Is silvertip *worth it*?

[CzechCzar]

You've gotta try a Shavemac in D01, then - amazing with soaps and creams, and just as soft as the Silvertip!

Just to check, this brush feels like a silvertip, without the huge price, correct? Where can I acquire one?

 

[jhclare]

I had an interesting dialogue with Charles from QED.

He said that a lot of so-called Silvertip brushes on the market are anything but.

I complained that my Rooney 3/1 Super (which is my second one, first one was shedder) was prickly at the tips.

He said by definition, Silvertip hair should be firm with very soft tips.

So, one manufacturer's "Silvertip" may not be as strictly graded or of the same quality as a proper Silvertip brush.

I don't mind paying for quality, but I certainly resent being mis-sold something!

John

 

[Legion]

Well, I'm not as much of an expert as some of the guys here but check out my Uber Brush thread. It is the first silvertip I've bought but I can say it does feel different than the pure and best brushes I've tried so far. Is it worth it? I don't know. Is a thousand dollar bottle of wine worth it when it is gone in 20 minutes? Probably depends on your budget. A rich man will tell you yes. A poor man will tell you a $10 bottle will get the job done.

Sometimes it's worth spoiling yourself, though. A good brush will last a lot longer than a bottle of wine.

 

[Emmett]

There reaches a point of diminishing returns. I would pay up to about $120 for a silvertip that had all the specific features I wanted. I would not pay $350 for a Plisson just for the supposed luxurious experience.

 

[Nickelodeon]

Semogue gets no love.

It does from me. The 730 is a great little brush and well worth the money. Their boar brushes seem to get more attention though.

 

[English]

Andy and Hunter,

I'm not trying to wind you guys up. I have tried many shaving brushes and I ofcourse I agree that loft and packing density affects the rigidity of the brush.

But I also think/know that some badger hair is naturally more rigid. I think that the rigid stiffer badger hair makes a better brush for use with hard soaps.
Generally speaking, I have not found the brushes labelled "silver tip" to be of the stiffer, springier badger hair type.

You guys always quote the exceptions to the general rule like Shavemac or Rooney "Super". But generally in my experience, the title "SILVER TIP" delivers a floppy very soft tipped shaving brush.

 

[huntmol]

Just to check, this brush feels like a silvertip, without the huge price, correct? Where can I acquire one?

Actually, D01 is much more expensive!
Although, in my opinion, it is worth it. Get a 21-23mm brush with a loft of 45-55mm and you'll be in love!
Here's a comparison:
Shavemac Genuine Horn Dual Review: D01 & Silvertip

On the other hand, if you'd like a Shavemac for a great price, their Finest hair is excellent and offers a much better value than the Silvertip or D01.
Andy did a great writeup/comparison on the two:
A (possibly) New Idea for Short-Loft Shavemacs

These brushes are available at Shavemac's site:
http://www.shavemac.com/shop/Shaving-Brushes?XTCsid=qrrb5lcfuit79at8ha59mqpbl3
However, to me the best part of a Shavemac brush is that you can email Bernd at [email protected] and tell him the exact specs you'd like - handle, style, hair shape, knot size, loft, and hair type - and create your own perfect brush!

 

[huntmol]

There reaches a point of diminishing returns. I would pay up to about $120 for a silvertip that had all the specific features I wanted. I would not pay $350 for a Plisson just for the supposed luxurious experience.

+1
I wholeheartedly agree. There are many brushes (boar and badger) that can be had for $30 or less than can create shaving lather just as well as the most expensive Rooney or Plisson.

Andy and Hunter,

I'm not trying to wind you guys up. I have tried many shaving brushes and I ofcourse I agree that loft and packing density affects the rigidity of the brush.

But I also think/know that some badger hair is naturally more rigid. I think that the rigid stiffer badger hair makes a better brush for use with hard soaps.
Generally speaking, I have not found the brushes labelled "silver tip" to be of the stiffer, springier badger hair type.

You guys always quote the exceptions to the general rule like Shavemac or Rooney "Super". But generally in my experience, the title "SILVER TIP" delivers a floppy very soft tipped shaving brush.

No worries! Having discussions like this is my favorite part of being a B&B member. It's much more fun when we don't all always agree with each other

I do agree with you that different types of badger hair are more stiff or soft than one another - the problem arises when trying to compare them all, as every manufacturer likes to call their brushes silvertip!
It is for this reason that I believe it necessary to attach a manufacturer's label to whichever type of brush hair that one is trying to evaluate.

