Photo Analysis of Razor Designs

[Haiku]

Hey good work , Porter. Thanks! We prob should put that one on the wiki, instead of my original.

I really appreciate the wonderful, detailed work done here, but I really don't think this should be posted in the wiki. Frankly, I doubt it should be posted in this thread the way it's labelled. I think it should be clearly labelled as illusion and unrelated to reality. jamesspro has explained, this is not the way that the razor works, it's an illusion.

People who don't own one of these razors will be confused as to how the razor works. I own a number of fatboys, and I was confused about what I was looking at.

 

[jamesspo]

Porter's modified version addresses this.

I really appreciate the wonderful, detailed work done here, but I really don't think this should be posted in the wiki. Frankly, I doubt it should be posted in this thread the way it's labelled. I think it should be clearly labelled as illusion and unrelated to reality. jamesspro has explained, this is not the way that the razor works, it's an illusion.

People who don't own one of these razors will be confused as to how the razor works. I own a number of fatboys, and I was confused about what I was looking at.

 

[Haiku]

Ah, no, I don't think so, his version is even more problematic. It is even less reaslistic than the original.

Porter's modified version addresses this.

 

[MacDaddy]

Ah, no, I don't think so, his version is even more problematic. It is even less reaslistic than the original.

In what way, exactly? The original wasn't an "illusion," per se -- it just fixed the wrong frame of reference. The shot was framed around the part of the razor that moves during adjustment. My version resolves that by fixing the position of the parts of the razor that don't move during adjustment, so what you see moving are exactly the parts that do:

1. Twisting the dial moves it up and down along the handle.
2. The adjustment plate rests on top of the dial and so moves up and down with it.
3. The door assembly closes at the point where it hits the prongs of the adjustment plate (which, as stated above is raised or lowered by the dial) and the blade is pinched between them.

The "illusion" in the original was that the guard bars raised and lowered as the razor was adjusted, when really they stay fixed to the razor's handle, and since not much of the handle was showing it was easy to miss that it was also moving up and down. It was "reality" -- just from a different point of view. I've fixed the point of view.

 

[jamesspo]

Yep, exactly. Both are "correct"....it just depends on your frame of reference. Porter's version is the more useful one, as it represents what you see if you're holding the razor by the handle.

In what way, exactly? The original wasn't an "illusion," per se -- it just fixed the wrong frame of reference. The shot was framed around the part of the razor that moves during adjustment. My version resolves that by fixing the position of the parts of the razor that don't move during adjustment, so what you see moving are exactly the parts that do:

1. Twisting the dial moves it up and down along the handle.
2. The adjustment plate rests on top of the dial and so moves up and down with it.
3. The door assembly closes at the point where it hits the prongs of the adjustment plate (which, as stated above is raised or lowered by the dial) and the blade is pinched between them.

The "illusion" in the original was that the guard bars raised and lowered as the razor was adjusted, when really they stay fixed to the razor's handle, and since not much of the handle was showing it was easy to miss that it was also moving up and down. It was "reality" -- just from a different point of view. I've fixed the point of view.

 

[Haiku]

This is precisely what illusion is all about. The original animation is perfectly accurate and like a magic trick, like a sleight of hand, it is an illusion. It is completely accurate and at the same time it is completely false. That's what makes it art. It's not reality, but rather it's artifice.

By suspending the razor, you change the frame of reference and you change the way that the razor seems to work. This is sleight of hand. This is what makes it art. It illustrates something in a way that makes one look at it differently. But only if you know what you're looking at.

The animation seems to show that the entire head moves up and down relative to the guard bar. And that's a wonderful piece of creative animation. In reality, when the razor is in normal use, the razor is not suspended and in normal use the head doesn't move relative to the guard bar. The parts simply do not move that way. The razor simply doesn't work that way.

The reality is that the original animation is perfectly accurate but it's perfectly accurate when the razor is suspended in that style holder, and because razors are not used while suspended, while the animation is true and therefore reflective of reality, it is at the same time, completely false because it gives a completely wrong interpretation of how the razor works.

It's a wonderful piece of art. It isn't however illustrative of how the razor works when it is used normally.

I enjoy it as something that's quite well done, that took a great deal of work, as something that in a way is sort of funny. Knowing how the razor actually works, it's like looking at a sleight of hand trick with a disappearing ball. It's a visual pun. It's an animation that's reality but done in a way that's completely false. And that's really rather wonderful. But it isn't something that should be promoted as reality in that people who don't already own one of these razors will be to say the least, confused.

