What is the oldest straight razor you own?

[Tjh]

Probably my oldest blade atm. This Samuel Norris S:Norris stamp could make it as early as 1767. View attachment 938712 View attachment 938713 View attachment 938714

OMG OMG OMG.... guess what I'm about to post?



The "*P" mark, marks it as a Fox&Norris. There is absolutely no indication of any names on the blade or tangs (I've seen Sam Norris blades bearing his name, even with a *P, as well as a few with names of the Fox Brothers). By my estimate this could be as old as 1735 - 1738 when the oldest of the two Fox brothers and matthew norris were granted freedom (and possibly started using *P mark) or as late as the 1790s (when the last of the Fox's died the 'fox and norris' brand was no more).

At the very least - the strop/box was made by Crenet Fils, a parisian cutler who did work around 1800-

 

[kcb5150]

That's an awesome blade. Yeah, I think when Norris solely had that mark he modified it slightly so you can differentiate those examples. I suspect there may be overlap in the years with our blades, though if I had to guess, if mine is the early end of the range for my mark, maybe yours is 10-15yrs older maybe? It's a miracle they're both in the shape they're in.

 

[Tjh]

That's an awesome blade. Yeah, I think when Norris solely had that mark he modified it slightly so you can differentiate those examples. I suspect there may be overlap in the years with our blades, though if I had to guess, if mine is the early end of the range for my mark, maybe yours is 10-15yrs older maybe? It's a miracle they're both in the shape they're in.

what makes me think it was not a sam norris *P is that the only examples I've seen of those were made late enough to actually have some shoulder and shaped more like an early 19th cent. razor than the one I have - which is certainly shaped like an 18th cent. razor.

 

[kcb5150]

I think the later era P is a bit different in shape as I recall.

 

[Tjh]

I think the later era P is a bit different in shape as I recall.

so i'm trying to reimagine the age of these razors by "generation count". Let's say you started shaving in your teens and give it up into your 80s, this gives an average of 60 years...a good place to start. Which means a razor like that fox&norris could possibly have been purchased by my great-great-grandfather (i.e. i'm the 5th generation). So far all this makes sense, razors from the early 20th cent. I've seen are that are handed down are from peoples "grandfathers", so it checks out.

But here's my issue: by my count, my great-great-grandfather - or say my great grandma's father, prbly lived between 1880 or 1890 to about 1950 or so, seeing as how my great grandma died in 2016 at 104....so who was newly buying a razor in 1765 - 240 years before I newly bought mine.

 

[kcb5150]

Life spans were much shorter back then. Most of them were put away never to be used again I reckon. Know how you can tell which kept going, they got hollow ground, unfortunately.

 

[Tjh]

Life spans were much shorter back then.

not in my family, lol - did you not read what i said about my 104 year old great grandma?

But yea, that's true on average...hmm, interesting. so 1760-1800 was potentially even 6 or 7 generations back?

OOH, no i see what I did wrong, generations in shaving last about 30 years, same as when you study sociology or smthg. Cuz if you shave till you're 70 or 80 it's your GRANDSON you're giving your razor to, not your son. so I'm the 9th generation possessor of this razor

 

[Clay S]

not in my family, lol - did you not read what i said about my 104 year old great grandma?

But yea, that's true on average...hmm, interesting. so 1760-1800 was potentially even 6 or 7 generations back?

OOH, no i see what I did wrong, generations in shaving last about 30 years, same as when you study sociology or smthg. Cuz if you shave till you're 70 or 80 it's your GRANDSON you're giving your razor to, not your son. so I'm the 9th generation possessor of this razor

A generation is generally considered to be 20 years, recently its extended to 25 years as people wait longer to have children and/or get married. You have to research your lineage to get a precise answer.

 

[Tjh]

A generation is generally considered to be 20 years, recently its extended to 25 years as people wait longer to have children and/or get married. You have to research your lineage to get a precise answer.

yeap, that's what i realized - 25 and I've heard 30 years as well. I;d say a bit more (30-35) for shaving cuz you have add a few more years since it isn't about birth/death but shaving. Far as I know, in my family most had kids VERY young, for the men i'd say 15 or so max, heck it's very likely my great grandpa had a kid around the same time he started shaving.

But since we're talking about shaving, i'd say what matters is when you stared shaving (which likely hasn't changed in a very long time) and when you stop (idk about this one, but from what I can tell my ancestors prbly had their beards shaved everyday right upto the day they died - once you go back more than 300 years we're basically talking about everyone being teachers and priests).

 

[Clay S]

Other than the initial shaver and last shaver, when you start shaving doesn't play into it. They still had children at the same time. First shaver could have already had a child before even stating shaving, so not too sure if that would even play into it.

But I wasn't thinking clearly earlier, the 20 years is in regards to "a generation", as in baby boomers etc., and would only be close genealogically if you were from a long line of first borns. 25-30 is more normal/realistic range. My direct royal lineages of 28-29 generations work out to be 27 years, some would round up to 28 years.

 

[Tjh]

I think the later era P is a bit different in shape as I recall.

I just saw someone on SRP who posted a bunch of links and pictures, from what i can tell the P was more rounded (edges) in Sam's time, earlier P's weren't as rounded and looks like they even had the thing at the bottom of the P...from what I can tell anyways.

Although, he's convinced that my razor is much younger than yours would be - i'm not quite so sure! Neither of our blades have the straight spine of slight curve on the edge at the heel that early 1700s razos seem to have - but I sometimes wonder how accurate dating by shape is - outside of 50-100 year time periods...it's not like people went "ok guys it's now officially 1st jan 1800...happy new year! and time to start making razors with a shoulder now!"

 

[kcb5150]

Who, zak or fikira? Either of those guys are super knowledgeable about this sort of thing.

 

[Tjh]

Who, zak or fikira? Either of those guys are super knowledgeable about this sort of thing.

fikira! he's the one who showed me the pics an explanation about the differences between the P's between the generations. And yea he's super knowledgeable...i was finally able to fully understand the Fox family tree.
I'm still sticking with the "older than United States" story...

Side note: for whatever reason - S:Norris blades shaped like 18 cent blades like the pic you posted is a lot more popular than I thought it'd be - i found another one on ebay!

 

[kcb5150]

They're not that common really, especially good ones.

 

[dankeeler128]

I think mine might now be this one:

If I'm reading everything right, Marples & Co stopped making razors around 1919, so it's at least 100 years old. I know that's not much for some of you, but I've just started this little journey.

 

[Mlee]

I think mine might now be this one:View attachment 951930 View attachment 951931

If I'm reading everything right, Marples & Co stopped making razors around 1919, so it's at least 100 years old. I know that's not much for some of you, but I've just started this little journey.

It doesn't say England on it so it should be before 1891.

 

[Mlee]

I believe this Sheaf Works is probably my oldest. From what I've read, it may be from around 1830.

This one surprised me, It's an early FRIEDR ERN & CO from about 1870.

And I have no idea on this, It's a George Wostenholm & Sons I-XL made at Washington Works so it might be from the mid 1800's.

 

[mrlandpirate]

Mlee are those razors shave ready?
resting them on that metal knob makes me uneasy

 

[dankeeler128]

It doesn't say England on it so it should be before 1891.

Thanks, I'm new to straights, so I don't really know anything about the history of them.

 

[Mlee]

Mlee are those razors shave ready?
resting them on that metal knob makes me uneasy

Nope not yet.

I'll probably have someone restore these for me that know what they're doing. I don't trust myself.