 

[CzechCzar]

Methinks that this post is turning into sticky material... please give me more input - this is all invaluable advice.

Thanks!

 

[Shaman]

Don't have nearly the experiance the rest of you do but would like to toss out my two cents worth. For the last month I have been using an omega stripey in best badger and found it too skritchy to actually scrub with. It is, for me at least, a lather making machine and works well with everything I've thrown at it, and the skritchyness is tolerable enough now to do some scrubbing. On the other hand UPS just dropped off an Edwin Jagger silvertip (don't have the model at hand, it's the small $100 one) and it felt great against my face... but the lather was too wet. I know that is because the silvertip holds more water and that with a little practice I'm sure it will be a great lather maker. Was it worth the extra $70? To me yes. The best badger might break in enough eventually to be comfortable but I had more money than patience this time. Besides you can't just have one of anything can you?

 

[MrFusion]

I had an interesting dialogue with Charles from QED.


I complained that my Rooney 3/1 Super (which is my second one, first one was shedder) was prickly at the tips.

He said by definition, Silvertip hair should be firm with very soft tips.

So, one manufacturer's "Silvertip" may not be as strictly graded or of the same quality as a proper Silvertip brush.

I don't mind paying for quality, but I certainly resent being mis-sold something!

John

First let me say that currently my favorite brushes are my Rooney 3/1 Super and my Shavemac D01.
I agree with you on the Rooney. I was surprised at how much more scratchy it was (for a silvertip) than my Shavemac.

Both brushes have a lot of backbone but I prefer the Shavemac's hair quality over the Rooney just a bit more.

 

[moonshine44]

Up to this point, I've extensively used three different brushes. The first was the boar that comes in the Wally World VDH kit. I used that one for a month or so before building a long loft best badger using a Golden Nib knot. Loved that brush, PIFed the boar. So then after a while I started reading about short loft brushes, and decided to build one, using a Golden Nib silvertip knot. That one is a 20 mm knot with 45 to 50 mm of loft, and was going to be my travel brush. I decided to use it for a while, breaking it in as it were, and ended up selling the best and now the silvertip is my only brush. The combination of the soft tips, and relatively stiff backbone due to the short loft, makes it, for me, a great brush. I believe the loft makes all the difference...

I use only soaps, currently either Honeybee Spa or Mama Bear's...

Once again, as they say, YMMV...

 

[grouse79]

I have 3 brushes: 2 boar (Omega, Vulifix 404) and one badger (Tweezerman). The latter was the most expensive at £15 from a department store. I get great results using the badger for creams and the boar for soaps. I see no need to get a more expensive brush. Frankly having a brush that costs over £100 makes me anxious something unpleasant will happen to it eventually.

Right now if any of my brushes get lost or damaged in some way, it's no big deal to replace them and so they're good for travelling too.

 

[Suzuki]

Worth is very subjective and as others have said, its very personal.

If you look around, you'll notice that there are some definite differences as you move up the hair grades.

Pure - skritchiest of the grades and may hold a bit less water than the higher end grades. While these brushes will soften up with use, they will never be as soft as a higher-grade brush.

Mid Grade (depending on the manufacturer, can be called "best" or "finest") - typically noticeably softer tips than the pure and slightly better water retention.

Silvertip - generally soft at the tips often very little difference from the mid-grade brushes aside from cosmetics (ie - whiter tips).

Rarities - these are the very expensive grades such as Plisson's "High Mountain", Rooney "Finest" and Simpson "Two-Band Super". The interesting thing about these grades is that they are often NOT as soft/luxurious as the Mid or Silvertip brushes. They tend to be firmer/scrubbier, but not as skritchy/abrasive as the pure.

There is no standardized grading so quality control/grading varies from one manufacturer to another - for example, my B&B Essential, which is a mid-grade hair is one of the softest brushes I own.

Also, as you move into the better grades of hair, you often get a better, denser knot - for example, my Simpson "Rover" in pure has a much less dense knot than my Duke 2 in best.

In addition to the grade of the hair, the dimensions of the knot play a role in how a brush feels - a finest brush with a longer loft may feel less scrubby than a silver tip with a shorter loft.

Much also depends on what products you prefer and what sort of lathering technique you use - I primarily face lather and generally find pure brushes a little to harsh.

Then into this mix, you have to consider boar brushes (and I'm talking about the "good" ones like the Omegas, Semogues, etc.) I will take one of my boar brushes over a pure brush any day of the week - while they often start out skritchy, the boar hairs split at the ends and soften with use and a well-broken in boar brush is truly a thing of beauty.