QUOTE=MacDaddy;4459370]In what way, exactly? The original wasn't an "illusion," per se -- it just fixed the wrong frame of reference. The shot was framed around the part of the razor that moves during adjustment. My version resolves that by fixing the position of the parts of the razor that don't move during adjustment, so what you see moving are exactly the parts that do:

1. Twisting the dial moves it up and down along the handle.
2. The adjustment plate rests on top of the dial and so moves up and down with it.
3. The door assembly closes at the point where it hits the prongs of the adjustment plate (which, as stated above is raised or lowered by the dial) and the blade is pinched between them.

The "illusion" in the original was that the guard bars raised and lowered as the razor was adjusted, when really they stay fixed to the razor's handle, and since not much of the handle was showing it was easy to miss that it was also moving up and down. It was "reality" -- just from a different point of view. I've fixed the point of view.[/QUOTE]

 

[Haiku]

As an aside in all of this: My real problem to the extent I have a problem is that the thread is entitled "Photo Analysis". The animation is not explained in a manner that permits people who don't already own one of these razors any possibility of analysis. It's a wonderful analysis of the razor's movements while the razor is suspended in a particular type of holder. And so from that point of view it is "analysis". But here's the problem: the animation wasn't explained that way. If the thread was about creatively showing how the razor's parts operate under different condtions, indeed completely artifiical conditions, then great. But we already had someone thinking that this should be in the wiki as, I assume, an illustration of how a fatboy works. And so while the animation is perfectly accurate, at the same time, it's perfectly inaccurate.

This is precisely what illusion is all about. The original animation is perfectly accurate and like a magic trick, like a sleight of hand, it is an illusion. It is completely accurate and at the same time it is completely false. That's what makes it art. It's not reality, but rather it's artifice.

By suspending the razor, you change the frame of reference and you change the way that the razor seems to work. This is sleight of hand. This is what makes it art. It illustrates something in a way that makes one look at it differently. But only if you know what you're looking at.

The animation seems to show that the entire head moves up and down relative to the guard bar. And that's a wonderful piece of creative animation. In reality, when the razor is in normal use, the razor is not suspended and in normal use the head doesn't move relative to the guard bar. The parts simply do not move that way. The razor simply doesn't work that way.

The reality is that the original animation is perfectly accurate but it's perfectly accurate when the razor is suspended in that style holder, and because razors are not used while suspended, while the animation is true and therefore reflective of reality, it is at the same time, completely false because it gives a completely wrong interpretation of how the razor works.

It's a wonderful piece of art. It isn't however illustrative of how the razor works when it is used normally.

I enjoy it as something that's quite well done, that took a great deal of work, as something that in a way is sort of funny. Knowing how the razor actually works, it's like looking at a sleight of hand trick with a disappearing ball. It's a visual pun. It's an animation that's reality but done in a way that's completely false. And that's really rather wonderful. But it isn't something that should be promoted as reality in that people who don't already own one of these razors will be to say the least, confused.

QUOTE=MacDaddy;4459370]In what way, exactly? The original wasn't an "illusion," per se -- it just fixed the wrong frame of reference. The shot was framed around the part of the razor that moves during adjustment. My version resolves that by fixing the position of the parts of the razor that don't move during adjustment, so what you see moving are exactly the parts that do:

1. Twisting the dial moves it up and down along the handle.
2. The adjustment plate rests on top of the dial and so moves up and down with it.
3. The door assembly closes at the point where it hits the prongs of the adjustment plate (which, as stated above is raised or lowered by the dial) and the blade is pinched between them.

The "illusion" in the original was that the guard bars raised and lowered as the razor was adjusted, when really they stay fixed to the razor's handle, and since not much of the handle was showing it was easy to miss that it was also moving up and down. It was "reality" -- just from a different point of view. I've fixed the point of view.

[/QUOTE]

 

[MacDaddy]

It's a wonderful piece of art. It isn't however illustrative of how the razor works when it is used normally.

I enjoy it as something that's quite well done, that took a great deal of work, as something that in a way is sort of funny. Knowing how the razor actually works, it's like looking at a sleight of hand trick with a disappearing ball. It's a visual pun. It's an animation that's reality but done in a way that's completely false. And that's really rather wonderful. But it isn't something that should be promoted as reality in that people who don't already own one of these razors will be to say the least, confused.

Confused... yes...

