Thiers vs. Dovo [Archive] - Badger & Blade

Suzuki

10-19-2006, 09:13 AM

LX_Emergency

10-19-2006, 09:16 AM

I bought a Thiers a while ago. I LOVE my TI 7/8 it's awesome. Don't have a lot of experience with DOVO but like you said they're very consistantly created. The Goldwork on my thiers was a bit pathetic but it shaves like nothing else.

Want a shaver: Theirs Issard
Want a looker: Dovo

sphughes

10-19-2006, 09:33 AM

I have both and get a great shave out of either. My Dovo is a 5/8 no frills that listed for about $70. I bought it new through Tony Miller, www.thewellshavedgentleman.com, and it has been a solid performer, quality all the way and it holds the edge well.

I have a TI that I paid 2x for but it is a limited edition razor specifically created for the SRP that I also purchased new. This is a 6/8 razor that shaves like a dream and also keeps a sweet edge. Here is the link for more info on the razor, www.classicshaving.com/catalog/item/1523551/1203373.htm

I personally don't think you would go wrong with either a TI or a Dovo; both are outstanding. As you are probably aware, having multiple SE's makes good sense. Being able to 'rest' a blade does it good and having a rotation helps to feed RAD. I presently rotate 8 blades and have a number of others to switch in when the urge strikes. Experiment with different size blades as well.

Another option to consider is John Crowley's site, www.shavingshop.com. I have bought 4 razors from John and damn.....they are nice. Feel free to pm me if you want more info...Happy to help if I can.

-Scott-

JohnP

10-19-2006, 09:36 AM

Personally, I think you would do great with either for a shaver.
I've got 3 Thiers Issard and (had) several Dovos (now I only have 2 of them).
My Dovo Bismarck is still one of my favorite shavers and it is in good company (TI's, Wonderedges, etc).
If the lead hardened thing appeals to you I know TI makes a big deal of it, although as far as shaving I tend to lean toward the nicer Dovo's (I had a Dovo "best quality" that I sold, great razor, but to me the Dovo "Special" on up seem somehow to shave a tad bit smoother).
So, since it's six in one hand, half dozen in the other...go with the razor you like the looks of. Either will do well, I think.
Just remember you may need to hone the razor or have it honed, all of my TI's needed honing out of the box, while a few of my Dovo's were ready to go (not all, however).
Hope this helps,
John P.

joel

10-19-2006, 11:14 AM

I'm considering a new straight and would like to hear your thoughts on Thiers and Dovo razors.

I've heard that there is more variation between Thiers razors as they are primarly made by hand, while the Dovos are very consistent because they are about 90% machine made. I'm leaning towards a Thiers as I like the lines of the handle, but what I'm really looking for is a good shaver.

I'd appreaciate your thoughts.

I'm looking for a reasonably inexpensive new razor as I'm considering taking up straight shaving again, but more seriously this time.

So any other thoughts on the subject would also be appreciated.

I own several high end Theirs razors, and I have owned over 10 TI razors as a whole - some of which honed by me, some of which honed by the "Honemeister" and I have not had a SINGLE one shave me worth a damn. I have a really, really tough beard, and they "flex" far too much, and just do not cut my beard well... in fact - since I do not get good shaves with them, I felt it was due to sharpness - and oversharpened my TI's to the point whereby they are TOO sharp to shave with - and now they just leave my face haggard... so basically I NEVER use them. What a shame. Now on to quality control. A TI look like it is build by a drunkard, and the finish immediatly starts to wear off and the blades will rust/discolor easier/faster than ANY other brand of razor I have experienced. Personally... I am not a fan of TI - I am a fan of quality - and a Dovo is quality. I have a dovo catalogue - and according to them it is all hand ground, 90+% handmade - 10% machine made... but hey - personally for the price point of those razors, I don't care if it is handmade or machine made when it is $120 or below... what I want for $120 or below is QUALITY - and quality- thy name is Dovo... period. You hear complaints (as well as praise) constantly about TI's. Dovo's... you will seldom hear a complaint on... as they are quality items.

On a side note - why not consider a razor from John Crowley (http://www.shavingshop.com) - you can get a FULL handmade razor, HIGHER quality than that of a dovo OR a TI, for about the same price.... AND you can have John hone it for you for $20 - so it'll come to you ready to rock and roll. As far as I am concerned, if you want to go with a new razor - that is the only way to go!

