Wanna get this right

[Dripp]

I'd recommend watching this video

http://www.gentlemans-shop.com/acatalog/How-to-shave.html

I've been at this for 6-7 years and after i watched this last weekend, made a big difference

 

[N2theBreech]

About the burn you felt on the second lather. If it's not an adverse reaction to the soap/cream, do you think it could be that on your first pass you were pressing so hard with the disposable that you were already creating razor burn?

Also, shaving with a DE is a lot different than with a disposable. It will take time to re-train your muscle memory on angle and pressure. I encourage you to stick with it. I'm glad I did. Good luck.

 

[beengone]

Just shaved. The EJ DE89 shipped with a pack of Derby Extras pictured here. This was the worst shave I've ever imagined. I know I'll get better and know much of it was my fault, but need some help.

I did my normal thing (sorry it's so long, but I want to be very explicit in hopes I'm doing something wrong and not realizing it):
- shower
- dry off and apply hot, wet washcloth for a few seconds.
- mix my shaving cream with my badger brush
- hot washcloth again for about 15 seconds
- wet face with hot water
- lather face well
- I'll get back to the actual shave
- rinse with cold water
- pat dry
- Witch Hazel
- cold water rinse
- pat very dry
- WH again since I hurt so much
- Nivea aftershave (burned but cooled well since I'm so cut/razor burned)
- clean everything up, etc.

So, the shave. I started at just below my 1/2" sideburn (right near top of my ear) since I can both see the razor and blade and it's the softest hair on my face with a single growth direction - I never have trouble with razor burn or cuts here. I put the DE on, tilted down until I saw and felt the blade touch and let the razor come down my face. I kept my wrist locked. Right away the blade started skipping and pulling. This continued everywhere on my face. This seems very wrong to me. Of course, it was worse on the rest of my face where the hair is thicker and more coarse.

As I went around, the parts of my face I nearly always cut - jaw line, under the jaw line midway back, around my Adam's Apple, all over my chin as wide as my mouth - bled quite a lot. I had lots of red later. Most of these stopped up after I rinsed and used the WH, but the one part of my chin where I tried to get a good, close shave bled in 5-6 spots for a good long time well after the aftershave. Here I know I tried to go over-and-over without re-lathering and realize how dumb that was.

So, I'll obviously need to practice over-and-over. I can do that, but the blade shouldn't skip like it did, should it? What do I do about that?

Finally, as I cleaned the razor, I noticed a white film on it that didn't rinse. I was under the impression the cream would rinse off nicely, but clearly not. I just read up on how to clean a DE, but noticed some people say they see no buildup. Do some creams rinse clean? I realize water would play a factor here as far as minerals, etc.

Again, thanks for all the help. Wish I had my alum block already since my face could use everything it could get right now.

 

[davros]

Well, in no particular order:

1. the white film on the razor is soap scum; it's an occupational hazard of using soap based products with hard water. It's nothing particularly to worry about, except it stops your DE89 looking so nice and shiny. It'll come off with a quick soak in dish detergent and a little scrubbing with a toothbrush or similar and the razor should be good as new.

2. Are you still having the stinging issues with the cream? If so, that won't have helped your first shave one bit. You might find that working up the lather a bit more vigorously, and working more water into it helps a bit, and/or using softened or distilled water, but the best bet might be to try a different cream.

3. The skipping and pulling. No, it shouldn't be like that. It's probably mostly a technique issue. Play around with angles a bit - try tilting the razor down just a tiny bit further. Use less pressure. Play around with the razor on your hand or arm a little - just stroke it along the skin as lightly as you can to get a feel for the weight and balance of the thing.
It could be the blade - there's a slim chance the first blade was duff, which is easily tested, and plenty of people don't get on well with Derbys. But at this point, 'user error' is a more likely possibility, so try and eliminate that first.

4. The overall poor result is probably a combination of the effects of lots of possible factors; the limits of your razor technique, maybe the cream not agreeing with you, maybe your lather not being all that (a common problem with hard water), maybe the blade not agreeing with you. Technique only comes with practice, but as for the rest, try to narrow things down by changing one thing at a time. There are loads of variables at play here, and they can interact in all kinds of unlikely ways.

5. You might be overdoing it with the prep a bit - hot water softens whiskers, but it can also mess up your skin.

6. Give your face time to heal. How long this is depends on your skin, but give it at least a couple of days before you try again. Shaving over irritation and cuts that haven't healed properly is a recipe for disaster, and discouragement - even if your technique is improving, you might not be able to tell, because the net result might not feel any better.

