Ivory sales and us... New ban is looking like it's going to be in effect

[cleanshaved]

I have given up on the idea of owning a straight with ivory. Have not seen one locally and importing into NZ is just not a option for me.
Just checked our customs site and it is listed as all banned unless you have a permit. Did not check how to get a permit but would think that any sale would fall over while trying to get one, if you could get one at all.

Never mind there are many other great options for scales.

 

[GreekGuy]

I don't condemn the effort on a large scale to stop the illegal trade. But short of radiocarbon dating which is prohibitively expensive, how would it even be possible to date such things? 60 years ago, much less 100 years ago, there was no "documentation." Its essentially a de facto ban. If the scales are on a razor thats over 100 years old and theres real solid proof of that, such as the switch from Sheffield to Sheffield, England for example, perhaps theres a little bit of ground to stand on. But even then its an arbitrary judgment call at best.

 

[oakeshott]

Any lawyers here? The document says it's a ban on "commercial" sales? I don't know that this applies to private sales.

 

[mrb7]

Any lawyers here? The document says it's a ban on "commercial" sales? I don't know that this applies to private sales.

Can it be far behind. Since when does central government get less rather than more onerous?

Just like my apology in another thread to the TSA front line guys, who get the brunt of public discontent for rules made by "invisible people" far removed from the front line, there will be a spate of lunatic enforcement problems. And the poor suckers who will be blamed are the blokes who get up and go to work for a living, not the ill thought out rules from the rule makers. Who is going to declare "this sale is private" but "that sale is commercial" in nature?

 

[Thomas Martin]

Ivory? What is Ivory? Do you mean "the natural material that is not bone" or "the natural material that we all love"?

 

[Lmarkow]

I love ivory. But with all this news I have been wondering if my acquisition old ivory razors is encouraging illegal trade somehow? I suspect arguments and explanations can be made on both sides, but I lean towards erring on the safe side and will not purchase any more elephant ivory.

But I still wonder: Does legal trade in ivory, mammoth for instance, encourage illegal trade in other ivories?

Here is the gov. press release: http://www.doi.gov/news/pressreleas...t-to-combat-poaching-wildlife-trafficking.cfm

 

[Chaloney]

Heeso, thanks for sharing this information.

I love ivory. But with all this news I have been wondering if my acquisition old ivory razors is encouraging illegal trade somehow? I suspect arguments and explanations can be made on both sides, but I lean towards erring on the safe side and will not purchase any more elephant ivory.

But I still wonder: Does legal trade in ivory, mammoth for instance, encourage illegal trade in other ivories?

+ 1 on not purchasing any. Besides Larry's reasons, it's just too expensive for me for a tool or a hobby. I also wondered if the ban would effect fossilized ivory and how they could tell the difference

 

[alpster]

I have now bought and sold over 100 razors and ALL of them were mailed (a couple via UPS & Fedex). Not a single one was opened in a search for anything. For the post office to arbitrarily open a package to search for illegal ivory, would give the Post Office rights that law enforcement doesn't have. Search and seizure, without warrant or probable cause, likely just won't happen. I think the odds are miniscule that this will become a big issue. It's been illegal to mail aftershave (flammable) for years, but it's being advertised in the BST daily. I agree with Sliceoflife, this is purely political and has no value in the real world. JMHO

 

[Chaloney]

I have now bought and sold over 100 razors and ALL of them were mailed (a couple via UPS & Fedex). Not a single one was opened in a search for anything. For the post office to arbitrarily open a package to search for illegal ivory, would give the Post Office rights that law enforcement doesn't have. Search and seizure, without warrant or probable cause, likely just won't happen. I think the odds are miniscule that this will become a big issue. It's been illegal to mail aftershave (flammable) for years, but it's being advertised in the BST daily. I agree with Sliceoflife, this is purely political and has no value in the real world. JMHO

I think the points were 1. Ivory as a raw material is likely to become scarce very soon. 2. Like any other choice, you must weigh risk vs reward/benefit. He is just trying to help everyone stay appraised of potential changes in the level of risk. Each must decide his/her own comfort with that risk

 

[BakerAndBadger]

Today it's sales, down the road it'll be about possession. It's always an incremental shift.

I heard that is true too.
Here in Belgium they don't care - I've received 3 seven day sets in ivory (still 2 1/2 in my possession).
To be on the safe side please send all your ivory clad shaving equipment to me. PM me for my address

 

[mrb7]

For the post office to arbitrarily open a package to search for illegal ivory, would give the Post Office rights that law enforcement doesn't have. Search and seizure, without warrant or probable cause, likely just won't happen.

Actually a Postal Inspector can "just open" a package. It's true the probable cause should apply. But the reality is that this is so slippery anyone could make it up.

 

[KW Driver]

I heard that is true too.
Here in Belgium they don't care - I've received 3 seven day sets in ivory (still 2 1/2 in my possession).
To be on the safe side please send all your ivory clad shaving equipment to me. PM me for my address

Oooooooooooooorrrrrrrr.... You should still have my address, so you should send me any ivory clad MKs, 6/8 or larger. I'm quite fond of the 31 I got from you.

 

[BakerAndBadger]

Oooooooooooooorrrrrrrr.... You should still have my address, so you should send me any ivory clad MKs, 6/8 or larger. I'm quite fond of the 31 I got from you.

Nice try. Well you got the right man - I got ivory clad MK's a gogo

 

[Thomas Martin]

Ivory is crap. I hear it gets all yellow and ugly after some time. Not to mention all these police officers that will come soon knocking at your door. Best send them my way for proper disposal.

 

[life2short1971]

If an illegal and bloody trade is to be stopped I would think banning diamonds would be a much better use of time and resources.

 

[Brianskeet]

If an illegal and bloody trade is to be stopped I would think banning diamonds would be a much better use of time and resources.

Only people hurt there. No big gray critters that have to be culled in several locations to prevent their starvation. If they ever get the clue provided by whitetail deer, turkeys, pheasants, quail, elk, big horn sheep, cougar etc etc that legal regulated harvest guarantees money to protect habitat and pay game wardens then elephants will enjoy a long and prosperous future. If not then elephants will always be poached due to lack of funds to protect them.

 

[global_dev]

so is it gonna be a fire sale or like the ammo sales of recent?

 

[life2short1971]

I was wondering the same thing myself after I typed that.

 

[Vercin]

last week they pulverized a lot of confiscated ivory/tusks in France I think .. was all over the news here. Sending a message that it will not be tolerated at all.

 

[Gamma]

Ivory is nice stuff - luxurious with being opulent, and it's got a special feel - but it isn't worth the inevitable headache at this point.

I'll be fine using bone scales when I want/need that look or feel I think.