Wow, so is this a "FaTip Floating Head" to rival the Barbasol?
So I ordered the Roedter 1909
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- Start date
Well here it is, 4 days by courier from Germany to U.K. and it's nicely packaged:
As has been pointed out, it's a FaTip with a defective and extremely narrow (17mm wide) top cap.
QC on FaTips is bad but this is ridiculous and the inside of the cap itself isn't even symmetrical:
There's almost no blade curvature and a very large blade extension:
This means an enormous amount of blade flex.
I am a great fan of aggressive razors when the geometry is good.
But initially and untested, the Roedter 1909 just looks like an attempt to sell off some defective stock.
Ha ha @Polarbeard - don't say "I told you so!"
I'm keeping an open mind and the shave test tomorrow morning will be decisive....
As has been pointed out, it's a FaTip with a defective and extremely narrow (17mm wide) top cap.
QC on FaTips is bad but this is ridiculous and the inside of the cap itself isn't even symmetrical:
There's almost no blade curvature and a very large blade extension:
This means an enormous amount of blade flex.
I am a great fan of aggressive razors when the geometry is good.
But initially and untested, the Roedter 1909 just looks like an attempt to sell off some defective stock.
Ha ha @Polarbeard - don't say "I told you so!"
I'm keeping an open mind and the shave test tomorrow morning will be decisive....
I told you so
. It's time for me to go to my morning meeting with a newly honed Heljestrand, but I'm looking forward to read about your encounter with the Roedter, who knows you may like it.
. It's time for me to go to my morning meeting with a newly honed Heljestrand, but I'm looking forward to read about your encounter with the Roedter, who knows you may like it.
Is someone actually taking Fatip razors and modifying them or are these razors a result of bad quality control from the Fatip company?
I'd like to know the answer to this too.
I'm guessing it's a bad batch from the FaTip factory because if someone was deliberately modifying the caps you'd expect better quality...
And I shaved with the Roedter 1909 this morning with a new Astra in it.
As we say here in UK it was "a game of two halves" - the shave felt horrible but the result was stellar:
There was just so much blade feel and chatter that this was a rough and bitey shave which very much reminded me of the Devette.
In the Devette geometry is modified by removing the guard, giving an infinite blade gap. You can reduce blade chatter in the Devette by having a lot of cap curvature and leaving the corners of the guard intact.
But because of the lack of guard, skin stretching is reduced and you have to do that manually to get as close a shave as the very aggressive DEs.
The Roedter comes at this problem the other way - the open Comb is fully intact but the cap width and curvature are reduced, increasing both blade extension and blade gap. (Similarly, the aggression of the 2011 R41 is greater than the 2013 due to narrower cap with less curvature in the 2011).
Because the Comb is present in the Roedter there is a skin stretching effect but not much and because there's so much blade flex the ATG performance is not very good.
For sure this razor has more blade extension and gap than the 2011 R41 but the Roedter's geometry is poor and I doubt that it actually gives a closer shave than that 2011 because of this (shave off to follow...)
The geometry is crucial for these aggressive razors, which is why that stock picture of a DE blade on a chopstick is so misrepresentative of what's actually going on.
If you want to know about good geometry, my previous shave was with a 1921 Gillette New Improved Big Fellow and that's a masterpiece.
It too has a lot of blade feel but the cap and Comb are constructed to give a smooth and beautifully balanced shave.
Unlike the Roedter 1909 which is clearly a razor gone wrong.
As @Polarbeard put it so well "a destroyed FaTip"
So this was a tense, rough and bitey shave BUT THE RESULT IS BRILLIANT!
In the Roedter 1909 shaving video Dan says "I wish you could feel how smooth my face is" and laughs:
My face feels like a marshmallow, almost like a BBS++ and with no irritation whatsoever.
It will be very interesting to see how the longevity of the shave holds up.
So after the first shave, the Roedter 1909 is just a razor gone wrong, a FaTip with issues and (unlike the R41 and Shavecraft Tech) lacks any sense of quality or class.
