2011 R41 - The Quest Achieved!

[davidsilva]

@mjclark, great report! I am a bit surprised, but definitely consider this good news. My group of favorite razors is expanding, but the Asylum RX is near the top! And this is with a ProGuard!
Thanks for your continued efforts Marcus!

 

[mjclark]

@mjclark, great report! I am a bit surprised, but definitely consider this good news. My group of favorite razors is expanding, but the Asylum RX is near the top! And this is with a ProGuard!
Thanks for your continued efforts Marcus!

Honestly David, I'm as surprised as you are!
After a full 36hrs the shave from the Asylum Rx + Pro Super is still as close as that from the 2011 R41.
Who knew?

No other razor has achieved this so far.

But the 2011 still felt nicer on the face...

 

[petrakos]

i am not surprised as a SE safety razor blade is more rigid than a DE blade and especially if this blade is feather super pro
the impressive is how a modest DE razor just with its design and geometry achieve this level
also is my impression that straight razor is not something sacred or metaphysic

 

[petrakos]

continuing my last post i also add that straight razor isn't panacea for the best possible shave
what needed is the use of the favorite tool that everybody has and maximize its use

 

[mjclark]

i would like to add and why not suggest if it is possible to be tested Roedter 1909 german razor which is supposed to be more aggressive than muhle r41 2011

Based solely on this quote I acquired a Roedter 1909.
I didn't know much about it but they've been around for over 3 years now.
It seems that there was an even worse day than usual at the FaTip QC department and a batch of top caps went dreadfully dreadfully wrong, coming out much narrower (17mm) and much flatter than the normal OEM cap.
This created a Razor with huge blade exposure and a nearly flat blade, generating some shocking blade flex and also some serious aggression.
It has been described as a FaTip on steroids.

According to the Dutch shavingsociety forum where these razors were first discussed, it was a batch of 500 razors and these were unloaded on the German supplier Scharfeladen - some ended up with the Dutch supplier Barbieri Di Figaro too - who marketed them as the most aggressive DE razor of all time.
3 years later on, they still have some for sale so here it is:

I've shaved with it and it can be rough and bitey, ATG shaving is hideous and blade alignment is rubbish.
BUT with a light touch, the resultant shave is a marble-like BBS++ with absolutely no irritation.
And of course it has a very wide range of effective angles, so the Roedter 1909 is very manouverable around the jawline.

So obviously the Roedter 1909 has bigger blade exposure and blade gap than the 2011 R41, and a fierce blade feel, but this doesn't necessarily mean a longer lasting shave, since the geometry of the cap and guard in the Roedter is just an accident (and certainly feels like it!) whereas with the 2011 R41 the geometry is the result of some very careful German engineering.

Roedter1909/2011 R41 shave off to follow...

 

[mjclark]

So I shaved the left side of my face with the Roedter 1909 and the right side with the 2011 R41.
Obviously BBS both sides.
The Roedter has an even bigger range of effective angles than the 2011 so felt very manouverable and did excellently in the curves of the jawline, but so much blade flex that ATG shaving feels hazardous.
Surprisingly, on 36hrs growth both razors felt equally smooth (perhaps the Astra blades helped) and the Roedter really does make the 2011 feel like a Mild and well mannered razor.
It's the same effect as if you're driving at 120mph and come down to 80, it feels slow by comparison but it's fast by normal standards.

The 2011 gave its predictable and lovely waxy BBS, the Roedter gave a glassy marble-like BBS and 12hrs on from the shave there's nothing in it between the two razors.

Of course the Roedter felt so much more aggressive, and the 2011 felt so much better made and better balanced.

In terms of actual closeness of shave there's no difference yet - let's see what happens over 24hrs...

 

[mjclark]

24hrs after the shave, there's still very little in it for closeness between the 2011 R41 and Roedter 1909.
Perhaps the Roedter 1909 has shaved marginally closer and the 2011 R41 definitely generates pricklier stubble.
And of course the 2011 R41 is just a nicer razor all round

So ranked in terms of shave longevity -
Roedter 1909
2011 R41
Asylum Rx
Alumigoose v1
Shavecraft Tech
Vision 2000

Truth is for the first 24hrs there's very little difference in the quality of the shave from any of them.