The most I've ever paid for a brush is the $150 or so I paid for my 2008 B&B LE - its a very dense brush in a size/shape/grade of hair that I knew would suit me I spent the same amount on a Simpfix two-band super Tulip2 for the same reason. Is it worth it - to me it is, as these are limited production brushes that I knew would work for me.

Other than these two brushes, I've never spent more than about $75 on a brush - which is my limit for a regular production brush.

That being said, I have a Vulfix 404 boar/badger and an Omega professional boar that cost me about $10 each and I think they're great brushes and both see regular use - there's no question that these brushes are worth every penny. In fact, if I was getting into wetshaving on a budget, I'd buy a one or two good boar brushes and leave well-enough alone, as I'd take a good boar brush over a pure badger brush any day of the week (but that's just a personal preference).

Hope this is useful...

 

[heirkb]

After using a pure this week after months of only silvertip, I can definitely answer the title of this thread with: "Yes, at least for me, it's worth it." I can't stand skritchy pure hair, it gives me irritation

 

[nav]

I use a 48mm loft silvertip. It is soft on my face but has a great backbone to use on my soaps (I don't use creams at all).

Its a 20mm knot, I prefer small knots as it is a more precise application. It holds enough lather for my 3 passes and has heaps left over in the end.

I don't find it any more difficult to use on soaps than a boar brush! The experience is nicer for me than a boar for sure.

 

[Emmett]

I use a 48mm loft silvertip. It is soft on my face but has a great backbone to use on my soaps (I don't use creams at all).

Its a 20mm knot, I prefer small knots as it is a more precise application. It holds enough lather for my 3 passes and has heaps left over in the end.

I don't find it any more difficult to use on soaps than a boar brush! The experience is nicer for me than a boar for sure.

+1. I think lofts around 50mm are ideal for providing backbone.

 

[dtb]

I actually find the most important aspect are things like the bristle density and quality. I'd take a good "Pure" badger brush with a great knot over a Silvertip with a mediocre brush knot/densitiy any day. I've have black badger brushes that perform like champs because of the excellent quality and thickness of the bristles. So, go for a high quality bristle head that feels thick (and soft) , not just the catagory of the badger.

 

[andrew98]

Andy and Hunter,

I'm not trying to wind you guys up. I have tried many shaving brushes and I ofcourse I agree that loft and packing density affects the rigidity of the brush.

But I also think/know that some badger hair is naturally more rigid. I think that the rigid stiffer badger hair makes a better brush for use with hard soaps.
Generally speaking, I have not found the brushes labelled "silver tip" to be of the stiffer, springier badger hair type.

You guys always quote the exceptions to the general rule like Shavemac or Rooney "Super". But generally in my experience, the title "SILVER TIP" delivers a floppy very soft tipped shaving brush.

I'm also just enjoying the conversation and everyone's input. No offense taken or anything like that. I know one member who swears his C&E BBB tears up soap more effectively than his short-loft custom Shavemac in D01, so I can see where you're coming from on the hair rigidity issue.

Special hair grades like D01 are definitely exceptional. Firm hair (but maybe just b/c of packing density) with cloud-like tips. I sort of view Rooney Super Silvertip brushes as nearly all B&Bers' standard point of reference for a stiff silvertip brush that, especially over time, has reasonably soft tips. The mid-priced, "everyman" sort of brush. However, I can also agree that it's an exceptional brush in that it's stiff and happens to be graded as silvertip.

Good conversation and source of opinions/info, this thread.

-Andy

 

[ProphetNoir]

First of all, this has been a great thread to read. So much information and so many well thought out responses and opinions. I don't claim to have nearly the expertise as some of my fellow members, but I do have three brushes. An Edwin Jagger Silvertip, an Edwin Jagger Pure Badger, and an AOS badger of questionable grade which came as part of a package. There is nothing in this group like my silvertip - period. I can build good lather with any of them but nothing comes anywhere close to the silvertip feeling on my face. It is beyond indulgence ... it is crack.
The other area where pure badger falls short is how poorly it holds water and therefore lather compared to the silvertip. I get enough lather in the silvertip for more than four passes. The pure badger when loaded with the same amount of cream barely gets me through the second pass. It may have something to do with the heat I subject the brush to in my scuttle, but it is the same heat no matter wihich brush I use and the silvertip just plain outperforms in this area. I bought the pure badger to use as a travel brush, but I wound up buying some brushless cream instead when I was on vacation.
I am spoiled and I would buy another silvertip tomorrow ... if I weren't a Penny-Pincher.