It does get better, with time, practice and a bit of experimentation to find the right set up. Some people seem to get fantastic shaves with a DE right from the off, but most of us didn't. Best of luck with it!

 

[beengone]

Great advice so far. Thanks everyone. At this point I'm writing this half as a journal for two purposes. First, for myself as I'm sure in a couple months I'll start screwing up the basics and want to have this all documented in one simple location. Second, in case anyone else is starting out and finds it helpful to see what this dufus messed up.

I went back and watched the beginner videos from mantic59 again and caught a few things I was screwing up. Specifically, I noticed my lather could be better still and I needed to take slower, shorter passes with the razor being sure not to overlap. This morning I set aside a little extra time and slowed it down.

I won't worry about the soap scum and noticed it's not very bad. Plus, with better lather there was less of it. I don't think I mixed my lather enough on previous days. I may have had a touch too much water today, but overall it was better.

I didn't do as much face prep, swapped out the blade for a new one, fixed problems with my technique, had better lather, and followed mantic's advice of not trying for BBS. Last time I took multiple passes and tried fixing areas without re-prepping. Dumb. So, this time I did almost all WTG and slight XTG, realizing it wouldn't give me the best shave, but paying attention to my technique. I did my first pass and had no burning when I re-lathered. I'm nearly certain the cream burning was due to razor burn. The only places that burned today were on the touch-ups after I had nicked myself. Speaking of nicks, I only had three small spots and only one actually bled to the end of the shave. Not bad for day two with a DE. I also only took an extra pass on my normal problem areas and didn't worry that they still weren't very good. I decided to do more XTG / AGT after I'm more confident with this razor. Very little irritation today, which is a very welcome change.

One question: has anyone here ever used Shoprite (huge grocery chain where I am) branded DE blades? Shoprite's store brand stuff is usually VERY good in my experience and I picked them up in case my second Derby pulled and skipped. At about $0.22 per blade I figured they were worth throwing into the test pile with the sampler pack I'll receive this week. Wondered if anyone tried them before. A quick search showed they used to be Gem Personnas, but who knows if they've re-sourced since that post. They do sell Gem Personnas single blades.

Hopefully I can give this whole DE thing another spin come Wednesday. Again, thanks for all the help.

 

[beengone]

Day 3 of DE shaving. I used the blade from yesterday (Derby Extra) and I think it started to dull near the end of the shave. I ended up with a good shave, but didn't want to go ATG in the normal trouble areas, especially with a dulling blade. Mostly I did WTG and XTG, though ATG for about half my face. No irritation, only two little nicks that stopped bleeding immediately. The cream didn't burn much at all and not until 3rd of 4th pass, which was XTG/ATG. I think we're onto something here.

No word on the Shoprite blades?

 

[Snargle]

Day 3 of DE shaving. I used the blade from yesterday (Derby Extra) and I think it started to dull near the end of the shave. I ended up with a good shave, but didn't want to go ATG in the normal trouble areas, especially with a dulling blade. Mostly I did WTG and XTG, though ATG for about half my face. No irritation, only two little nicks that stopped bleeding immediately. The cream didn't burn much at all and not until 3rd of 4th pass, which was XTG/ATG. I think we're onto something here.

No word on the Shoprite blades?

Nice work on your progress so far...stick with it and you'll be an experienced veteran in no time!

Those Shoprite blades look like they're the standard Personna/American Safety Razor blades. ASR manufactures them under many different private labels. They seem to have mixed reviews...but so does everything else around here! Give them a try and see if they work for you. If not, you're only out a few bucks.

 

[beengone]

Nice work on your progress so far...stick with it and you'll be an experienced veteran in no time!

Those Shoprite blades look like they're the standard Personna/American Safety Razor blades. ASR manufactures them under many different private labels. They seem to have mixed reviews...but so does everything else around here! Give them a try and see if they work for you. If not, you're only out a few bucks.

I think you're right. I'll try them out. Even if they aren't great, I'll know where to get some in a bind. Thanks.

 

[beengone]

This looks like a better method for me in many ways. I think the longer strokes would help me a lot. I'm intrigued that he can go over an area so quickly and repetitively. He certainly knows his razor and face. I'm a long way from it, but thanks for sending that video along.

