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Gonna try the R41 2011 steep angle approach. Any helpful hints?

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I agree… like i said before (or maybe in a different thread?), it took me several committed periods of effort before I finally got the "steep" R41 method under control. Now I love it, but it really did take some effort and concentration. So I'm not surprised that you aren't getting it to click immediately. It does, though, sound like you are making improvements and heading the right direction.

Whether you stop posting about your experiences for a week is up to you, but I can tell you that I certainly have been enjoying your posts on this subject. If you keep posting, maybe we can help and keep making suggestions / giving input, too.
 
Whether you stop posting about your experiences for a week is up to you, but I can tell you that I certainly have been enjoying your posts on this subject. If you keep posting, maybe we can help and keep making suggestions / giving input, too.
This helps me feel that my struggles are not just fodder for sick jokes or stories for the sadistic element out there. Even if they do feed some dark and perverted purpose, I now feel better and even somewhat holy about it. Tune in tomorrow...

:cowboy:
 
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Man, I am so sorry to read that... I commend your fortitude to continue on after recovering, I doubt I would be as steadfast in experimenting if I was getting raw.
 
My 3rd attempt was much better thanks to everyone on this thread. I got DFS and no irritation!

my changes:
1. New blade. Switched from gillette silver blue to Feather
2. Short strokes 1/2" - 3/4"
3. Increased speed ( velocity). I think this had the greatest impact in getting a very decent shave.
4. Not so worried about "no pressure". This technique does require ever so little pressure to make it work, but increased velocity naturally increased the pressure.

all of the above is MHO and not based on scientific fact, but on speculation.
 
My 3rd attempt was much better thanks to everyone on this thread. I got DFS and no irritation!

my changes:
1. New blade. Switched from gillette silver blue to Feather
2. Short strokes 1/2" - 3/4"
3. Increased speed ( velocity). I think this had the greatest impact in getting a very decent shave.
4. Not so worried about "no pressure". This technique does require ever so little pressure to make it work, but increased velocity naturally increased the pressure.

all of the above is MHO and not based on scientific fact, but on speculation.

Congrats! Sounds like you really got it right this time! :thumbup1:
 
Very informative discussion!! You guys have a vast knowledge and willing to share. Even with the occasional sadist joke. Looking forward to keeping up with this thread as tomorrow Im attempting my first steep angle shave.
 
My face seems to be improving well enough for me to try another shave tomorrow.
I just thought a little about your experiment and suddenly realized I have never tried a really shallow angle with R41. Tried it yesterday with DE89 first and have got better than usual shave with it. Next step I will try shallow angle with R41 2013.

In general shallow angle sounds strange for me as far as the blade touches skin first, not the comb (it goes after blade). So why do we need a comb or slant bar and feel difference between them if they go after the blade and play no action actually? With shallow angle the comb should be positioned above the blade, not below as it is now...

I feel here is some confusion and I have to try it other way :))))
 
I think this steep angle thing might be starting to be a little bit out of control ...

First, the steep angle DOES NOT work well with all razors, in fact, it DOES NOT work well with most razors. Especially mild razors, which allow a lot less angle play. How can one expect a mild razor to work well with a steep angle if the razor's design does not permit that kind of angle, to begin with? Obviously it is not surprising that it doesn't work that well.

A steep angle used with a razor that does not allow such thing leads to tugging and other things that will make the shave feel uncomfortable. Was it the razor's fault? The steep angle's fault? No ... just use the razor properly, and it will work.

The steep angle requires a certain blade exposure, blade gap and a certain head geometry that not all razors have.

This is not directed at anyone in specific, just a warning, steep angle IS NOT the solution for all shaving related problems, and it DOES NOT work with all razors.
 
Would a greater gap on a milder rasor like a DE89, achieved by shiming, make it able to allow for the steep angle shave? Or, is this ability more a function of the flatter cap on the R41? I'm wondering this in the context of an adjustable; does increasing the gap without changing the curvature allow for a workable steep angle shave?
 
IMHO, the blade exposure is more important than blade gap. And head geometry and/or the way it bends the blade.

The Merkur Progress doesn't have much blade exposure, and it is in fact a fairly mild razor, but the way it bends the blade makes it work extremely well using a steep angle.
 
This is an update on today's attempt at a steep-angle shave with the R41. I want back to my original setup (R41 2011, Russian Perma-Sharp blade, MWF soap and Muhle 23mm STF V2 brush) with an excellent prep and lather. I now had two days of stubble to deal with.

I needed to take time off yesterday to let my face heal. The irritation and rawness left by Sunday's shave was gone this morning. Looking back, the first three days of my steep angle shaving were largely spent trying to find an approach that worked for me. Frankly, I tried too many things at once. I felt that the advice I was getting was either fairly detailed and specific, or of the more general "let intuition be your guide" types.

Since I had tried following the "specifics" path without success, I tried the "intuitive" side today. I've had so much experience with the R41, this felt more comfortable and natural to me. And it worked much better this morning. Before continuing, I do not mean to imply that one approach is better than the other. Both came from very experienced and highly respected shavers who I have followed for a long time. I think my three years of nearly-exclusive use of the R41 have made the intuitive approach more natural to me. Perhaps newer shavers would value the specific approach. Does anyone have a feel for this?

I tried to maintain a steep angle. Today I noticed for the first time the feel of the tooth-comb against my skin, and I had the "Aha" moment that my mentors talked about. I tried to maintain that feel throughout the shave, and I got my best results to date--an all-over DFS with no irritation at all--and I mean none!

The results are the most encouraging to date. I know that closeness will come with practice, and i am now confident I'm on the right track. Tune in tomorrow. I think I'll have this down in 2-3 more days.
______________________
 
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I think this steep angle thing might be starting to be a little bit out of control ...

First, the steep angle DOES NOT work well with all razors, in fact, it DOES NOT work well with most razors. Especially mild razors, which allow a lot less angle play. How can one expect a mild razor to work well with a steep angle if the razor's design does not permit that kind of angle, to begin with? Obviously it is not surprising that it doesn't work that well.

A steep angle used with a razor that does not allow such thing leads to tugging and other things that will make the shave feel uncomfortable. Was it the razor's fault? The steep angle's fault? No ... just use the razor properly, and it will work.

The steep angle requires a certain blade exposure, blade gap and a certain head geometry that not all razors have.

This is not directed at anyone in specific, just a warning, steep angle IS NOT the solution for all shaving related problems, and it DOES NOT work with all razors.

+1
 
I tried to maintain a steep angle. Today I noticed for the first time the feel of the tooth-comb against my skin, and I had the "Aha" moment that my mentors talked about. I tried to maintain that feel throughout the shave, and I got my best results to date--an all-over DFS with no irritation at all--and I mean none!

The results are the most encouraging to date. I know that closeness will come with practice, and i am now confident I'm on the right track. Tune in tomorrow. I think I'll have this down in 2-3 more days.
______________________

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :clap:

This is what I've been waiting to hear. Just stick with it now for a little longer, and it should start to really click for you.
 
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