Not to mention.... John is one hell of a nice guy... and I like it. Think of QED/Charles - but of straight razors. Superb service, and just one hell of a nice guy, who is really passionate about his products. Anyone who talks me out of a $700 razor (he sells) to a $170 razor - as it would be a better fit for me, is a gentleman concerned with SERVICE, and making the customer HAPPY - over just making money. Shoot him an email (he has contact info on his site - I believe the red box on the left side) and tell him you heard about him on B&B and ask for some suggestions on how to get started... you'll get some damn good advice/help.

Suzuki

10-19-2006, 12:29 PM

I own several high end Theirs razors, and I have owned over 10 TI razors as a whole - some of which honed by me, some of which honed by the "Honemeister" and I have not had a SINGLE one shave me worth a damn. I have a really, really tough beard, and they "flex" far too much, and just do not cut my beard well... in fact - since I do not get good shaves with them, I felt it was due to sharpness - and oversharpened my TI's to the point whereby they are TOO sharp to shave with - and now they just leave my face haggard... so basically I NEVER use them. What a shame. Now on to quality control. A TI look like it is build by a drunkard, and the finish immediatly starts to wear off and the blades will rust/discolor easier/faster than ANY other brand of razor I have experienced. Personally... I am not a fan of TI - I am a fan of quality - and a Dovo is quality. I have a dovo catalogue - and according to them it is all hand ground, 90+% handmade - 10% machine made... but hey - personally for the price point of those razors, I don't care if it is handmade or machine made when it is $120 or below... what I want for $120 or below is QUALITY - and quality- thy name is Dovo... period. You hear complaints (as well as praise) constantly about TI's. Dovo's... you will seldom hear a complaint on... as they are quality items.

On a side note - why not consider a razor from John Crowley (http://www.shavingshop.com) - you can get a FULL handmade razor, HIGHER quality than that of a dovo OR a TI, for about the same price.... AND you can have John hone it for you for $20 - so it'll come to you ready to rock and roll. As far as I am concerned, if you want to go with a new razor - that is the only way to go!

Not to mention.... John is one hell of a nice guy... and I like it. Think of QED/Charles - but of straight razors. Superb service, and just one hell of a nice guy, who is really passionate about his products. Anyone who talks me out of a $700 razor (he sells) to a $170 razor - as it would be a better fit for me, is a gentleman concerned with SERVICE, and making the customer HAPPY - over just making money. Shoot him an email (he has contact info on his site - I believe the red box on the left side) and tell him you heard about him on B&B and ask for some suggestions on how to get started... you'll get some damn good advice/help.

Joel:

Thanks for the info and the recommendation for John - I've actually been to his site a couple of times and he was on my list of potential sources. I'll have to give him a call and ask for his recommendations. I'm interested in some of the Wacker razors, as well as some of the $80 starter razors he has - I actually want a spike (I've used a straight before) and am not sure whether to go with a 5/8 or 6/8 and John can help me decide.

Any other suggestions for someone who has a coarse, thick beard? I also like the look of some of the frameback razors and I've read what you've said about the 1/4 grind.

Thanks again.

AandW

10-20-2006, 03:17 PM

I have often read that TI's are a PITA to hone, as compared to DOVO.

I have no experience with either. So, maybe one of the more experienced straight guys can confirm or dispute this.

JohnP

10-20-2006, 03:46 PM

Bruce this is true, at least in my experience. The TI does seem to hold the edge a little longer, so it is somewhat of a trade-off.
Personally I am a fan of Dovo. I like TI's, own 3, but for me, the over all enjoyability nod goes to Dovos.
John P.

Tony Miller

10-21-2006, 10:48 PM

Wow, tough call. I have owned Dovo's and TI razors as well as lots of other brands cheap and expensive.

I sell Dovo's in my sets because they are consistant, take and hold an edge well and are very affordable. That said though my own collection consists of 14 TI razors, 1 Filarmonica and a few old meat choppers. I would not trade most of my TI razors for anything.....except a different size of the same brand.

In response to the mention of the Dovo I sell in one of the first posts. My price looks a little higher than average retail and thet is because the hand honing is already built into the price, not added on later. I hone them all so they are shave ready...it's not an option.

