Ark "burnishing" question

[cmh737]

I'm going to be getting a Surgical Black Ark soon, and have one question about "burnishing" the surface. Once flat, it's my understanding that you have to run a lot of metal across the stone (knives, razors, chisels, what have you) till shiny. My question is: do you do this on a dry stone, or use whichever lubricant you going to use for honing (i.e. soap, mineral oil, honing oil, etc)?

Thanks

 

[SliceOfLife]

Breaking in an Arkansas is the process of using it. Some guys polish on abrasive paper, but I don't trust that the result is the same. Running metal over it dry will just clog it up and require you to coarse lap the stone again to clear it out.

 

[David]

I burnish under running water with a kitchen cleaver or chisel. When I'm burnishing I use much more pressure than I would if I were actually trying to sharpen the cleaver or chisel, but be careful because too much pressure can scratch the stone. When I think it's ready I switch to my oil of choice (for me that's smiths honing solution) and try a razor on it. I've lapped and burnished around 20-25 trans or black Arks and have found that burnishing under running water speeds up the process. Ymmv, but definitely don't do it dry.

 

[Alum of Potash]

I was wondering if the question had to do with burnishing rather than sharpening the steel edge. This is just my sense of things, but a polished black hard Arkansas can lead to a burnishing effect on the steel edge, leading to the polished stone's perceived fineness.

 

[cmh737]

Thanks for the input gents. I finally placed an order for a black Ark (8 x 3 x 1/2) last week and it has arrived. So keep running steel across it till it gets shiny? Looks like it's going to take a while.

 

[ObsceneJester]

I burnish under running water with a kitchen cleaver or chisel. When I'm burnishing I use much more pressure than I would if I were actually trying to sharpen the cleaver or chisel, but be careful because too much pressure can scratch the stone. When I think it's ready I switch to my oil of choice (for me that's smiths honing solution) and try a razor on it. I've lapped and burnished around 20-25 trans or black Arks and have found that burnishing under running water speeds up the process. Ymmv, but definitely don't do it dry.

I have to say this is pretty sound advice. I've done two Arks. One with the described method and the other with w/d sandpaper. They both have their problems but I find it is easier with the way described. As people say, YMMV.

 

[eKretz]

I think that you'll probably find that David used wet/dry or loose grit SiC to get the Ark polished up, and then switched to the chisel with water just for burnishing - a method I also use and which works very well.

 

[cmh737]

I think that you'll probably find that David used wet/dry or loose grit SiC to get the Ark polished up, and then switched to the chisel with water just for burnishing - a method I also use and which works very well.

OK, so start with the w/d sandpaper till polished, then switch to the water part? What grit sandpaper do you recommend?

 

[Jayber Crow]

I would say you don't need to use W/D or Sic if your stone is flat. If you got it from dan's it probably is.
Then burnish with some steel or a razor, but I'd use oil. Norton's, Dans or Wd-40.
Just a couple or three drops should do it.

 

[eKretz]

It depends on how flat and also how rough the stone is to begin with really (whether wet/dry or loose grit polishing/lapping is needed). Personally I'd want at least an 800 grit level finish before I get at it with the chisel. Either oil or water can be used to do the burnishing - water is faster.

 

[kcb5150]

I went to a well worn sheet of 3000 on mine followed by dressing it with another glassy stone followed by burnishing.

 

[eKretz]

I've done quite a few variations now. As long as the stone is brought to at least a fair level before burnishing, the burnishing makes most of the difference up. But again, I'd take it to at least 800 before burnishing.

I did one a while back with 1500 loose grit, then 3k wet/dry and then slurry lapped with a Shapton 8k and then the same with a Suehiro 20k, followed by chisel burnishing. That one puts on a razor edge that shaves just about the same as the 800 grit lap and chisel burnishing I did recently. But it cuts considerably slower when knife sharpening. It seems that once a certain threshold is reached the difference in feel is indiscernible - on my face at least.

 

[kcb5150]

Mine still seems to be improving and it has been a lot of razors now. It's like a reflecting pool at this point. I would put the edge it gives up against any western rock I have come across.

 

[kcb5150]

I have a tough beard from my father's side and horribly sensitive skin from my mother's so my face is a lie detector for edges and shaving technique. I can't get away with much. I watch some shaving videos on yt and think guys must have skin like a rhino...

 

[eKretz]

Yeah my skin is fairly resilient except my neck under the chin. That's my main arbiter for edges - ATG there is rough if the edge isn't really good.

 

[kcb5150]

If an edge is not good I either end up looking like a boiled lobster or get weepers. I try to get an edge that can get it done in two passes comfortably.

 

[cmh737]

The black Ark I got is dead flat out of the box. Just out of curiosity, I spent about 45 minutes running a "beater" razor on it (with some Smith's honing solution) to see if I could at least notice any difference of appearance on the stone. None. It looks exactly the same; so I suppose much, much more work needed, and with heavier steel. However, one curious observation, is that the stone felt very smooth, even though it's not shiny. So it begs the question: will it be an effective razor finisher already? I guess my real question is, if the Ark is already flat and feels smooth, what is the reason for getting it shiny?

 

[Sando]

All this Ark talk got me to wanting one too. I picked up an 8x3 Black from Natural Whetstones, the price was right. It's not flat out of the box and it has a grainy feel like the 1200 grit it's described as. I have some SIC enroute to fix that.

YouTubes and reading here tells me that it needs to be shiny to be effective. Something to do with the makeup of the stone itself. It doesn't have garnets like coticules so it doesn't actually remove material.

 

[kcb5150]

Oh they do, but not in the same way as many other rocks... There is a lot of burnishing going on but there is steel removal.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Being shiny actually works against it being effective, in that its effect is removing material. The reason we try to wear it in and get that shiny effect, is that for our purposes as long as it removes material fast enough to avoid deteriorating the edge and reasonably evenly across the blade face, which a good Arkansas Stone will almost always do if it's clean, we can get higher levels of polish on our edges, with a well-worn-in stone.

How your stone is now as you describe it, is actually ideal for using it in many applications with other tools. It's just not what razor honers are looking for.