Starter hone setup....

[Magruder]

Okay, let me back up. I need something for routine honing, on razors that could be made serviceable on a Norton 4000/8000. If I read this thread right, the DMT 8000 will serve for this. Correct me if I misunderstood.

In addition to that, I want to hone out a good size ding in my Wapi (boy, that almost sounds like an embarrassing personal problem, doesn't it?). I dropped it a few days ago, and now I have three choices: pay someone else to fix it, fix it myself, or replace it.

The going rate for honing is about $20. I checked with one of honers and razor restorers here and he said he would have to charge somewhere from $20 to $40 to hone this out.

I could get another Wapi and have it honed, for a price in that range. But this razor has new scales, and while it doesn't have any particular sentimental value, since all the options have about the same price tag, I'd just as soon fix this one.

The DMT 9 micron is $35 and I'm willing to spring for that, if it's a good choice. I may not use it frequently but I could use it now, and I want to have the equipment for 'ding repair'.

This is my second major ding in less than six months, and I may as well learn how to fix it.

Another choice for ding removal would be a Norton 1000/4000 combination ($45, from Woodcraft), or a Norton 220/1000 ($30). I'm just trying to figure out what the best choice is. Or, to put it a better way, to find out which choices will work for what I want to do, and what the pros and cons are.

 

[bjrn]

When you say "good size ding", what size are we talking about here? Unless it's huge you should be able to take it out with a Norton 4K or the DMT EE (if it cuts as fast as I've heard it cut).

I've taken a small nick out of a wapi with a belgian blue. Took ages, but it worked just fine. If I could do that with a relatively slow natural stone, doing it with a quick cutter like a DMT shouldn't be a problem.

Keep in mind: I'm still a straight razor newbie.

 

[joel]

Okay, let me back up. I need something for routine honing, on razors that could be made serviceable on a Norton 4000/8000. If I read this thread right, the DMT 8000 will serve for this. Correct me if I misunderstood.

In addition to that, I want to hone out a good size ding in my Wapi (boy, that almost sounds like an embarrassing personal problem, doesn't it?). I dropped it a few days ago, and now I have three choices: pay someone else to fix it, fix it myself, or replace it.

The going rate for honing is about $20. I checked with one of honers and razor restorers here and he said he would have to charge somewhere from $20 to $40 to hone this out.

I could get another Wapi and have it honed, for a price in that range. But this razor has new scales, and while it doesn't have any particular sentimental value, since all the options have about the same price tag, I'd just as soon fix this one.

The DMT 9 micron is $35 and I'm willing to spring for that, if it's a good choice. I may not use it frequently but I could use it now, and I want to have the equipment for 'ding repair'.

This is my second major ding in less than six months, and I may as well learn how to fix it.

Another choice for ding removal would be a Norton 1000/4000 combination ($45, from Woodcraft), or a Norton 220/1000 ($30). I'm just trying to figure out what the best choice is. Or, to put it a better way, to find out which choices will work for what I want to do, and what the pros and cons are.

2 dings in 6 months

Ok - honestly... repairing a ding, and putting a serviceable edge on a razor is no easy feat. Hell... if it were my razor (and I probably have 50 hones) and it were a wapi (cheap/readily available) PERSONALLY, I'd give the dinged wapi away or throw it out, and buy a new wapi for $17. If it's a big ding, as you are eluding to, to hone it out, and get it shaving beautifully, for most (who don't have powered belts/equipment) that is a pretty arduous multiple hour long task. Hell... look around.... there is only a few fellas out there even willing to take on this type of work, and so far the only one I have sent a badly damaged razor to, and had it come back beautiful and shaving beautifully has been Joe Chandler.

IF you want to get rid of a ding, depending on the size of the ding, even with REALLY aggressive hones (Like a DMT Coarse or Extra Coarse) it can be a very laborious process. Also, keep in mind to get it shaving beautifully, you'll need to remove the scratches from the lower grits you used to hone out the ding - so you'll need at least a few stones. PERSONALLY, I am a big fan of the DMT plates, as they are perfectly flat (and you know whatever you are honing is going to have a flat bevel) and they cut very quickly.