Best,
Tony

JohnP

10-21-2006, 10:54 PM

Well there ya go, in my opinion its a no-brainer.
John P.

ouch

10-22-2006, 07:48 AM

I like the TI's. They're beautiful and take a wicked edge. I recently sold my last Dovo, a Bergischer Lowe. It was gorgeous, but I could never get it just right. For under $100, the Dovos may provide better value.

AFDavis11

10-23-2006, 06:04 PM

Now I'm totally lost. I don't own a TI but $100+ bucks is too much to take a chance with. I'll stick with Dovo, reluctantly though.

VintageBlades

10-23-2006, 10:46 PM

Sorry I'm jumping into this late, and my point of view is biased by the fact that I am a Dovo dealer, but I did evaluate both brands before making a decision as to which to carry. Thery BOTH make excellent razors and some great ones at their higher end. I did feel that TI was having some quality issues, but it was the overall "fit and finish" across the product line that sold me on Dovo. In the end though, it boils down to what you like in a particular razor. If its a Dovo, so much the better. And by the way, that 90% machine made stuff is not true. Yes, they use machinery. But, more like 80% of the work is done by hand, and it's a much higher percentage in the more expensive razors.

This is kind of like trying to decide between a new Benz or a BMW (couldn't think of a French car). In the end, you are going to love either one.

ouch

10-24-2006, 06:35 AM

Now I'm totally lost. I don't own a TI but $100+ bucks is too much to take a chance with. I'll stick with Dovo, reluctantly though.

You can get a very nice, shave ready razor for half that on SRP.

LX_Emergency

10-24-2006, 06:40 AM

actually Tony Miller has a very nice Dark Horn handled 7/8 TI for sale. It'll cost ya $150 whereas normally you'd pay at least 170......plus it'd be honed already.

Capt. Pat

10-24-2006, 07:13 PM

actually Tony Miller has a very nice Dark Horn handled 7/8 TI for sale. It'll cost ya $150 whereas normally you'd pay at least 170......plus it'd be honed already.

Not any more.....:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Suzuki

11-01-2006, 08:18 AM

You can get a very nice, shave ready razor for half that on SRP.

That's what I ended up doing - got three decent refurbished, shave-ready razors for $100. Seemed like the way to go - also I like the looks and history of the old razors.

ouch

11-01-2006, 08:31 AM

Babying them is half the fun.

crackstar

12-02-2006, 01:31 PM

My Dovo Bismarck is the best straight according to my barber. He's the one who recommended it for me, and bought it for me. He also does all my honing.

Jeff

joel

12-02-2006, 01:36 PM

My Dovo Bismarck is the best straight according to my barber. He's the one who recommended it for me, and bought it for me. He also does all my honing.

Jeff

No offense, but your baber probably hasn't tried too many razors then.

crackstar

12-02-2006, 02:00 PM

Joel, my barber is a straight razor expert. He's an old-time, old-school barber from Europe, who started doing this when he was a kid.

Jeff

Suzuki

12-05-2006, 10:24 AM

Jeff - the Dovo Bismark is, by all accounts, a very good razor and represents very good value for the money. I don't have one, so I can't comment on its shaving performance.

To be blunt, there is no such thing as a "best" straight razor (even more so than there is no "best" DE blade or shaving brush, etc.). While your barber may be a whiz of a barber and know how to hone and strop the hell out of a razor, I tend to agree with Joel that its unlikely that he's tried many razors - in particular the higher-end razors.

More than any other piece of shaving gear, what some people like, others don't. While a Bismark may be a good - or even the "best" - first razor, it is certainly not the "best" straight razor out there. For example, there are people who only like heavier grinds, people who only use 8/8 razors, etc. - there's no way a Bismark would even be on the list of these people's must have razors.

Not sayin' the Bismark isn't a good razor, just sayin' it isn't the best razor out there.

What's most important is that you like your Bismark.