I'm sorry... I really don't see what it is that you think is "unreal" about it as an illustration of exactly how the adjustment of a standard Fatboy works. Is it that you think that people would believe that if they just held the razor in front of their face that it would adjust itself?

The modified animation shows exactly what it purports to -- the parts of the Fatboy that move when it is adjusted in relation to the parts that don't. What about it is fanciful or illusory?

Or, to come at it from a different angle entirely, how is it that you believe a Fatboy actually works that causes you to see this as a magic trick?

 

[Haiku]

Confused... yes...

I'm sorry... I really don't see what it is that you think is "unreal" about it as an illustration of exactly how the adjustment of a standard Fatboy works. Is it that you think that people would believe that if they just held the razor in front of their face that it would adjust itself?

The modified animation shows exactly what it purports to -- the parts of the Fatboy that move when it is adjusted in relation to the parts that don't. What about it is fanciful or illusory?

Or, to come at it from a different angle entirely, how is it that you believe a Fatboy actually works that causes you to see this as a magic trick?

If one holds a fatboy by the handle and one turns the adjuster the bottom plate moves. And that's all that moves. The head does not move. The animation, while completely accurate, does not show this. That's what makes this art. It is truth. It is reality and it is completely and utterly confusing. It makes one see the razor in a completely differently than everyday reality. I have to confess that I was very surprised that the razor could be shown in a way that surpised me. I thought I knew that model razor inside out.

So to come at this from a different angle I should perhaps say this: for me to say that this is art is for me to pay the highest compliment I know. I do not denigrate illusion or magic, quite the contrary. Things are called magic when they are magical. This is magical.

 

[MacDaddy]

If one holds a fatboy by the handle and one turns the adjuster the bottom plate moves. And that's all that moves. The head does not move.

Well this is where you're wrong. The parts move exactly as I described them here:

1. Twisting the dial moves it up and down along the handle.
2. The adjustment plate rests on top of the dial and so moves up and down with it.
3. The door assembly closes at the point where it hits the prongs of the adjustment plate (which, as stated above is raised or lowered by the dial) and the blade is pinched between them.

You may not notice the fact that the doors close higher up on 9 than they do on 1 but that's exactly the point of this series of photos -- they do. And the adjustment plate only moves up and down because it rests free-floating on top of the adjustment dial, which itself travels up and down as it's turned.

 

[jamesspo]

Ok, so I think I understand what you're saying. What happens in the animation is not literally a sped up version of what happens in real life, as that sequence is really created by the steps of open TTO, adjust, close TTO, TTO rests in new position. That is true. In that sense, yes the animation is not "real". It's just shows the aggregate affect of doing the above steps, and skipping the opening and closing of the TTO. It kind of depends on what sort of abstraction space your brain operates in. When I adjust my Fatboy up and down, and think about what's happening with the razor, I see exactly what is depicted in the modified animation Porter put together. I dont know.. I guess it's just the way I think. At the same time, when I go down the road in my car, I don't really see road... I see a signal on the X axis, stimulating an LRC electrical circuit that models the springs, mass, and dampers of my suspension .

Edit: And if I think really hard about it, I can sort of make out the Fourier transform of that signal. But that takes more work than I should be engaging in while driving

If one holds a fatboy by the handle and one turns the adjuster the bottom plate moves. And that's all that moves. The head does not move. The animation, while completely accurate, does not show this. That's what makes this art. It is truth. It is reality and it is completely and utterly confusing. It makes one see the razor in a completely differently than everyday reality. I have to confess that I was very surprised that the razor could be shown in a way that surpised me. I thought I knew that model razor inside out.

So to come at this from a different angle I should perhaps say this: for me to say that this is art is for me to pay the highest compliment I know. I do not denigrate illusion or magic, quite the contrary. Things are called magic when they are magical. This is magical.

 

[vferdman]

This is fantastically good stuff. Any plans to do other razors? Maybe modern ones like EJ DE89 or Merkur 34C? What a revelation about the New LC vs SC. The short comb actually has less blade exposure than the long comb. I just started using a long comb New and it was pretty aggressive for me having only used Superspeeds, Techs and EJ DE89 types. Now I would like to try a short comb New. Incredible pictures and analysis. Thanks you. Any chance of analyzing a Red Tip? I just picked up an English Superspeed Red Tip and am curious about its blade exposure and angle vs the regular 40's SS or the flare tip SS.