IF/WHEN I am taking nicks our of edges, or working with a HORRIBLE uneven spine, like that of a wacker - I use my DMT coarse, fine, extra fine, and extra extra fine plates. I have nortons and the like - but the dmt's work better for me.

 

[Magruder]

When you say "good size ding", what size are we talking about here? Unless it's huge you should be able to take it out with a Norton 4K or the DMT EE (if it cuts as fast as I've heard it cut).

The razor was closed or nearly closed when it slipped out of my hand and landed on a rug on the flat of the scales. The flat side of the blade impacted into the scales, and there's a tear in the edge (looks like torn tinfoil) about 5/16 of an inch long, and 1/32 of an inch deep into the blade. That would be just under 1 mm, as best as I can measure it.

Nice work, if I can say so myself...

 

[Magruder]

2 dings in 6 months

Not just but followed by

IF you want to get rid of a ding, depending on the size of the ding, even with REALLY aggressive hones (Like a DMT Coarse or Extra Coarse) it can be a very laborious process.

Well, I don't want to kid myself about this. Sounds like honing this out may be more trouble than it's worth. Since I need to get a hone anyway, I'll probably get the DMT 8k. That lot of 7 razors will be arriving in a few days, and I can start to get some honing experience.

I'll take a shot at honing the Wapi and see how far I get. If the blade isn't worth salvaging, I'll save the red bone scales and re-use them on something later.

And I'll try not to drop anything else! I spend enough money on this hobby, I don't need to be breaking stuff that works!

 

[Kees]

This is my second major ding in less than six months, and I may as well learn how to fix it.

Do you get your hand wet or even worse, slippery with lather when you shave? Try and keep the razor and the hand that holds it dry.

I agree with Joel: a Wapi is a cheap and cheerful razor, honing dings out is hardly worth the effort nor the expense of new hones unless you plan on restoring razors.

 

[randydance062449]

When I need to remove nicks or old oxidised edges I use wet/dry sandpaper that I have cut to fit on top of the hone.
Generally I use 1000 grit but occasionally use 400-500 grit if it is a large nick ( deeper than the bevel).

I use two different approaches.

1. Bread Slicing - for rapid removal of the nick place the sandpaper down on the hone then pretend that the hone is a loaf of bread and the razor a bread knife and then pretend that you are slicing off the end of the hone. Use a light pressure.
This will result in a nick free edge that is so very dull!
Then go back to using the 500 grit sandpaper on the hone in a normal honing fashion but use a bit of pressure until the edge starts to form. Then switch to a 1000 grit.

2. Start by using the wet 1000 grit sandpaper on top of the hone for 100 laps and note the rate of change. If the amount of change is ok then continue til the nick is no longer visible.
If need be you can drop to the 500 grit and remove a majority of the nick then go to the 1000 to finish the nick removal.

Each of these methods is very slow but does work plus the cost is low. Also, after the visible nick is gone then switch to the 4K stone.


Just my two cents,

 

[randydance062449]

Just one more point.

Some razors simply are not worth the effort.

 

[matt]

I just honed out a minor ding in my wapi no problem Did about 45 laps on 1000 grit wet dry. Now if I could just get the thing to take a nice edge.

 

[randydance062449]

I just honed out a minor ding in my wapi no problem Did about 45 laps on 1000 grit wet dry. Now if I could just get the thing to take a nice edge.

Perform 25 laps on the 4K with some pressure followed by 25 laps with normal pressure.That should result in a noticeable change in the edge. Then start doing some pyramids starting with 10/5, 5/5, 3/5, 1/5,1/5,1/5.
The next session start with 5/5
next 3/5
next 1/5
Perform your sharpness tests frequently.

Hope this helps,

 

[Magruder]

When I need to remove nicks or old oxidised edges I use wet/dry sandpaper that I have cut to fit on top of the hone.
Generally I use 1000 grit but occasionally use 400-500 grit if it is a large nick ( deeper than the bevel).

I use two different approaches.

1. Bread Slicing - for rapid removal of the nick place the sandpaper down on the hone then pretend that the hone is a loaf of bread and the razor a bread knife and then pretend that you are slicing off the end of the hone. Use a light pressure.
This will result in a nick free edge that is so very dull!
Then go back to using the 500 grit sandpaper on the hone in a normal honing fashion but use a bit of pressure until the edge starts to form. Then switch to a 1000 grit.

