Stropping for morons

[Scotto]

Hi guys. I just got my four sided strop from Tony Miller and was trying it out. It is non-trivial for me to keep the spine from lifting up during the motion. Any advice on how to hold the razor, etc. to learn the proper motion? Is it a no-no to put a finger on the blade or spine to help out at first while one is learning, as long as no pressure is applied??

I am also confused on the rough leather (linen-equivalent). Is this to be used every time before hitting the regular stropping surface (i.e. before every shave)or just after honing, etc.?

As an aside, I don't think I have ever encountered a sharper implement than this razor. Pretty scary. I borrowed a hair from my wife and showed her how it lops it off free-standing. That got her attention.:scared:

[AFDavis11]

Hopefully she won't shave with it cuz cutting a free hanging hair is childs play in my opinion to a beard that can just laugh at your razor. Most guys that role the edge with a strop either do it hard or sloppy. Your not the type to do anything like that. Just go slow and roll the blade over on the spine. I hold the razor by the shank so that my wrist can roll to its max gimbal and place the blade flat in either direction. Don't press down. I like my fingers to touch the ridges on the shank for control. Split leather is used with pastes to sharpen the blade at the end of the honing cycle, usually with a paste commesurate with the leather. I think Tony suggested use of a high grit paste with split leather. Like 3 and 6 micron. You may want to ask him direct, his products are specific, almost customized. I don't suggest using before every shave. Just when touching up. And clean the razor carefully before going from pastes to final stropping. Thats my opinion.

Lifting the spine while stropping is very bad. I think of myself as pulling the razor with a "controlled" wrist movement.

[Laz in Tampa]

[QUOTE=Scotto]Hi guys. I just got my four sided strop from Tony Miller and was trying it out. It is non-trivial for me to keep the spine from lifting up during the motion. Any advice on how to hold the razor, etc. to learn the proper motion? Is it a no-no to put a finger on the blade or spine to help out at first while one is learning, as long as no pressure is applied??

Like AFDavis said, hold it on the shank of the blade. I wouldn't put a finger on the blade. Some blades are very thin and even finger pressure can bend the blade, and force the edge off the strop.

I am also confused on the rough leather (linen-equivalent). Is this to be used every time before hitting the regular stropping surface (i.e. before every shave)or just after honing, etc.?

Linen is a religious-type debate. Some swear by it, others do not use it. I would try the smoother leathers first before every shave. If you seem to need a touch up, then try the rougher leather for a few passes.

As an aside, I don't think I have ever encountered a sharper implement than this razor. Pretty scary. I borrowed a hair from my wife and showed her how it lops it off free-standing. That got her attention.:scared:

Izzat the one I sent ya? :blush: Again, the hanging hair test is a nice parlor trick, but don't assume it is shave ready simply because of that.

[Laz in Tampa]

Oh yeah, I fergot to tell ya, you can practice stropping with a butter knife. That way you wont chop up your edge with shaving sharp razor......

[AACJ]

What do you think of all of this Randy?

Oh, wait the title is "Stropping for morons" not "Stropping for MORMONS"!!

:001_tt2: :wink: :eek:

[rtaylor61]

What do you think of all of this Randy?

Oh, wait the title is "Stropping for morons" not "Stropping for MORMONS"!!

What do I think? I think I can learn something from everyone. Thanks to Scottos for asking the questions, and to AFDavis11 and to Laz for chiming in with their great advice.

Now...what am I learning from you? I've got to figure out which title you think most applies!:001_tt2:

Randy

[AFDavis11]

I have to admit in restropect that I have found paddle strops are just a tad harder to keep the blade on and balanced than a hanging strop. Seems the handle end sometimes falls off. With a paddle I usually go slower and place one end on the counter top. Of course, unlike a hanging strop, the paddle won't bend or curl either.

Tony is working on a new prototype paddle with leather and balsa wood combination for me that I should be getting this week. I believe it will be a wide paddle strop, I can't wait. That bad boy should be pure stopping perfection. :smile:

Ofcourse, I couldn't help but buy one of those great looking hanging strops of his too.