I'd recommend watching this video

http://www.gentlemans-shop.com/acatalog/How-to-shave.html

I've been at this for 6-7 years and after i watched this last weekend, made a big difference

 

[beengone]

Used a new blade (another Derby Extra). Same prep and process as before. I did a little more ATG today to mixed results. I had about a dozen nicks, all but two of which stopped by the end of the shave. Shave quality was much improved and I only had any burning where I was nicked or where I didn't pay attention. But, to have shaved three days in a row without my face torn to bits and dried out is proof enough for me. I think I'll take a day off tomorrow to let my face heal a little more. I have a few red dots hanging out at the edge of my beard on my neck from few days ago and hope they'll disappear completely soon.

I did notice that under my lip and a couple places where my hair is abnormally thick and tough that the blade was pulling more than it should. I wasn't irritated too badly though. I'll try a few more times with some ATG as I get better and decide if it's worthwhile or not. I may have to settle with XTG, but only time will tell.

Finally, I did order some Proraso pre- and post-shave stuff. I'm hoping that will help the razor glide better and skip less. The blade sample pack will arrive any time too. I'll finish out these Derbys and try something else, but will be sure to try with the Proraso first to see if that makes the blade work better.

 

[Snargle]

It's beginning to sound like the Derbies aren't the blade for you. Definitely work your way through the blade sampler and see if you can find something that's sharper and smoother. If you're getting pulling with a new blade, then you have wire whiskers, bad prep (which isn't likely), or a blade that just doesn't work for your razor-face combo.

 

[beengone]

It's beginning to sound like the Derbies aren't the blade for you. Definitely work your way through the blade sampler and see if you can find something that's sharper and smoother. If you're getting pulling with a new blade, then you have wire whiskers, bad prep (which isn't likely), or a blade that just doesn't work for your razor-face combo.

Sounds like what I was thinking. Sampler should arrive soon. I'll go through a few of each kind and switch marking what I like and don't like. I figure 3 blades should give me a good feel. Then, after I go through 3 of each, I'll cycle back to the ones I thought I liked and order what's best. Good feeling knowing I'm out just a couple bucks on a pack if they don't work. I'm fairly confident on my prep, but not quite as much on blade angle. That's obviously what I'm trying to get better at.

 

[beengone]

Looking back on it, davros's advice is some of the best help I've had yet. I plan to change creams sometime as it still burns just a bit. I'll likely break down and try another in a week or so, but am trying not to collect anything. No "investing" either. I can't end up with the contagious disorder. After only 4 shaves, I found myself looking at other handles, etc for the razor. NO NO NO.

 

[Oscroft]

Hoping the EJ DE89 on the way for my b-day is the silver bullet

Sorry I'm a bit late on this thread, but when I read that from a few days ago, my first though was "Not on its first use it won't be!" The reason for that is that it will require a different technique to the cartridge way of shaving, especially getting the pressure right - you need none at all and just let the weight of the razor and the sharpness of the blade do the job, whereas with a cartridge you kinda need to press quite hard. For many people, that first DE shave but using a cartridge technique gives a poor result.

And that led me to my next thought, that if you have a very tough beard, Derby blades may well not suit you at all. They are quite enigmatic, as this test that I conducted recently showed me, and a lot of people get good service from them, but they're not the sharpest blades by some margin.

My feeling is that you might be better off with a sharper blade, like an Astra SP or a Gillette 7 O'Clock Yellow - they're not in the top tier of sharpness, but they're not far behind (and you can try the very sharpest - Feathers and Personna Med Prep currently share my vote - when your technique is getting better). You will need to be careful of pressure - again, use none, and just let each pass reduce the stubble rather than trying to use force to get it all off.

If you keep on with the sound advice you're getting here - good prep (the Proraso pre/post stuff is reputed to be excellent), good lather, a blade that suits you in your DE89, no pressure and the right blade angle, only as many passes as is comfortable, and a good AS treatment (I like Nivea balm myself too), you should see steady improvements. And with a bit of luck, you'll come to see the DE89 as the excellent razor it is.

PS: Happy birthday

 

[beengone]

Great, thanks especially for naming some blades. I purchased a sampler pack that includes the Astra SPs and the other two 7 O'Clocks, but not the yellows. That's about par for the course for me. I'll run through my sampler and pick up some yellows too.

 

[JoeCool]

Some of this may have already been covered in the thread but...

Your beard/skin/face description sounds very similar to mine. I started with a cheapo $10 Chinese DE razor and ended up buying a Merkur HD after about a month. Merkur HD is miles ahead of the cheap one I had and from my understanding the Edwin Jagger DE89 is a similar performer. Proper technique will come with practice. If you have enough time to very cautiously shave (30-45min) I would start with Feather blades. They are the sharpest and thus pretty unforgiving of bad technique. You'll get some nicks and cuts but you'll learn very quickly. A blade sampler pack is still a fantastic idea as well so you can find the blades that agree with your face.