However if your technique is up to it then it's a whole lot of fun and the end result is an absolutely amazing shave.
This definitely demands further investigation.
Thank you for an excellent review
. My offer still stands.
. My offer still stands.Thanks Arne! I'll send you a PM 
Second shave with the Roedter 1909 and I must admit that it's starting to feel less like a big mistake and more like a happy accident.
It does have obvious and quite serious issues: blade alignment is appalling (as you'd expect from any FaTip) and there's a lot of blade flex which makes shaving ATG a harsh, bitey and hazardous affair.
And there's just so much blade feel that you know this wasn't a deliberate design.
BUT it has a very wide range of effective angles and, with the lightest of touches, gives a shave completely free of irritation delivering a shocking marble-like BBS++
For the first shave I'd used a thick cream with a lot of cushion because that seemed like common sense given that there was so much blade exposure.
For this second shave however I used a very slick watery lather as I do with straights, and got a much better shave so obviously a slick prep is required to get the best from the Roedter 1909.
I'm off to work now with a face that feels like an ice rink
It does have obvious and quite serious issues: blade alignment is appalling (as you'd expect from any FaTip) and there's a lot of blade flex which makes shaving ATG a harsh, bitey and hazardous affair.
And there's just so much blade feel that you know this wasn't a deliberate design.
BUT it has a very wide range of effective angles and, with the lightest of touches, gives a shave completely free of irritation delivering a shocking marble-like BBS++
For the first shave I'd used a thick cream with a lot of cushion because that seemed like common sense given that there was so much blade exposure.
For this second shave however I used a very slick watery lather as I do with straights, and got a much better shave so obviously a slick prep is required to get the best from the Roedter 1909.
I'm off to work now with a face that feels like an ice rink
So I just shaved the left side of my face with the Roedter 1909 and the right side with the 2011 Muhle R41 to make a direct comparison:
It's way to early to tell yet how they'll compare - obviously the Roedter has more blade exposure and gap but the 2011 has deliberate and well thought out geometry so might give a better shave in the longer term.
And ha ha the Roedter 1909 really does make the 2011 R41 feel like a mild razor by comparison.
Just like when you'r driving at 120mph and go down to 80mph you feel like you're going slow, switching from the Roedter to the Muhle felt like switching from the Shavecraft Tech to the Gillette Tech!
And there's so many questions about the origin of the Roedter 1909.
There's a big discussion from 2014 on the shavingsociety forum but it's in Flemish so I don't understand it!
The suggestion there is that this was just a bad batch of 500 ruined FaTips which got offloaded to Scharferladen who rebranded them and marketed it as something deliberate.
But then there's a German gut-rasiert forum thread on the Roedter 1909 which goes back to 2008.
So have these razors been around since 2008?
Why haven't we discussed them more here before?
Are there only 500 of them which were just a defective bunch of FaTips?
Or are they now being deliberately manufactured since they are still available?
It's way to early to tell yet how they'll compare - obviously the Roedter has more blade exposure and gap but the 2011 has deliberate and well thought out geometry so might give a better shave in the longer term.
And ha ha the Roedter 1909 really does make the 2011 R41 feel like a mild razor by comparison.
Just like when you'r driving at 120mph and go down to 80mph you feel like you're going slow, switching from the Roedter to the Muhle felt like switching from the Shavecraft Tech to the Gillette Tech!
And there's so many questions about the origin of the Roedter 1909.
There's a big discussion from 2014 on the shavingsociety forum but it's in Flemish so I don't understand it!
The suggestion there is that this was just a bad batch of 500 ruined FaTips which got offloaded to Scharferladen who rebranded them and marketed it as something deliberate.
But then there's a German gut-rasiert forum thread on the Roedter 1909 which goes back to 2008.
So have these razors been around since 2008?
Why haven't we discussed them more here before?
Are there only 500 of them which were just a defective bunch of FaTips?
