The SD Alcohol is also called Denatured Alcohol, you can buy it in the hardware section of stores, usually by the paint stuff.
Link to the FDA page,
http://www.foodsafety.gov/~dms/cos-227.html
Just thought i would mention that.
Witch Hazel Question
- Thread starter GMen
- Start date
The SD Alcohol is also called Denatured Alcohol, you can buy it in the hardware section of stores, usually by the paint stuff.
Link to the FDA page,
http://www.foodsafety.gov/~dms/cos-227.html
Just thought i would mention that.
Goldtwins, you came here to argue. Just admit it. You obviously know jack squat about science, alcohol, Witch Hazel, extraction, or tannins- yet you want to argue with someone that already said he was done arguing? Every single thing you fail to understand is answered in the links that you, by your own admission, were too lazy to read.
Out of every link I posted, every one of them states the correct formula for Witch Hazel. You want some sort of "authority" to state that "real" witch hazel contains 14% alcohol. OK, well what about the link to the FDA's classification of what constitutes Witch Hazel? Or the British equivalent? Is that "official" enough for you? Do you want God himself to come down from the heavens and say "look, stupid, real Witch Hazel contains 14% alcohol?" Or would you still argue with Him?
Let me re-phrase your argument substituting Witch Hazel for The Andy Griffith Show.
==============================================
Me: The Andy Griffith Show was a television show that starred Andy Griffith and Ronny Howard. It ran during the sixties, started out in black and white, and ended in color.
You: Nuh uh.
Me: Huh?
You: Andy Griffith was in Matlock. That makes it also an Andy Griffith Show.
Me: Actually, no, there was the Andy Griffith Show, and then there was Matlock.
You: Says who? I see nothing in your links to indicate that the "real" Andy Griffith Show wasn't also Matlock. I also think it's crazy that you think Matlock was in black and white.
================================================
You want to argue, fine. Argue with yourself. If I keep going back and forth with you I'm just going to get mean, and this forum is not the place for me to get mean at.
I'm officially off this thread. If anyone else wants to scream at a brick wall, you're up.
Out of every link I posted, every one of them states the correct formula for Witch Hazel. You want some sort of "authority" to state that "real" witch hazel contains 14% alcohol. OK, well what about the link to the FDA's classification of what constitutes Witch Hazel? Or the British equivalent? Is that "official" enough for you? Do you want God himself to come down from the heavens and say "look, stupid, real Witch Hazel contains 14% alcohol?" Or would you still argue with Him?
Let me re-phrase your argument substituting Witch Hazel for The Andy Griffith Show.
==============================================
Me: The Andy Griffith Show was a television show that starred Andy Griffith and Ronny Howard. It ran during the sixties, started out in black and white, and ended in color.
You: Nuh uh.
Me: Huh?
You: Andy Griffith was in Matlock. That makes it also an Andy Griffith Show.
Me: Actually, no, there was the Andy Griffith Show, and then there was Matlock.
You: Says who? I see nothing in your links to indicate that the "real" Andy Griffith Show wasn't also Matlock. I also think it's crazy that you think Matlock was in black and white.
================================================
You want to argue, fine. Argue with yourself. If I keep going back and forth with you I'm just going to get mean, and this forum is not the place for me to get mean at.
I'm officially off this thread. If anyone else wants to scream at a brick wall, you're up.
Ahhhh, there's only one original....
and she was copied from Disney!
and she was copied from Disney!
Wow. I come to the site to learn not argue. When I see so much incorrect information spewed out I have to say something. In my first post I conceded that fine the product of "witch hazel" also called "witch hazel water" in one of your links has 14% alcohol added. Yes it is sold and called witch hazel. Your link also says it is different in Europe. I conceded that. I also said that your posts that I quoted were wrong. Each time instead of looking at that you still come back with must be 14% and got personal then never backed up any of your incorrect "facts". Yes to be the product or water. Great. Hurah. But the active ingredient is witch hazel. Witch Hazel is what has been used long before a company decided to put alcohol in it. Witch Hazel extract is the important ingredient. The alcohol is used to preserve, to evaporate so you don't have a wet face but a face full of witch hazel. So when Thayers uses Witch Hazel with other ingredients they can call it witch hazel and guess what it will still work as witch hazel but without the drying of alcohol as well as some of the other attributes. This is fact. This was in your link. http://www.stevenfoster.com/education/monograph/witchhazel.html. But all of your statements of alcohol removal and tannins and pulling out alcohol from the plant and oils don't come from plants is wrong. But insteead of seeing that you just get personal. Fine. I stopped reading the rest of you links because half were sites just selling witch hazel. This included one that said theirs was better because others are mostly alcohol (how can that be if they are only 14%) and the other links showed you were wrong in your statement of "facts". You analogy is also of course flawed. My side would be that Andy Griffith the actor is in both shows each giving us that characteristics of Andy Griffith we know and love. Whether he has 14% supporting actors in one show and 0 in the other. Like the Indians and Steven Foster (and the research he talks about) says Witch Hazel is the important ingredient and has all of the great attributes with or without alcohol. He also talks about how great the tannins are (Hmm Thayers uses lots of tannin). So unlike you I have nothing personal toward you. Yes "Witch Hazel Water" has 14% alcohol. I agreed from the start. But Witch Hazel and Witch Hazel extract is the important part and is used in many products (without the 14% added) They can work as good. Thayers has witch hazel in it and has its properties. Just because Dickinson made a company and added alcohol doesn't mean nothing else works. Or that Witch Hazel extract doesn't do anything without alcohol.