JohnP

12-05-2006, 11:36 AM

Just the same,
It might be the best for YOU. Straights are a very personal thing. What is the cat's meow for one man will be a devil for another. I own (and obviously have shaved with) wonderedges, Thiers-Issards, Henkels, Case, Watervilles, and all sorts of other straights. While the Dovo Bismarck may not be the "best" it is more because there is really no such thing in the straight world. It will shave just as good as the razors listed above IMHO, and some that I didn't list. In fact if I recall correctly, the Dovo Bismarck was the razor that started the resurgence of interest in Dovo over at SRP a couple years ago. I post shamefully seldom there now, because I keep getting caught up in some touchy Mark TSSB instigated debate here....
But that begs the question. Do not let anyone tell you that Dovo Bismarck will not perform admirably for you. If you want TI's, Wonderedges, etc. by all means get them. I did. That said, once properly honed and stropped, I doubt you will tell any difference in the shave. The rest is IMHO "snob appeal" to a large degree. My whiskers can't tell the difference when they are wiped off.
John P.

M36

07-31-2007, 09:08 PM

No offense, but your barber probably hasn't tried too many razors then.

I don't think Jeff is taking offense for himself, but I think that he has a very high regard for his barber, and maybe it was a pot shot at the man that he has a lot of respect and admiration for. From looking at the other side of the fence from the barber's stand point, I think that in his barbers mind, the Bismark is the best razor to shave another mans face with and I think that is the point that his barber was referring to and it was missed in the thread. If he has been doing this for as long as it sounds, maybe that is the razor he "grew up with" as a barber and it has worked well for him. Why get something new and more expensive if he is comfortable with it? My barber intructor has been in the business for 44 years and his favorite is a Filarmonica Doble Temple. The 7/8 with the gold on the blade. To tell him that he hasnt tried very many razors is pretty big assumption on your part, and I would be willing to bet he has tried more in his career than you own. Same goes for Jeffs barbers career.

Joel, no offense in my post and none now, but how many other mens faces have you shaved? If your not a barber I think I know the answer.

Jim

izlat

07-31-2007, 10:34 PM

Opinions can change, obviously

Cheers
Ivo

Daedalus

08-01-2007, 09:37 AM

I am not an expert here but I have accumulated several of the razors in question. The TI are very gracefully shaped and well-balanced. They are a pleasure to hold and behold, save for the poorly applied gold wash on the blades. I would prefer if they just left that off - the razor would look much better. The Dovos exude quality. Every grind line is perfectly straight, the blade slips into the scales perfectly centered, and any insignia on the blade is tasteful and beautifully done. Both of them get as sharp as I can make them with the current state of my honing skill. The TI seems to hone more easily with the carbon steel blades as opposed to the stainless Dovos. One thing is certain - for value for the money, the Dovo Bismarck Super is the winner for me. The scales are of thin black plastic, but the blade grind and finish are equal to their more expensive razors. I would look no further than the Bismarck for a first razor. No Ebay risk, and great quality for relatively little money.

Daedalus

OccamsRazor

08-02-2007, 03:33 PM

Kelly siefkas

08-02-2007, 04:06 PM

Excuse me for butting in but, my first new straight was the Dovo Bismark Super almost five years ago. It was GREAT right out of the box, I havent tried them all, but after that razor I didn't need to. I have learned to strop and hone with that razor and I can shave with it daily. I have a number of razors and the bulk of them are sweethearts, but that little black DOVO, she's a true love.

Tony Miller

08-02-2007, 05:57 PM

Remember though that Dovo makes several quit different razors all carrying the Bismark name. There is the bone handle, square point, gold washed straight tang models for around $120, the Art Deco red and black handle models with curved tangs for around $100 and a plain black plastic scaled one that is more like $60 or so. Different blade shapes at the tang which leads me to believe different blanks are used for each.

Tony

Richard

08-06-2007, 08:53 PM

I've been using my dovo for about 5 months and love it. It is the only one I own and see no reason to switch.
Rich

“All good things arrive unto them that wait – and don’t die in the meantime.” – Mark Twain

izlat

08-07-2007, 12:14 AM

By the way, you're resurrecting an old post, and if you're really looking for a mild change in opinion, check out what Joel says about John Crowley here and then subsequent posts about his Wacker mishaps.

He also got a bad top of the line Dovo (ivory) recently and is in love with TI - especially the historic one

Cheers
Ivo

Rasorface

08-07-2007, 01:53 PM

Maybe this is of interest here.
I just want to say something about Thiers Issard's quality gain.

In the last 3 month the quality of the Thiers Issard razors has increased tremendously. Besides the steel and heat treatment the blades are done really nice. So are the scales and pinning.