 

[rajagra]

Analysis of my Slim:

• The guard bar/plate is fixed relative to the handle.
• The adjuster ring itself moves up/down as you turn it.
• The adjuster ring sets the final height of the base plate - and the 4 base plate 'nubs' that protrude through the guard plate into the blade area.
• The closing mechanism pulls the silo doors and blade down onto the 4 nubs on the base plate, setting the final height of the blade and doors.
• The base plate, blade and doors always end up forming an integrated unit - these parts never change in position relative to each other. The blade angle stays constant.

The picture in this post is 100% correct. (Ignore what little is showing of the razor stand.)



P.S. I just saw that I'm repeating what MacDaddy said in post 105, so I'm confirming that view.
This modified animation is a great illustration of how adjustment works on the Fatboy/Slim.
The literal effect is to raise/lower the blade and doors (which form a head cap.)
The functional/virtual effect (from the user's perspective) is to move the guard bars up/down - it's OK to think of it this way to decide which setting to use, but it isn't what really happens.

 

[Haiku]

All of this is right if and only if the razor is suspended from a stand. Not if one uses the razor as it's designed to be used, that is, held in one's hand.

Try this: hold the razor in your hand, loosen the silo doors, turn the adjuster. All that happens is that the four posts move up and down. The head assembly does not move. The safety bar does not move up and down relative to the doors. The bottom plate does not stay in a stationary postion while everything else moves. All that happens if and only if the razor is suspended on a stand.

I bet if you were to ask 100 people what this animation demonstrates, all 100 will tell you that this animation gives the impression that one can load a blade, close down the silo doors and turn the adjuster knob and the head assembly will move up and down relative to the safety bar. And all 100 would be 100% wrong. Neither the fatboy or the slim actually work that way.



QUOTE=rajagra;4460896]Analysis of my Slim:

• The guard bar/plate is fixed relative to the handle.
• The adjuster ring itself moves up/down as you turn it.
• The adjuster ring sets the final height of the base plate - and the 4 base plate 'nubs' that protrude through the guard plate into the blade area.
• The closing mechanism pulls the silo doors and blade down onto the 4 nubs on the base plate, setting the final height of the blade and doors.
• The base plate, blade and doors always end up forming an integrated unit - these parts never change in position relative to each other. The blade angle stays constant.

The picture in this post is 100% correct. (Ignore what little is showing of the razor stand.)



P.S. I just saw that I'm repeating what MacDaddy said in post 105, so I'm confirming that view.
This modified animation is a great illustration of how adjustment works on the Fatboy/Slim.
The literal effect is to raise/lower the blade and doors (which form a head cap.)
The functional/virtual effect (from the user's perspective) is to move the guard bars up/down - it's OK to think of it this way to decide which setting to use, but it isn't what really happens.[/QUOTE]

 

[rajagra]

All of this is right if and only if the razor is suspended from a stand. Not if one uses the razor as it's designed to be used, that is, held in one's hand.

I was holding my razor in my hand. I assure you that what I described does happen.

Try this: hold the razor in your hand, loosen the silo doors, turn the adjuster. All that happens is that the four posts move up and down. The head assembly does not move. The safety bar does not move up and down relative to the doors. The bottom plate does not stay in a stationary postion while everything else moves.

I tried that. You are right. But that is entirely consistent with what I said earlier. (When you say the four posts move you of course mean the base plate - which they are a part of - moves too.)

I bet if you were to ask 100 people what this animation demonstrates, all 100 will tell you that this animation gives the impression that one can load a blade, close down the silo doors and turn the adjuster knob and the head assembly will move up and down relative to the safety bar. And all 100 would be 100% wrong. Neither the fatboy or the slim actually work that way.

Well 100 of us would be right, and you'd be wrong. You can do exactly what you described. I've just done it! You shouldn't, because it will cause excessive wear to the thread of the adjuster ring. I bet many people do adjustments with the mechanism tightened. I did at first, then I realised it was a bad idea.

Try this. Set the razor to 1. Close the doors up tight. Put your thumb and one finger under the base plate (with the adjuster ring/handle inbetween them.) Push the baseplate up. The head moves up and down relative to the safety bar.
In this example, your finger + thumb are doing what the adjuster ring normally does for you.

 

[anaguma]

Very informative. This could be a great time and money saver.

 

[David01965x]

^
That is cool!

 

[David01965x]

^
Well done!

 

[mkiraly]

Wow, excellent analysis and photos/diagrams, thanks a lot for all your hard work!

 

[Jasman]

Very nice analysis, Bill. I'd love to see you include more brands, like Merkur and FaTip.