EDIT: My absolute final post on this even if you decide name calling proves your point. Just a few links for the public to inform themselves about Witch Hazel and even how the important and active ingredient, tannins, are lost in drug store distilled versions and use alcohol to help make up for this loss of astringent character. Could tannin based undistilled be better?
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_g2603/is_0001/ai_2603000137/
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art48232.asp
http://www.herbs2000.com/herbs/herbs_witch_hazel.htm
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Unlike you, I HAVE read all of the links that Clubman Rob posted, have a chemistry background, and agree with him! I have also read the links you posted and they really do NOT support your case. I guess you didn't read THEM through either!
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_g2603/is_0001/ai_2603000137/
Here is a direct quote:
"Commercial preparations include witch hazel water and gels, although much commercial witch hazel is not true distilled witch hazel water."
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art48232.asp
This is a "how-to" article from a woman's magazine on how to make cosmetics from herbal ingredients. the info on witch hazel is almost word for word from the first link you gave....hardly as authoritative as any of ClubmanRob's links, which you admitted you have not read.
http://www.herbs2000.com/herbs/herbs_witch_hazel.htm
This quote on witch hazel and varicose veins:
"Significantly, researches have shown that an alcoholic extract from the witch hazel leaves are more effective in curing the disorder than any ordinary liquid extract from other parts of the herb."
Then again, there is some question to the validity of this article when you read about witch hazel and diarrhea:
"Although witch hazel is rarely taken internally, when consumed, it also helps to cure diarrhea. This is done by taunting (sic)up the mucous covering of the intestines and stopping all kinds of intestinal bleeding."
So according to your link diarrhea is caused by intestinal bleeding and the way to stop it is to make fun of mucous!
This article does not instill a lot of of confidence, IMHO!
Sometimes it is better to quit while you are ahead. Perhaps you will learn that for future reference.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_g2603/is_0001/ai_2603000137/
Here is a direct quote:
"Commercial preparations include witch hazel water and gels, although much commercial witch hazel is not true distilled witch hazel water."
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art48232.asp
This is a "how-to" article from a woman's magazine on how to make cosmetics from herbal ingredients. the info on witch hazel is almost word for word from the first link you gave....hardly as authoritative as any of ClubmanRob's links, which you admitted you have not read.
http://www.herbs2000.com/herbs/herbs_witch_hazel.htm
This quote on witch hazel and varicose veins:
"Significantly, researches have shown that an alcoholic extract from the witch hazel leaves are more effective in curing the disorder than any ordinary liquid extract from other parts of the herb."
Then again, there is some question to the validity of this article when you read about witch hazel and diarrhea:
"Although witch hazel is rarely taken internally, when consumed, it also helps to cure diarrhea. This is done by taunting (sic)up the mucous covering of the intestines and stopping all kinds of intestinal bleeding."
So according to your link diarrhea is caused by intestinal bleeding and the way to stop it is to make fun of mucous!
This article does not instill a lot of of confidence, IMHO!Sometimes it is better to quit while you are ahead. Perhaps you will learn that for future reference.
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Rob, might I suggest that your nearly 2 years and 2K posts are far more valuable to the members of this fine forum than this thread is portraying.
Goldtwins, might I suggest that flame wars are not only highly discouraged here on the B&B but also not a good idea for new members.
I suggest you both agree to disagree, believe what you believe and press on. While I have an opinion of both your posts I feel the B&B is best served if this argument simply comes to a stop.
Let's all be gentlemen.
Let's all be gentlemen.
+1
In fact, I would hesitate to say that thats the very reason many of us are on this site so frequently...to have civil discussion about a hobby we all share.
There's a little too much ownage in this thread for my tastes
I did not know that. I've been using stuff that's far more expensive, because it's labeled as SD cosmetic alcohol probably, for my Aloe/Glycerine/Mint EO concoction. I'll have to remember that for next time. Thanks for the heads up.
There are many formulations for denatured alcohol. Make sure the one you have is for cosmetic use. The FDA document that Krissy linked to listed the formulations that are suitable, SD Alcohol 23-A, SD Alcohol 40, and SD Alcohol 40-B. I have never seen one of these formulations in a hardware store but that does not mean you can't find one there.
