Yes.
Muhle R41,The combined thread
- Thread starter noahpictures
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Yes.
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- #42
Are you referring to the 2011 Muhle R41? I use about a 5 degree angle at most. Put the razor under your sideburn with zero angle (head of razor parallel to the floor) and see if you can feel the blade against your skin; if you can then you don't need to adjust the angle.
+1. I use a very shallow angle as well when I use the tooth comb. You should do whatever works best for you since everyone is different.
+2 I agree with Noah and James. I use the shallowest angle I can manage. It seems to work well, prolong blade life and eliminate the possibility of irritation.
Ah, I think I finally get what everyone says when they refer to shallow or steep angle, and I suppose I had it backwards. I thought steep meant blade almost parallel to face ~5-10 degrees or so, now I see everyone refers to this as "shallow".
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- #46
I think a better way to explain it is to use a less aggressive angle. I might be responsible for some of the confusion.
These terms have always meant nothing to me; I'm glad that Noah drew a picture.
I just do what works, judging by the sound of the razor and how much lather is removed by each stroke. I'll have to pay closer attention to the angle and see if I'm doing anything special with the R41. I really don't know.
I think some people are referring to handle angle, while others refer to blade angle and the two are not congruent. I shave the R41 like Gem portrayed with the 2nd gen Micromatics- cap almost flat to face.
Glad you brought this up. I was in the same boat. I always think in terms of blade angle to the face. 90 be perpendicular and 0 being parallel. Definitely an important difference when it comes to the R41. Probably one of my most aggressive razors. Today was my second day shaving with it. The first time, the R41 took a pretty good bite out of my neck. Today was my second time. I showed a lot of patience with it making sure the angle was perfect. Had a couple little dribblers but nothing major. This is the complete opposite end of the spectrum from the Merkur 34C. With that razor I can shave half asleep and still not come close the cutting myself. The R41 will bite if you give it a sneery eye. Love both. Just got to treat them differently.
I shaved again with the R41 tonight (too soon) and switched to my #15 on the second pass. I had to look at my #15 because it felt like I was shaving with an unloaded razor!
Yeah that is a big YMMV that steeper angle for most will lead to razor burn because the amount of blade exposure on this. You will wreck the blade in no time with a steeper angle which is why I think so many of us have problems with blade longevity. The shallower the angle the more gentle or rather mild the shave will be and since the blade is so flimsy a shallow angle will work better to help it not dull by way of "rounding" the edge.
Nice pictures. Not-so-good advice, IMO. Shallow is what I go for. Too steep irritates.
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I think there's more than one way to skin a cat. At 0 degrees, the blade is not touching the face or barely touches the face. One has to increase the angle until it does. For some people, this happens at 5 degrees and for others it happens at 15 degrees. It's been a while since I shaved with the R41 but from what I remember, I used a shallow angle or even a slightly negative angle.
Instead of starting at 0 degrees, you can start at 90 degrees, have the top plate of the razor pressed against your skin and have the handle sticking straight out from your face. At this steep angle, the blade again should not be touching your skin. Then, you can slowly decrease the angle until it does.
Let me know if I'm talking out of my arse here. I don't have my R41 so I'm unable to test this myself or take pictures.
EDIT: It looks like I was incorrect in my description of what a steep angle and what a shallow angle is and I got them reversed.
Instead of starting at 0 degrees, you can start at 90 degrees, have the top plate of the razor pressed against your skin and have the handle sticking straight out from your face. At this steep angle, the blade again should not be touching your skin. Then, you can slowly decrease the angle until it does.
Let me know if I'm talking out of my arse here. I don't have my R41 so I'm unable to test this myself or take pictures.
EDIT: It looks like I was incorrect in my description of what a steep angle and what a shallow angle is and I got them reversed.
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Sorry you can't currently test your R41, but thanks for lending out the beast to me!
This is where my confusion always came from- some people use the handle when referring to shallow or steep, others refer to blade angle. When I read your descrition and visualize the handle at 90 degrees to the face (handle parallel to floor), I refer to that blade angle as shallow per ras120's illustration, not steep. Steep would personally give me crazy razor burn with the blade gap on this razor, like scrubbing my face with the edge of a hoe. Resting this razor on the tooth comb is too steep a blade angle. I found I had to use the cap as the guide for blade angle- my skin never touches that comb.
I'm only two shaves in on this razor, so I am no pro whatsoever but my ears and face tell me shallow blade angle is what works.
On a side note, I was surprised this razor was as large as it is. I feel the light hollow handle is lacking a nice balance to the heavy head. I think the BRW handles are the ticket for these.
I can't even shave with a guard bar razor anymore after using nothing but an open comb for the past year.
As far as my experience goes (with open combs it general), shallower is better. It seems counter-intuitive, I know. My advice is to forget all the armchair theory and find the angle that works best for your face. I do like the idea James put forth of starting with a steep angle and reducing it till the sweet spot is found.
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According to the ShaveWiki, I got the descriptions of shallow angle and steep angle mixed up in post #15. I was thinking of the angle between the blade and the floor. Instead, I should have been thinking of the angle between the skin and the blade.
Here are the pictures showing the ideal angle, ~30°.
Hence this is a steep angle, 90°.
This is a shallow angle, 0°.
Here are the pictures showing the ideal angle, ~30°.
Hence this is a steep angle, 90°.
This is a shallow angle, 0°.
So you shave with the blade edge pointed directly at your skin?
We're all saying the same thing, but the degree of the angle is being determined from different starting points. My starting point is by holding the razor with the guard bar at a 90° angle to my face and then raising it upward (steeper) to the proper position to shave. Everybody else seems to have a starting point of having the top of the razor against their faces and then lowering the razor downward (shallower) to the proper position for shaving.
I thought my pictures would make this a little clearer since there is confusion on what is meant by "steeper" and "shallower" because we're not all measuring the angle from the same starting point. Or maybe I'm the only one who is an oddball.
I like the blade nearly parallel to my face rather than scraping against it like a garden hoe. Agreed?
Good discussion of an often confusing point.
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Thanks gentleman for clarifying this. I am not the brightest bulb in the pack the the R41 blade angle is kind of confusing. Guess I'll have to actually use it now!
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