Or are they now being deliberately manufactured since they are still available?
I asked these questions directly to Scharferladen.de and got a helpful reply from the Susann, the boss.
She said that she ordered these razors many years ago directly in Italy but that this model was never generally distributed since customer feedback suggested that it was too dangerous.
So the Roedter 1909 is limited old stock.
And possibly it was a deliberate design innovation by FaTip which didn't gain general popularity due to the excessive aggression of the razor.
Ha ha - I am really growing to love the Roedter 1909!
She said that she ordered these razors many years ago directly in Italy but that this model was never generally distributed since customer feedback suggested that it was too dangerous.
So the Roedter 1909 is limited old stock.
And possibly it was a deliberate design innovation by FaTip which didn't gain general popularity due to the excessive aggression of the razor.
Ha ha - I am really growing to love the Roedter 1909!
What else could be possible, knowing you liked "DE Shavette" and other unsafety razors
."Unsafety razors" is a great name for theseWhat else could be possible, knowing you liked "DE Shavette" and other unsafety razors
And Susann at Scharfeladen has a great sense of humour too!
When I thanked her for her reply and for stocking these excellent razors she said that most men hated her for supplying razors that cut their faces
When I thanked her for her reply and for stocking these excellent razors she said that most men hated her for supplying razors that cut their faces
Sounds like you have a collector's item!
Yes! And thanks to the kindness and generosity of @Polarbeard I now have a gunmetal finish version too.
And guess what - the Roedter 1909 even has a Japanese supplier:
Roedter 1909 Gold - 五時の影 5 o'clock shadow
Who knew?
And guess what - the Roedter 1909 even has a Japanese supplier:
Roedter 1909 Gold - 五時の影 5 o'clock shadow
Who knew?
Shush, Don't tell anyone. I'm trying hard to be The Grumpy Old Bastard.
Ha ha - thanks Arne!Shush, Don't tell anyone. I'm trying hard to be The Grumpy Old Bastard.
Having received this wonderful gift from @Polarbeard I decided to shave with the Titanium finish Roedter this morning:
Ha ha - I carelessly gashed my cheek with the corner of the blade as soon as I placed the razor on my face.
I guess this means the Roedter 1909 likes me
The shave was absolutely superb and the very best neck shave I can get from a DE.
This razor is SO LOUD and as well as steep angle shaving it allows for obtuse angle shaving - it will still just about cut with the handle angled TOWARDS the face. Crazy!
Zero irritation mirror-like BBS.
I'm blaming the initial gash on the Kai blade - the Kais have a weird voodoo to them.
They're a bit thicker and wider than most DE blades and they feel rigid like an Injector blade (although it's hard to really work out why this should be).
I've also got the Roedter in gold finish now too...
...This is an exceptional razor.
Ha ha - I carelessly gashed my cheek with the corner of the blade as soon as I placed the razor on my face.
I guess this means the Roedter 1909 likes me
The shave was absolutely superb and the very best neck shave I can get from a DE.
This razor is SO LOUD and as well as steep angle shaving it allows for obtuse angle shaving - it will still just about cut with the handle angled TOWARDS the face. Crazy!
Zero irritation mirror-like BBS.
I'm blaming the initial gash on the Kai blade - the Kais have a weird voodoo to them.
They're a bit thicker and wider than most DE blades and they feel rigid like an Injector blade (although it's hard to really work out why this should be).
I've also got the Roedter in gold finish now too...
...This is an exceptional razor.
Once at another shave forum I also falsely said that KAI blades are thicker than other blades and I quickly learned from those that actually have measured that KAI got the very same thickness as all other blades.
I agree that they feel more rigid. Maybe they are hardened in another way than most other blades? They seem to keep better edge than most other blades, meaning they are probably harder.
For sure... there are minor variations in blade thickness.
Kais, Personnas and Voskhod are at the top of the range but the variations are so small that it wouldn't explain the radically different feel of the Kais.
As you say, they must be hardened differently or even a different steel composition...
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