THEHTGAM/PPF/PH0ENIX/D0UGLAS/H0DGES/FRANCES Thread

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

I wonder if our resident blade geek @ShavingByTheNumbers could throw some light on the subject.
Are you there Grant?

I'm here. I haven't finished making measurements of the Astra SP due to the addition of mass measurements, so I bought a couple extra packs to measure and take care of that, but I have measured the other dimensions. I've measured 24 Astra SP samples so far, so I can safely give you good thickness and width measurements. The Astra SP has an average thickness of 0.090 mm, which is within the normal range for blades, but on the low end, and an average width of 21.94 mm, which is slightly below my current running average across different blades. With the possible exception of a little more blade flexibility that some users might like with the Astra SP in the PAA Bakelite Slant due to the blade thickness being on the thinner side, I don't think that we can attribute the Astra SPs nice qualities to anything special with respect to dimensions. If we look at our ShaveWiki table for blades, we find that it's considered one of the smoother blades with a user rating for smoothness of 8.4. Sharpness comes in at 7.7, which is not our lowest or highest rating so far among blades. I'm willing to bet that there are other blades that are just as good or better than the Astra SP with the PAA Bakelite Slant, but the Astra SP is such a popular blade that it gets a lot of attention. It's not fair to others.

 

[NDM63]

I'm here. I haven't finished making measurements of the Astra SP due to the addition of mass measurements, so I bought a couple extra packs to measure and take care of that, but I have measured the other dimensions. I've measured 24 Astra SP samples so far, so I can safely give you good thickness and width measurements. The Astra SP has an average thickness of 0.090 mm, which is within the normal range for blades, but on the low end, and an average width of 21.94 mm, which is slightly below my current running average across different blades. With the possible exception of a little more blade flexibility that some users might like with the Astra SP in the PAA Bakelite Slant due to the blade thickness being on the thinner side, I don't think that we can attribute the Astra SPs nice qualities to anything special with respect to dimensions. If we look at our ShaveWiki table for blades, we find that it's considered one of the smoother blades with a user rating for smoothness of 8.4. Sharpness comes in at 7.7, which is not our lowest or highest rating so far among blades. I'm willing to bet that there are other blades that are just as good or better than the Astra SP with the PAA Bakelite Slant, but the Astra SP is such a popular blade that it gets a lot of attention. It's not fair to others.

Any suggestion from your research as to which blades may provide similar results in the PAA Bakelite slant? Thanks in advance.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Any suggestion from your research as to which blades may provide similar results in the PAA Bakelite slant? Thanks in advance.

I'll try. We only have six blades right now in the Comprehensive DE Razor Blade Data Table, and blade measurements are yet to come with more blades, too, in the future. The closest blade in that table with respect to dimensions and user ratings is the Gillette 7 O'Clock Super Stainless. User ratings are similar, and even though I haven't reported measurements yet, the thickness and width are similar to the Astra SP. The Gillette blade might be similar in the PAA Bakelite Slant.

 

[matwho]

I'll try. We only have six blades right now in the Comprehensive DE Razor Blade Data Table, and blade measurements are yet to come with more blades, too, in the future. The closest blade in that table with respect to dimensions and user ratings is the Gillette 7 O'Clock Super Stainless. User ratings are similar, and even though I haven't reported measurements yet, the thickness and width are similar to the Astra SP. The Gillette blade might be similar in the PAA Bakelite Slant.

The Astra blades work great for me but I haven't tried the 7 O'clock Super Stainless. I have some so I will try one tomorrow and report back how it shaves in the PAA Slant. Polsilver SI blades are what I use in most razors but they were very harsh in the PAA along with Feathers.

 

[matwho]

I used the Gillette 7 O'clock Super Stainless in the PAA bakelite slant this morning and I think @ShavingByTheNumbers is correct. The shave was as smooth and close as the Astra SP. The whole finding the right blade for a razor might instead be finding the right size blade for a razor. If @ShavingByTheNumbers includes blade sizes in his data table then I think you would be able to try blades of the same size and get the same results. If users reported which blades worked best in which razors and the results showed that the best blades for an individual razor were approximately the same size then you could have an accurate chart for which blades are best for which razor.

