Bevel Angles: How much is too much? [Or, is it all Chicken?]

[Lmarkow]

The subject often comes up when discussing honing with tape or bread-knifing a razor for "repair"/restoration. I poked around a bit and read that the bevel angle should be between ~14* and ~18*. Some experienced folks apparently have preferences for their razors' angles. Me? I'm not so sure.

So I asked @Doc226 to help me figure out if a razor's bevel angle is something I would notice or care about. I sent Alfredo 2 Gold Dollars (#66) that he had previously removed the shoulders and honed for me as part of some other bogus test I made up to get more of Doc's sweet edges in house. One razor is marked with a red triangle on the scales, the other has a red square.

Doc returned the razors to me the other day. One razor has an 18.3* bevel angle, the other has a 26.3* angle (5 layers of tape). I'd post pics, but I'm pretty sure we all know what these razors look like. Thanks, Alfredo, again for playing along.

Over the next couple of days I'll use these two razors to see if I can figure out which one has the "bad" shaving angle. I'll keep the shaving routines consistent (e.g., same prep, cream, AS, etc.), but I'm not sure if I'll use both razors in the same shave. I'm not fond of handling razors unnecessarily.

I'm guessing that I'll actually prefer the razor with the larger angle, but really, I have no clue what to expect. I'll report back here as I use the razors.

Predictions?

Thanks in advance for reading along.

 

[Guestabc]

Will be following along with interest, Larry

 

[mycarver]

Of the 4 I just built I can tell a difference . And when I shuffle between the other 8 there is a huge difference that I'm aware of immediately. I like the smaller angles. Seems to make sense to me anyway.

 

[6Cuda6]

Watching this one as well

 

[David]

Subscribed!

 

[Jnatcat]

It's funny you mention this, I have several ZY practice razors that I played around with using tape, I honed one without tape and the other with first one layer then 2, 3 and finally 4 and i prefer the edge with 0-1 layers it seemed the more tape i used the harsher the shave, i tried to figure out the angle with a bevel calc that Doc sent me but the numbers made no sense.

 

[buca3152]

15 to 20 is the "acceptable" range. I think 20 degrees or less is fine. Anything over will not feel.right. one razor.came to mind. A 30 degree wade i had. Shaved like a dog. I honestly dont notice any difference with all the razors I have. From gds to japanese westerns to vintages. But the much higher angle over 20 degrees i think you will notice.

 

[GolFisHunt]

I'm interested in your perceived results, but am completely enamoured with your methodology. Come up with a hair brained scheme to pique Alfredo's interest and relish the edges.

 

[Steve56]

My stock 208 Gold Dollars are very similar, 18 and low tenths degrees after correcting geometry and initial honing. I can tell the difference between an 18.x degree Gold Dollar and a 16.x degree razor except on exceptional hones. The 18 degree razor is a milder edge than a 16 degree razor.

I admire your methodology, if for nothing than to get Alfredo to hone Gold Dollars for you - lol. Just kidding, having two identical razors honed well by the same person at different angles is well thought out.

The very first test I give a new jnat finisher after flattening/smoothing is to hone a well-prepped Gold Dollar with its 18+ degree bevel. If I get silent HHT root-in or -out on the steep bevel, that hone is almost always a keeper.

I'm waiting for results!

Cheers, Steve

 

[Polarbeard]

Go Larry Go!

 

[SliceOfLife]

Good luck with your test. For me, yes angle matters... But it relates to grind, steel, and finish. One razor will shave great at 19* with a extremely fine finish. Another won't. One will shave great at 11* off a particular coticule, but another stone leaves the edge too fragile. 15-17* seem the most versatile angles.

 

[Doc226]

Get posting with the results

 

[mycarver]

Yes . We do know what gold dollars look like but pics would be nice.
As it's always said " didn't happen without pics,,,"

 

[Lmarkow]

First up was the the red triangle. I'll be using AoS lemon cream and ASB, fyi. The lather was perfect. As I was shaving N/S I thought for sure this was a perfect edge. It felt and shaved great. My second pass is S/N, which was perhaps a bit less comfortable, but still a really nice shave. My third pass is also S/N, with mostly water/barely any lather, stretching from the top (i.e., shaving towards my fingers). This one felt great.

So what do I conclude? Nothing. I'll need to shave with the triangle razor tomorrow to even begin to venture a guess.

Thanks for your interest, guys. And thanks for the really nice shave, Doc.

 

[mycarver]

After 24 hrs perceptions change. I know you said you don't want to handle razors unnecessarily (?) but we're talking GDs here .
My personal preference is using 2 at the same time. Couple of strokes with one ,,, then a few with the other . Back and forth . Then cross and against the grain in the same sequence.
Then the conditions, beard, soap lather technique etc are all the same to make an A&B comparison and not have 24+ hrs expire. That way I don't have to kid myself thinking I remember exactly how good ,bad, indifferent the shave went compared to what I'm doing now.
I've done chisel tests for magazines and I used the same method .
And yes,, I do realize this is just for fun.

 

[Brianskeet]

What a cool idea and test. I will be watching for sure.

 

[Lmarkow]

I don't like to shave with two razors because I don't like to deviate my routine while shaving. There is safety in the routines we create to handle an unprotected edge. Two razors means more hand offs and more opportunities for mishap.

Additionally, I think the post shave feel is part of the shave test. If I've used two razors, which am I feeling two hours later?

I recognize, though, that the immediate side by side comparison of the feeling of steel to face would be better tested using both razors in the same shave. And I may do this yet, if I have to flip a coin.

Again, I appreciate the gang's interest. Enjoy your day, please.

 

[mycarver]

Well safety maybe if you've been shaving a month or so . Setting a razor down and picking one up shouldn't rattle anyone here too badly Id guess .

And post shave or within 2 hrs if the shave is done reasonably well should be pretty much the same. I wouldn't think a test to see if you can determine a difference between edges hinges on how your face feels in 2 hrs.
Mine feels the same if I use a straight or a DE . That's not a comparison .
I still tend to think, as any comparison should be side by side , is more informative than waiting a day , a week or a month . If you want a viable result.
But as I said I do realize this is just for fun . I like fun. But there are things I do like to know .
Truth be told I think it's fun to use even more than two razors .
And I do believe in handling them more than necessary!
That's why most of us do this!
Otherwise,buy one and call it done .
And don't mess with modifying GDs.
Now that ultimately is unnecessary!

 

[buca3152]

Cool. Looking forward to.your results. I think i know what they will be but that means nothing. Lets see tomorrow!

 

[eKretz]

I do A/B tests all the time by shaving with two different razors at once. Basically, you shave one side of your face with razor A and one side with razor B - then it's easy to tell the results and/or if one side gives a closer shave or is tender or gets razor burn or irritation a day later.