All of these razors can give a fantastic, powerful and long lasting shave with minimal irritation.

Comparing them like this it's clear that the design and geometry of the 2011 R41 make it a work of genius!

 

[petrakos]

why don't test charcoal L3 and PAA DOC Evo as some claim is even better than muhle r41 2011?

 

[mjclark]

why don't test charcoal L3 and PAA DOC Evo as some claim is even better than muhle r41 2011?

Ha ha - send me those razors and I will gladly test them

 

[petrakos]

why not ask them from pbrmhl since he referred to them in several postd
hi hi

 

[pbrmhl]

Ha ha - send me those razors and I will gladly test them

I've already offered to loan the PAA razor to @CzechCzar, and don't want to be without both. Besides, Marcus, aren't you in the UK? What would shipping cost from Seattle? I know you were joking, but I don't mind sharing with trustworthy friends...

 

[mjclark]

I've already offered to loan the PAA razor to @CzechCzar, and don't want to be without both. Besides, Marcus, aren't you in the UK? What would shipping cost from Seattle? I know you were joking, but I don't mind sharing with trustworthy friends...

Yes I'm in UK so insured postage would probably be about $20
Is the PAA DOC Evo comparable to the 2011 R41?
And the Charcoal L3?
I see that they're both very aggressive...

 

[pbrmhl]

Yes I'm in UK so insured postage would probably be about $20
Is the PAA DOC Evo really comparable to the 2011 R41?
And the Charcoal L3?

I haven't seen anybody make those comparisons but I'm open minded...

Yes, my face finds both the Charcoal L3 and the PAA DOC Evolution comparable to the R41 2011 (and the Ikon Shavecraft Tech), but with a better blade-forward feel, and a closer, longer-lasting result, than either the R41 or the Tech. They are my two favorite aggressive DEs. I'm having trouble finding playing time for my ATT H2, Wolfman .74mm, FaTip, Le Coq cage comb, etc.

 

[mjclark]

Yes, my face finds both the Charcoal L3 and the PAA DOC Evolution comparable to the R41 2011 (and the Ikon Shavecraft Tech), but with a better blade-forward feel, and a closer, longer-lasting result, than either the R41 or the Tech. They are my two favorite aggressive DEs.

That is very interesting indeed!
We clearly enjoy similar characteristics in a DE - I've put the PAA DOC Evo and the Charcoal L3 on my list now

 

[davidsilva]

You guys are such a bad ( good ) influence![emoji79][emoji15][emoji106] I had to hide my credit card from myself!!!

 

[pbrmhl]

You guys are such a bad ( good ) influence![emoji79][emoji15][emoji106] I had to hide my credit card from myself!!!

My 2017 restraint is much easier with the Charcoal Level 3 and PAA DOC Evolution, David. I'm now just enjoying the ride. Save your credit card--when I get my PAA back from @CzechCzar, I'll send it to you for a spin!

 

[davidsilva]

[emoji41][emoji106][emoji120] Many thanks for your offer Scott!!! I accept!

 

[mjclark]

Very very interested to hear how the Evolution shapes up.

I'd also love to know how the Barbasol Floating Head compares with the 2011 R41 and Roedter 1909.

 

[pbrmhl]

All this R41 talk sent me back to my 2011 today! It had been a couple of weeks, and I'd almost forgotten how great this razor is. Just as close and long-lasting as my other aggressives, but with less tugging and a more subtle blade feel. Truly a masterpiece. I just wish Muhle would bring back the 2011 version, and make it in stainless or aluminum...

 

[mjclark]

Truly a masterpiece. I just wish Muhle would bring back the 2011 version, and make it in stainless or aluminum...

I absolutely agree, the 2011 R41 is indeed a masterpiece of geometry.
An aluminium version would be outstanding.

I tried the Kai blade today - reports that it works well in the R41 proved to be true here in Devon:

And, as previously discussed, the Kai blade is unique in that it feels completely rigid in the 2011 (making it feel more like the Shavecraft Tech).

We've established that the Kais aren't any thicker than the Personnas, and they're made of similar steel so I can't really explain why they should behave any different but they really do feel completely rigid, changing the performance of the R41 noticeably.
I can't really explain why this should be.

And guess what? It was a fantastic shave!