor'-ant" and "cotton" as "kaw'-in" very frequently. I grew up learning and saying "im-port'-unt" or "cot'-un"

 

[TexLaw]

I grew up learning and saying "im-port'-unt" or "cot'-un"

I grew up (and still say) "im-port'-nt" and "cot'-n." The tip of my tongue stays on the roof of my mouth through the final syllable.

 

[DocPapi]

Had never heard of "hone in" until this topic. It was always "home in," and made me think of munitions with homing devices rather than carrier pigeons.

Maybe its a matter of region or the like. When I use one of those terms (which is rare), I've always used and heard "hone in," never, to my memory, "home in."

 

[emwolf]

I grew up (and still say) "im-port'-nt" and "cot'-n." The tip of my tongue stays on the roof of my mouth through the final syllable.

yes, I don't have an adequate grasp on phonetic alphabets and spelling for this forum, but yours is more in line with what I'm trying to say.

 

[davent]

Maybe its a matter of region or the like. When I use one of those terms (which is rare), I've always used and heard "hone in," never, to my memory, "home in."

Like you I've no recollection of hearing anyone say they would 'home in on', always hone but who's to say i'm actually hearing exactly what was pronounced for the third letter.

One i find irksome is i often hear speakers drop the 'g' when saying words endin with 'ing'.
dave




Yes i did it on purpose.

 

[John Rose]

"Hone" and "home" - they are two different words with different meanings.
The only thing they have in common is that they almost rhyme. Would you let a dentist "quill a hole in your tooth"?

Usually I hear 'hone in on" misused in the context of talking about narrowing down the number of choices or getting at the main issue to be dealt with. That is like a guided missile selecting a target and "homing in" on it. I suppose that meaning, in turn, was adopted from homing pigeons.

I suppose that using "hone" figuratively, such as in "honing your skills at such-and-such" might involve a focused concentration on some particular thing, but it's not the same.

From Wiktionary:
Verb
home (third-person singular simple present homes, present participle homing, simple past and past participle homed)
(always with "in on", transitive) To seek or aim for something.
The missile was able to home in on the target.

Verb
hone (third-person singular simple present hones, present participle honing, simple past and past participle honed)

1. To sharpen with a hone; to whet.
2. To use a hone to produce a precision bore.
3. To refine or master (a skill).
4. To make more acute, intense, or effective.

 

[esswun]

Also, the '80s is correct, but not the 80's because in the first case the apostrophe stands in for the absent "19".

Here's where it gets real...Yes, the '80s is what I use to abbreviate the whole decade of the nineteen-eighties. But what if I want to show possession in an abbreviated form (e.g., Nineteen-eighties' music, the music belonging to the '80s). Is '80s' correct or what? Or is it '80's when using digits instead of letters? It looks odd in print.

How about the band Guns N' Roses? If eliminating the A and D from and, should it be 'N'???

 

[davent]

"Hone" and "home" - they are two different words with different meanings.
The only thing they have in common is that they almost rhyme. Would you let a dentist "quill a hole in your tooth"?

Usually I hear 'hone in on" misused in the context of talking about narrowing down the number of choices or getting at the main issue to be dealt with. That is like a guided missile selecting a target and "homing in" on it. I suppose that meaning, in turn, was adopted from homing pigeons.

I suppose that using "hone" figuratively, such as in "honing your skills at such-and-such" might involve a focused concentration on some particular thing, but it's not the same.

From Wiktionary:
Verb
home (third-person singular simple present homes, present participle homing, simple past and past participle homed)
(always with "in on", transitive) To seek or aim for something.
The missile was able to home in on the target.

Verb
hone (third-person singular simple present hones, present participle honing, simple past and past participle honed)

1. To sharpen with a hone; to whet.
2. To use a hone to produce a precision bore.
3. To refine or master (a skill).
4. To make more acute, intense, or effective.

Merriam Webster acknowledges that some people consider 'hone in on' an error but does define the phrase 'hone in on'.

Definition of HONE IN ON

hone in on
phrasal verb
Definition of hone in on


US
: to find and go directly toward (someone or something)
The missile was honing in on its target.

—usually used figuratively.

Researchers are honing in on the cause of the disease.

NOTE: Although hone in on is widely used, many people regard it as an error for home in on.

dave

 

[John Rose]

Here's where it gets real...Yes, the '80s is what I use to abbreviate the whole decade of the nineteen-eighties. But what if I want to show possession in an abbreviated form (e.g., Nineteen-eighties' music, the music belonging to the '80s). Is '80s' correct or what? Or is it '80's when using digits instead of letters? It looks odd in print.

I'd vote for '80s'.
But spell it "New Wave".

How about the band Guns N' Roses? If eliminating the A and D from and, should it be 'N'???

Blame the headbanging for that one.

 

[Doc4]

Blame the headbanging for that one.

They’re a motley crew who can’t spell their own name correctly.