 

[NDM63]

I used the Gillette 7 O'clock Super Stainless in the PAA bakelite slant this morning and I think @ShavingByTheNumbers is correct. The shave was as smooth and close as the Astra SP. The whole finding the right blade for a razor might instead be finding the right size blade for a razor. If @ShavingByTheNumbers includes blade sizes in his data table then I think you would be able to try blades of the same size and get the same results. If users reported which blades worked best in which razors and the results showed that the best blades for an individual razor were approximately the same size then you could have an accurate chart for which blades are best for which razor.

This is excellent! We are reducing this to measurement and science. Me like! Did you use the green or yellow Seven O'Clock and are they the same?!

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

I used the Gillette 7 O'clock Super Stainless in the PAA bakelite slant this morning and I think @ShavingByTheNumbers is correct. The shave was as smooth and close as the Astra SP. The whole finding the right blade for a razor might instead be finding the right size blade for a razor. If @ShavingByTheNumbers includes blade sizes in his data table then I think you would be able to try blades of the same size and get the same results. If users reported which blades worked best in which razors and the results showed that the best blades for an individual razor were approximately the same size then you could have an accurate chart for which blades are best for which razor.

@matwho: YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!! You took the words right out of my mouth. What you wrote is what I was thinking, but I didn't want to get ahead of myself. The database is just in its early stages. There's a lot of data to be collected and published. I haven't yet published any dimensions yet, but I'll get there. Columns for blade width, thickness, etc., have been ready and waiting for quite a while now.

You are the first test case for using data (user ratings and measured dimensions) from the Comprehensive DE Razor Blade Data Table in trying to find the most similar blade to another, and I'm really happy that it worked! It's amazing! I couldn't have asked for a better outcome. I'm so happy that it worked for you. Thanks so much for getting back to us on your experiment. I can only hope that we have more successful cases like yours in the future.

 

[NDM63]

@matwho: YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!! You took the words right out of my mouth. What you wrote is what I was thinking, but I didn't want to get ahead of myself. The database is just in its early stages. There's a lot of data to be collected and published. I haven't yet published any dimensions yet, but I'll get there. Columns for blade width, thickness, etc., have been ready and waiting for quite a while now.

You are the first test case for using data (user ratings and measured dimensions) from the Comprehensive DE Razor Blade Data Table in trying to find the most similar blade to another, and I'm really happy that it worked! It's amazing! I couldn't have asked for a better outcome. I'm so happy that it worked for you. Thanks so much for getting back to us on your experiment. I can only hope that we have more successful cases like yours in the future.

This is really good!! I've written quite a number of blade test reviews in specific razors so this is fascinating. Yet some razors just don't seem blade fussy. For example, almost anything I load in my Mergress, Wunderbar ,and Ikon X3, my Schone Italian seem to work Why do you think this is?

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

This is excellent! We are reducing this to measurement and science. Me like! Did you use the green or yellow Seven O'Clock and are they the same?!

The Gillette 7 O'Clock Super Stainless (green) is the one that @matwho used based on my recommendation. I haven't measured any Gillette 7 O'Clock SharpEdge (yellow) blade samples yet. That will come one day, along with gathering user ratings for the blade.

 

[NDM63]

The Gillette 7 O'Clock Super Stainless (green) is the one that @matwho used based on my recommendation. I haven't measured any Gillette 7 O'Clock SharpEdge (yellow) blade samples yet. That will come one day, along with gathering user ratings for the blade.

What about the edge itself, under a microscope? For example, the Croma can produce good shaves in my Mergress. In my Futur it became so uncomfortable after one shave that I threw it out!

 

[matwho]

@ShavingByTheNumbers I was a little skeptical about all of the sharpness and longevity data because it was all based on opinions based on using a blade in many different razors. I think that your study of a blades dimension and how it performs in certain razors will become your most useful data. Thank you for undertaking this task.

 

[NDM63]

@ShavingByTheNumbers I was a little skeptical about all of the sharpness and longevity data because it was all based on opinions based on using a blade in many different razors. I think that your study of a blades dimension and how it performs in certain razors will become your most useful data. Thank you for undertaking this task.

Yes three cheers to that, I appreciate it too!

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

This is really good!! I've written quite a number of blade test reviews in specific razors so this is fascinating. Yet some razors just don't seem blade fussy. For example, almost anything I load in my Mergress, Wunderbar ,and Ikon X3, my Schone Italian seem to work Why do you think this is?