I've seen the 40 in the hardware store around here. Never in a HD or Lowes. Only in the mom and pop, but they do have it.
The denatured alcohol in the paint and thinner departments of hardward stores are 'denatured' or rendered undrinkable with toxic denaturants not for use on your skin. Please do not try this on your skin, it is a solvent, not a perfumers alcohol.
Sue
Sue
I recently concocted a 50/50 mixture of Dickinson's and FOTE Aloe Vera Gel. As Rob so completely points out. Thayers is a witch hazel-like product and I prefer the real stuff (at a fraction of the price). If you prefer Thayer's then use Thayers and knock yourself out. All I'm saying is it's not my bag. The 50/50 mixture works like a champ, tightening pores and moisturizing in one fall swoop.
My future experiments with home brew WH products will likely include a mix with Dickinsons and Murray and Lanman's Rose Cologne. Another idea is a 50/50 mix of Dickinson's and Osage Rub. I think that both of these products would likely kick up the alcohol content a bit as well as provide some of the scent and menthol qualities Thayers is so proud of. It should also be noted that even buying the mixing ingredients separately, I get the effect of Thayers using REAL WH at a fraction of the cost. Wow, who would have thought that a discussion of witch hazel could get so ugly.
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I have every intention of doing something similar to what you are suggesting, once I get through the several bottles of toner I already have. I plan to make my own out of Dickinson's, hydrosols, EO's, and maybe a touch of aloe and/or glycerin.
Please keep posting your results!
<Murray and Lanman's Rose Cologne>
Do not mean to steal this thread, but wanted to comment I have been using that--again-- lately. I still really like it. In fact, what happened is got a tub of that B&B group buy Charles/QED Rose/Sandalwood shaving soap, which launched me into this rose all the way things. I have been showering with a rose soap I got that is the fancy hotel at Yosemine's house soap. (Very nice really. Very pure rose in aroma.) Then if I remember, I put some M&L on my hot towels (although the Florida Water seems better for that for some reason so far.) Then I shave with the QED stuff. (Interesting stuff. I think it is really growing on me as a scent and as a shaving soap. Never used a glycerine-based shaving soap before. Not sure I like that part.) Then I use the M&L as an after shave. Then for an EDT I have been using Czech and Speake's 88. (Very interesting stuff and to me very rose. Thought I would really like it. Got it and liked it at first. Then not so much. Starting to like it more than ever now. Something about all the other rose stuff may bring out aspects of the 88 that I like the most.)
Through all of that, I am not sure that I do not like the M&L scent the best. Even if I don't really, all of that truly classy and expensive rose stuff, does not blow the M&L away as an inferior product or anything, at least to my nose. Pretty impressive to me. I do not know how they do it.
Do not mean to steal this thread, but wanted to comment I have been using that--again-- lately. I still really like it. In fact, what happened is got a tub of that B&B group buy Charles/QED Rose/Sandalwood shaving soap, which launched me into this rose all the way things. I have been showering with a rose soap I got that is the fancy hotel at Yosemine's house soap. (Very nice really. Very pure rose in aroma.) Then if I remember, I put some M&L on my hot towels (although the Florida Water seems better for that for some reason so far.) Then I shave with the QED stuff. (Interesting stuff. I think it is really growing on me as a scent and as a shaving soap. Never used a glycerine-based shaving soap before. Not sure I like that part.) Then I use the M&L as an after shave. Then for an EDT I have been using Czech and Speake's 88. (Very interesting stuff and to me very rose. Thought I would really like it. Got it and liked it at first. Then not so much. Starting to like it more than ever now. Something about all the other rose stuff may bring out aspects of the 88 that I like the most.)
Through all of that, I am not sure that I do not like the M&L scent the best. Even if I don't really, all of that truly classy and expensive rose stuff, does not blow the M&L away as an inferior product or anything, at least to my nose. Pretty impressive to me. I do not know how they do it.
I have every intention of doing something similar to what you are suggesting, once I get through the several bottles of toner I already have. I plan to make my own out of Dickinson's, hydrosols, EO's, and maybe a touch of aloe and/or glycerin.
Please keep posting your results!
If you want to add alcohol, you can use vodka or preferably Everclear (190 proof grain alcohol), if you can buy it where you live. This has to be for your personal use ONLY, by law. If you plan to share it or sell it, you will need to use perfumers alcohol.
Your recipe will be safer with some alcohol since you are not using an anti-microbial. Sounds good, post your results.
Sue
LOL...poor Rob. I feel for the man, seriously. How many times has the guy had to explain the whole "witch hazel HAS alcohol" thing? I've come across his well spoken and lucid explanations so many times he must feel like Don Quixote tipping at windmills by now. Kudos to you for your Job-like patience Rob!