The etching really has improved a lot.
Let me explain something about etching here.

It is quite easy to make a good gold etching onto a semi-polished blade like Dovos or others.
This is a totally different thing when it comes to highly mirror polished blades.
Here it is very hard to do a good and long lasting etching.
You have to keep this in mind, when you are comparing blade etchings.

You will not buy a Thiers Issard for the etching but for the excellent steel and shaving qualities. This has been true and maybe this will stay true.
I never had a Thiers Issard razor which shaved badly and I have quite a fiew of them.

New razors vs. historical ones.
It has been said that the Thiers Issard razors are inconsistent in their appearance.
Well, first they are hand made and not machine made.
But even here things have been improved. Grinding machines have been re-built and procedures have been improved too.

But when it comes to historical blades, this is totally different. These blades are really old and sometimes each one is different even from the same forging.
Nobody will grind them, except for the crazy guys with Thiers Issard.
Sometimes they have to throw away half the blades they work on.

So historical blades are hard to work on and are time consuming as well.

I guess, most of the folks around here do not know this and maybe this helps you along your straight razor's way. :001_smile

izlat

08-08-2007, 10:57 AM

The Maestro also grinds "historic" blanks. And I'd say many here know the stuff above...

Nevertheless, I do agree that TIs are great shavers. I haven't had too many, but the several that were dialed in were like 10+ on a scale of 1-10. In fact, I just used another vintage TI frameback and was very happy with it, even before fine-tuning (it was above 9+, should be able to get it to at least 10/10)

Cheers
Ivo

Nobeard

08-08-2007, 05:50 PM

I own several high end Theirs razors, and I have owned over 10 TI razors as a whole - some of which honed by me, some of which honed by the "Honemeister" and I have not had a SINGLE one shave me worth a damn. I have a really, really tough beard, and they "flex" far too much, and just do not cut my beard well... in fact - since I do not get good shaves with them, I felt it was due to sharpness - and oversharpened my TI's to the point whereby they are TOO sharp to shave with - and now they just leave my face haggard... so basically I NEVER use them. What a shame. Now on to quality control. A TI look like it is build by a drunkard, and the finish immediatly starts to wear off and the blades will rust/discolor easier/faster than ANY other brand of razor I have experienced. Personally... I am not a fan of TI - I am a fan of quality - and a Dovo is quality. I have a dovo catalogue - and according to them it is all hand ground, 90+% handmade - 10% machine made... but hey - personally for the price point of those razors, I don't care if it is handmade or machine made when it is $120 or below... what I want for $120 or below is QUALITY - and quality- thy name is Dovo... period. You hear complaints (as well as praise) constantly about TI's. Dovo's... you will seldom hear a complaint on... as they are quality items.

On a side note - why not consider a razor from John Crowley (http://www.shavingshop.com) - you can get a FULL handmade razor, HIGHER quality than that of a dovo OR a TI, for about the same price.... AND you can have John hone it for you for $20 - so it'll come to you ready to rock and roll. As far as I am concerned, if you want to go with a new razor - that is the only way to go!

Not to mention.... John is one hell of a nice guy... and I like it. Think of QED/Charles - but of straight razors. Superb service, and just one hell of a nice guy, who is really passionate about his products. Anyone who talks me out of a $700 razor (he sells) to a $170 razor - as it would be a better fit for me, is a gentleman concerned with SERVICE, and making the customer HAPPY - over just making money. Shoot him an email (he has contact info on his site - I believe the red box on the left side) and tell him you heard about him on B&B and ask for some suggestions on how to get started... you'll get some damn good advice/help.

I looked at the John Crawley site (from the link) and could not find any mention of razors that he makes. ???

Tony Miller

08-08-2007, 06:53 PM

John does not make razor but he is the USA distributor for Heribert Wacker razors from Germany. These are typically ground from vintage, NOS blanks and set in some really nice scales. Nice place to find some truely unique pieces.

Tony Miller

joel

08-08-2007, 10:42 PM

I looked at the John Crawley site (from the link) and could not find any mention of razors that he makes. ???