Scotto, do you have a hone?

[Scotto]

I have to admit in restropect that I have found paddle strops are just a tad harder to keep the blade on and balanced than a hanging strop. Seems the handle end sometimes falls off. With a paddle I usually go slower and place one end on the counter top. Of course, unlike a hanging strop, the paddle won't bend or curl either.

Tony is working on a new prototype paddle with leather and balsa wood combination for me that I should be getting this week. I believe it will be a wide paddle strop, I can't wait. That bad boy should be pure stopping perfection. :smile:

Ofcourse, I couldn't help but buy one of those great looking hanging strops of his too.

Scotto, do you have a hone?
No hone. Haven't even shaved with the razor yet. :redface:

[Scotto]

Another dumb question: Is the rolling of the blade over the spine when switching directions driven by wrist action or by the fingertips?

[roughrider]

Another dumb question: Is the rolling of the blade over the spine when switching directions driven by wrist action or by the fingertips?


From "The art of shaving" dvd, Greg says it's done by the fingertips.

[AFDavis11]

I use both myself, but after having posted I realized just how much control I let my index finger have in the process. I may be wrong but my wrist moves as well. I think my fingers do the fine motor skill movements and the wrist the gross movement. I try not to let the razor "hit" the strop too hard by using my fingers.

[Rik]

Another dumb question: Is the rolling of the blade over the spine when switching directions driven by wrist action or by the fingertips?

I use a finger motion.

[AFDavis11]

I did a little more stropping and I remembered a post I read along time ago that you should move the shank in your fingers like your rolling a pencil. At the time it didn't mean much to me but I think that'll give you a good visual. Although you should take care, stropping really isn't hard.

[Scotto]

Not sure if I have been doing something wrong here. My first stroke on the strop is away from me, from heel to tip. Then I flip the razor over the spine and return, tip to heel. I notice that in a lot of instructions, they tell you to move the razor so that the second stroke is also heel to tip. Does it really matter?

[AFDavis11]

Probably not too much, but the advantages of stropping in an X pattern are more obvious if you hone in an X pattern. I suggest you learn to strop in a slight x pattern sliding the blade along the spine on the strop at the end of the stroke. Then you return as before from heal to tip. I think that will give you a more consistent stroke coming back as the beginning of the stroke is easy to screw up.

If this feels natural to you though and you feel like its not teetering on the strop and as long as it stays flat I would think your results would be pretty good regardless of the unorthordox pattern.

I suggest waiting for more comments though as I don't like to recommend things unless I have personally tried them. That pattern is not one I have ever tried.

[netsurfr]

Not sure if I have been doing something wrong here. My first stroke on the strop is away from me, from heel to tip. Then I flip the razor over the spine and return, tip to heel. I notice that in a lot of instructions, they tell you to move the razor so that the second stroke is also heel to tip. Does it really matter?

I am not an expert but... if your razor has been honed in an X pattern using heel-to-tip for both sides, then it seems like it may be best to use the same procedure on the strop.
Since I am relatively new to straight razor shaving, I have adhered to that hypothesis since I am trying to follow established practices that get the best edge before I go off experimenting too much. Am looking for that scary sharp blade that glides...
Just my two cents,
Steve

[letterk]

One thing that helped me greatly with my stropping was using your fingers to rotate the blade so your wrist stays in the same position. I'm not sure if that's a general rule, or something entirely wrong, but it has sure helped me get a much more consistent stroke.

[Scorpio]

At SRP Lynn has a video clip of his stropping motion, it might help. I roll the spine with my fingers. No down pressure, just drag the spine. My strop is a two sided leather(latigo leather on both sides, one rough one smooth), I always use the rougher side then the smooth side when I strop before shaving. When I hone, I only use the smooth side. Works for me. Keep the strop taut this seems to work well for me although for some a little slack also works. My strop is almost 3 inches wide so it can fit just about any blade hence I use a modified X pattern. Lately I have been practicing leading the stroke with the tip of the blade. Too early to tell if it makes any difference.