Lather also plays a huge part in quality of shave. You may want to look over the lather tutorials in the ShaveWiki and practice making lather. I may catch some heat from this next suggestion but you may also want to use good ole Barbasol while learning proper technique. I occasionally still use it if I'm in more of a hurry or forgot to soak my brush before my shower and although I feel it detracts from the "shaving zen" experience, it still does what lather is supposed to do.

There are two things that have seemed to improve my shave most beyond the typical advice dispensed here, however: 1) shaving in the shower and 2) either pre-shave oil (I use shave secret ~$4 at WalMart) or leaving the lather on my face for ~2min before rinsing and re-lathering and starting the shave. I feel that shaving in the shower has made it easier to keep my face properly hydrated between passes and using the pre-shave oil or leaving the lather to go to work on the whiskers has helped me better prepare my hair/skin. The downside to shaving in the shower is you won't really have the audible feedback of the whiskers being cut by the razor.

Oh and in the beginning, don't chase after BBS, you'll likely just irritate your skin (I know I did that way too many times in the beginning and still do occasionally). You may want to just do WTG/XTG/XTG (opposite the first XTG) or even just WTG/XTG. For someone with light skin and very dark hair, BBS won't really look visually different from a DFS anyway.

 

[Oscroft]

I'd recommend watching this video

http://www.gentlemans-shop.com/acatalog/How-to-shave.html

I've been at this for 6-7 years and after i watched this last weekend, made a big difference

Please bear in mind that it is just his personal opinion, which others might dispute.

For example, he says to always paint the lather on and never use a circular motion because it will damage the brush, but that's just plain nonsense. No decent brush (and he's using a very decent Simpson Duke) will be damaged by circular motions - in fact, many face-lathering brushes are designed for that very action.

And he says never shave ATG unless you really have to - but as a generalisation, that's nonsense too. Sure, some people shouldn't do it, but there are plenty of folk for whom an ATG pass is absolutely no problem at all.

He's shown his way of doing it, which is presumably fine for him, but there are all sorts of faces out there, and it just isn't true that one size fits all.

 

[Snargle]

He's shown his way of doing it, which is presumably fine for him, but there are all sorts of faces out there, and it just isn't true that one size fits all.

+1 As we always say, YMMV!

 

[beengone]

Some of this may have already been covered in the thread but...

For someone with light skin and very dark hair, BBS won't really look visually different from a DFS anyway.

Your whole post was helpful. I'm looking forward to new blades and Proraso pre-shave. I've been working on the lather and think I'm getting something pretty good. Shaving in the shower is not an option for me yet, but may be in the future. I can't even stay focused when I see myself cutting my face. I get about halfway through a shave and find I don't know how I don't remember those last three passes. As for Barbasol, I'll try that if I'm in a hurry of feel my lather sucks as some point. But, after shaving three days in a row with no real irritation, I'm light years ahead of where I was and am fairly confident that the pre-shave and a sharper blade will do it. I've considered diving in with Feathers, but think I'll try some Astras and 7 o'clocks first. I sort of like my face where it is. But, your suggestion brought back the temptation I had to try those first out of my sampler pack. Ugh.

As for the part I quoted above, you're correct that BBS looks like butt no matter what as my skin is so light and whiskers so dark. I look like I have a beard no matter how long or short they are. But, I'm going to get this perfected in time just in case I want to take my wife out on a hot date.

Thanks for following up.

 

[beengone]

Please bear in mind that it is just his personal opinion, which others might dispute.

For example, he says to always paint the lather on and never use a circular motion because it will damage the brush, but that's just plain nonsense. No decent brush (and he's using a very decent Simpson Duke) will be damaged by circular motions - in fact, many face-lathering brushes are designed for that very action.

And he says never shave ATG unless you really have to - but as a generalisation, that's nonsense too. Sure, some people shouldn't do it, but there are plenty of folk for whom an ATG pass is absolutely no problem at all.

He's shown his way of doing it, which is presumably fine for him, but there are all sorts of faces out there, and it just isn't true that one size fits all.

Totally agree and probably should have commented on those items myself. I disagreed with his painting vs. circles comment. Looks like his scruff is finer than mine, so that probably works fine for him. This likely the reason he thinks ATG is useless. I don't buy the brush damage either. I do however like the longer strokes and the speed with which he accomplished his shave. I picked up a few tricks on pulling my face around that work better too. So, yes, YMMV, but I'm glad I saw it.