I'm glad that you find this fascinating. I do, too! Regarding your question, I'm guessing that one of these two scenarios is happening for you:

1. Those razors have large enough blade spans such that changes in blade exposure (due to changes in blade width) are tolerated well by your face, which doesn't care too much about blade span from the safety guard
   
2. Those razors have small enough blade spans such that changes in blade exposure (due to changes in blade width) cause potentially larger performance differences, but your face prefers the smaller blade spans and can tolerate the larger or smaller blade exposures with the smaller blade spans

Those are my best guesses. I might be way off the mark.

@matwho brought up the issue of correlating blades to razors, which I thought about, too, but I hadn't figured how to address the issue to my satisfaction in the comprehensive blade table. My really long-term thinking is to keep going with blade ratings and dimensions and eventually get back to razor geometry analysis with respect to blade exposure, span, etc., which is where I started with all of this. The razor-blade combination is what matters, as you know so well, and it should matter differently to different guys. Some guys might like more or less blade exposure (due to blade width) or even blade flex (due to blade thickness) compared to other guys using the same razor, and some guys might prefer razors with smaller guard spans with blades causing a particular range of blade exposure (due to blade width), but no one has the information to figure this stuff out. That's where my blade measurements, user ratings surveys, and photo analysis come in.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Yes three cheers to that, I appreciate it too!

Thanks!

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

@ShavingByTheNumbers I was a little skeptical about all of the sharpness and longevity data because it was all based on opinions based on using a blade in many different razors. I think that your study of a blades dimension and how it performs in certain razors will become your most useful data. Thank you for undertaking this task.

You're welcome, @matwho. I'm always glad to win over skeptics. I anticipated that this would happen in time, not for you in particular, but in general. As more data is collected and we have more success stories, more guys will start using the comprehensive blade table. When someone uses the table on his own because it has my published dimensions and our B&B user ratings, I'll be really happy to hear that, especially if the table helps him solve his problem. Our experiment here has been a great success, but I had to offer the recommendation because the blade dimensions aren't published yet. When guys start using the table on their own because the information is there for a lot of blades, then I'll know that the table has "made it".

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

What about the edge itself, under a microscope? For example, the Croma can produce good shaves in my Mergress. In my Futur it became so uncomfortable after one shave that I threw it out!

Edge angles and honing could theoretically be measured and quantified, but that's out of my zone. Regarding the Croma, we could get user ratings and dimensions for it someday. If you used the same blade sample from one razor to another, then we can safely conclude that the razor-blade combination changed from good for you with the Mergress to bad for you with the Futur due to a change in only the razor. If you used different samples of the Croma blade with the two different razors, then there might have been differences in the edges and/or blade widths that could account for some or most of the performance differences.

 

[NDM63]

Edge angles and honing could theoretically be measured and quantified, but that's out of my zone. Regarding the Croma, we could get user ratings and dimensions for it someday. If you used the same blade sample from one razor to another, then we can safely conclude that the razor-blade combination changed from good for you with the Mergress to bad for you with the Futur due to a change in only the razor. If you used different samples of the Croma blade with the two different razors, then there might have been differences in the edges and/or blade widths that could account for some or most of the performance differences.

Yes, some razors and blades just don't get along! But some have reported that under a microscope there's a lot of differences in the edges and finishes from one blade to the next. Have you ever spoke to quality control at a blade factory?

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Yes, some razors and blades just don't get along! But some have reported that under a microscope there's a lot of differences in the edges and finishes from one blade to the next. Have you ever spoke to quality control at a blade factory?

No, I haven't spoken to anybody at a factory, just you guys here. I think that user ratings for sharpness and smoothness are valuable whether we had edge measurements or not. Edge measurements would be great, but in their absence, we can at least gather opinions and use them.

 

[djw19]

Hello Gents,

I'm wondering if anyone has experience with both of these soaps and if they are similar in scent. I acquired a sample of PAA's Tombstone and yet to try GTB. Basically, I don't want to bother with GTB if they are basically the same thing. Based on the notes, it would seem they would be very similar.

Thanks for the help!

 

[nwohio]

Wish I could help but only have GTB .