Raf

[19george]

Ok this might not help at all, but I'm going to post it anyway, because I just can't help not giving advice to a legendary B&Ber like Scotto. :biggrin:

When I strop my straight I bend the scales a little back behind the razor (similar to the they are bent back when you shave). I find that this balances the weight of the blade and makes it easy to lay the blade flat on the strop. Although it will probably be really annoying on a paddle strop. :rolleyes:

[kozulich]

I use a hanging strop, but I think the technique is essentially the same, as I put quite a bit of tension on the strop. I hold the razor with the scales straight out in-line with the blade. I firmly grasp the razor by the jimps (the ridges on the tang) using my index finger and thumb. Starting farthest away on the strop with the spine facing toward my I pull the razor toward me. I concentrate on maintaining firm contact between the spine and the strop (that contact is maintained using wrist and arm muscles) with my index finger and thumb I control the rotation of the blade so that the edge is in contact with the strop but not subject to much pressure. As my pull stroke nears the end of the strop, I use my thumb and index finger to roll the blade over the spine, making sure that by the time this motion is finished I have reversed the direction the blade is moving on the strop (i.e. the spine continues to lead the blade). Once you get comfortable with this motion, you can do it really quickly. You need to start slowly though until you are able to interpret the feedback you get from the blade. Things like the sound the blade is making, the amount of drag you are getting from the blade and the pressure your fingers are exerting.

[catatonic]

In general use your fingers. If you think the spine will come off, life the edge off first.

When I started on a strop I had to remove the blade repeatedly, so I made sure the spine was the first and last thing to touch...that gave me the best results, while I was working on my technique (and still am...) Given, this is not correct form, but it's better than the other option, until rolling the blade is more natural to the user.

the biggest thing to avoid is getting close to the handle on the stroke towards you....if you do that, you might have no other option than to cut into the strop or lift the spine off. that's how my Dovo russian got tore up.

[mjsorkin]

Scotto,

Way to go on the new straight razor/strop. I am also somewhat new to this but I think I can contribute here. My first advice would be that if the razor was sent to you shaving sharp, that you don't try to strop it too much before shaving with it. At this point because you are a first time stropper, you may dull the blade slightly, more than you refine the edge.

If you have a rough leather side and you intend to use that in place of the linen, here is how to use that. The linen is generally used before every shave. I use 12 strokes on linen, and then finish with 25-30 strokes on leather before shaving. After honing, I never use the linen, I always go straight to the leather. I also strop at least a little on linen after each shave and usually the leather too.

As for the different hand positions/motions when stropping I don't think there is a right answer to this. It is like your knife skills in the kitchen. With practice you will naturally find the right grip and motion and it will feel very natural. I grip the tang of the razor with thumb and forefinger, my other fingers gently holding the weight of the scales. I try to grip the tang as close to the heel of the blade as I can. My motion is some wrist action, but I also turn the tang with my fingers as I strop. I would be wary of touching any part of the blade in order to stabilize it while stropping. Lynn warns against this in the honing section of his DVD. The blade should be kept steady and flat with one hand gripping the tang.

I try to make my strokes exactly the same pressure, direction and length in each direction. This is one of the keys to honing razors too. So, I wouldn't use the tip to heel stroke on the way back. I recommend only the x-pattern for stropping. Keep the spine of the razor on the strop at all times and when you turn it over just slide the whole thing back up on the spine so the heel is back on the strop.

Hope this helps.

----Michael

[Scotto]

I think it is great that people have revived this thread, and there is a lot of good info here, but in the spirit of clarity I'll point out that the original thread was from 11/05. The Grand Str8 Experiment by Scotto taught him one thing soon after it began - I am not cut out (pun intended) for str8 razors. :wink:

I am sure that new str8 users will benefit from this great advice, so keep it up.