2. Start by using the wet 1000 grit sandpaper on top of the hone for 100 laps and note the rate of change. If the amount of change is ok then continue til the nick is no longer visible.
If need be you can drop to the 500 grit and remove a majority of the nick then go to the 1000 to finish the nick removal.

Each of these methods is very slow but does work plus the cost is low. Also, after the visible nick is gone then switch to the 4K stone.


Just my two cents,

Randy, thanks for the advice. I gave it a shot -- don't have a hone, but I do have sandpaper.

After trying a couple of grits I ended up with some 180-grit aluminum oxide paper, and scrubbed out the ding in about 15 minutes.

I now have a nice Polish-made letter opener.

Gotta get that hone ordered, and I'll see if I can put an edge back on it. At the very worst I'll have a worthless blade but a bit of experience.

 

[randydance062449]

Randy, thanks for the advice. I gave it a shot -- don't have a hone, but I do have sandpaper.

After trying a couple of grits I ended up with some 180-grit aluminum oxide paper, and scrubbed out the ding in about 15 minutes.

I now have a nice Polish-made letter opener.

Gotta get that hone ordered, and I'll see if I can put an edge back on it. At the very worst I'll have a worthless blade but a bit of experience.

You used what?! 180grit?!

Well,OK. Now realize that you cannot jump to a 1K . You need to hit 2 intermediate grits first, like 320 and 600. Otherwise you will be spending a bunch of time on the 1K.
That 180 grit has now really trashed the edge.

 

[Magruder]

Yeah, I guess that was pretty rash of me.

 

[matt]

Perform 25 laps on the 4K with some pressure followed by 25 laps with normal pressure.That should result in a noticeable change in the edge. Then start doing some pyramids starting with 10/5, 5/5, 3/5, 1/5,1/5,1/5.
The next session start with 5/5
next 3/5
next 1/5
Perform your sharpness tests frequently.

Hope this helps,

Well I did that and a pyrmaid and it was shaving hairs but not popping them.
I got lazy and went to the pastes. after is stropped about 50 laps it was popping hairs like crazy. Is this an edge that you think would last, or was it just because I stropped the razor it was at its pinnacle of sharpness. Tomorrow I am going to strop it 100 on leather only and shave and see how it is.

 

[randydance062449]

Well I did that and a pyrmaid and it was shaving hairs but not popping them.
I got lazy and went to the pastes. after is stropped about 50 laps it was popping hairs like crazy. Is this an edge that you think would last, or was it just because I stropped the razor it was at its pinnacle of sharpness. Tomorrow I am going to strop it 100 on leather only and shave and see how it is.

Let us know how it shaves.

 

[matt]

Two complete passes with the wapi and I am quite pleased. It was the best shave I have had from that razor yet. Not honemeister work yet, but passable!

 

[randydance062449]

Congratulations!

Now you need to fine tune that edge. It is time for some small pyramids. Specifically..

5/7 (5 laps on the 4K followed by 7 laps on the 8K)
3/7
3/7
1/7
1/7
1/7

use the TPT and HHT frequently and stop at any point. Perform
20 laps on paste, clean the razor and then strop on plain leather for not more than 60 laps. More is useless.

If you need it sharper then go back to the pyramid and but start at the 3/7 etc.

Let us know how it shaves

 

[Kees]

If it pops hairs you're obviously almost there. I would do pyramids if it is not yet hair poppingly sharp along the whole length. If it is some more stropping with pastes might be all it takes to get it even sharper.

 

[matt]

I did about 20 laps over some chronium .5 tonight. THe blade provided a good shave better then ever but the edge seemed really harsh. Not sure what this means at all. Maybe I do need a couple pyramids to smooth out the edge, and then hit the pastes again.

 

[randydance062449]

Is this the first time it has felt this harsh?

If so then lets deal with the possibility of overhoning. Go to the plain leather hanging strop and carefully perform 200 laps. Do not use super light pressure. We want to wear off the wire edge if it exists. Sometimes this works.

You might also be using to much pressure when your shaving?