Tom,
Please note, the post in which I made that comments was prior to actually receiving my "dud" razor from this firm. Please see the review section for an in depth review of the Wacker Razor I received. Quite a few fellas are less than impressed with them....

izlat

08-08-2007, 11:28 PM

By the way, John Crowley sells custom razors by Robert Williams too. These have somewhat of a cult following. But if you are planning on getting one and can wait a bit - better to contact Robert directly for "your" razor

Cheers
Ivo

Nobeard

08-09-2007, 06:20 AM

Tom,
Please note, the post in which I made that comments was prior to actually receiving my "dud" razor from this firm. Please see the review section for an in depth review of the Wacker Razor I received. Quite a few fellas are less than impressed with them....

Thank you very much. I see that I misread the original post. The Wacker razors on the link look very nice. But I'll have to read the review, I'm concerned about the dud you received.

The Wacker site comments sure make them sound great. As if they were lovingly crafted by gnomes in the black forest. haha. That had me sucked in. So it's good to see others comments and reviews.

ScottS

08-09-2007, 06:46 AM

In the last 3 month the quality of the Thiers Issard razors has increased tremendously. Besides the steel and heat treatment the blades are done really nice. So are the scales and pinning.

You certainly sound like you know this for a fact, but I 'm curious about how you found this out.

Rasorface

08-09-2007, 07:46 AM

You certainly sound like you know this for a fact, but I 'm curious about how you found this out.

Because I am working with them together to inscrease the quality. I got razors from before that period and after.
And I have been in the factory.

mparker762

08-09-2007, 07:47 AM

You certainly sound like you know this for a fact, but I 'm curious about how you found this out.

It's pretty common knowledge in the straight razor community. TI has gotten new modern machines to replace their worn out centuries-old equipment, and has found a new steel supplier as well. Some members have visited the factory and seen this in person, and there are several people around here who have preproduction samples of the new stuff and are genuinely impressed with the transformation TI is undergoing.

ScottS

08-09-2007, 10:50 AM

Thanks--

I marginally follow SRP, but didn't see this. I was just wondering how one person could have sampled enough before and after TI's to be able to seem so positive about a difference. This explains it.

Now, of course, we can all start wondering about the manufacture date of TI razors for sale. What's the best way to guarantee a new one?

izlat

08-09-2007, 03:06 PM

They will have a letter stamp on the tang to denote the heat treatment batch - unlike the "old" ones. But I am not sure when they will be available for sale.

I would certainly like to hear more about Rasorface - what he's doing to help TI out, is he a contractor, an independent dealer, a scientist, etc.

Cheers
Ivo

Nobeard

08-10-2007, 09:37 AM

Earlier someone mentioned the Dovo "best quality" razor, mentioning that it is a good value and more of a value since it will be out of production. Well, who is selling them in a 5/8 or 4/8 size?

I found some vendors but they only had 6/8 size left. I saw one dealer that seemed to have raised the price since this price drop was slleged to have occurred.

Any help would be appreciated. I'm considering trying a straight razor, but do not want to spend too much, in case I don't like using a straight

bjrn

08-10-2007, 10:14 AM

Doc4

08-12-2007, 07:05 PM

If you've never used a straight before, I'd suggest going over to the SRP (http://www.straightrazorplace.com/) forums. After reading up a bit (if needed) check out the buy/sell/trade forum, there are a lot of good shave-ready razors being sold there for less than $50, and friendly people who will help out newbies.

Ditto. There are some great straight conversations here, but for whatever reason most of the buying and selling of straights is on SRP rather than here ... go figure.

mezzeta

11-16-2007, 01:45 PM

Never tryed TI but love my Dovo!

CloseShave

11-18-2007, 04:34 PM

If your're looking for great wine, go to France. If you want great steel, go to Gerrmany.

mparker762

11-18-2007, 04:46 PM

If your're looking for great wine, go to France. If you want great steel, go to Gerrmany.

So why did so many vintage Solingen brands use Sheffield or Eskilstuna steel? Of the surviving manufacturers, Thiers-Issard (France) uses Sheffield steel and Dovo (Germany) uses Swedish steel - I'm not sure if it's still Eskilstuna or not. Giesen & Forstoff may use German steel, but that's hardly a recommendation.

Daves

05-09-2008, 05:05 AM

In the last month I have bought 2 TI str8s. I already have some Dovos and a Filarmonica. They TIs work quite well for me. I enjoy them and would like to get more.

Daves:smile:

linuxbriel

06-07-2008, 08:44 AM